Poll: Journalistic Ethics (AKA Death photo on New York Post cover)

Recommended Videos

Smeatza

New member
Dec 12, 2011
934
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
The bottom line is that one picture is no way near enough evidence to make accurate judgements on any parties involved. And by doing so you are guilty of the same sensationalist behaviour that led the newspaper to print the headline "DOOMED" on said photo.
Hardly, I'm judging the action, not the person, I don't know the photographer, and I'm not going to pretend I do, but we are all judged by our actions.


If the first thought going through your head in this situation is 'huh, better get a picture of this'...

Well.
It doesn't matter whether you are judging the action or person, you do not have sufficient evidence to do so.

Perhaps the first thought going through his head was "huh, well it's too late to help but at least I can make a record of this event"

Like I've said the photo could have been taken from 50 metres away and zoomed in, meaning the photographer could do nothing but take a photo.

Your condemnation of this man appeals to the emotions and is blind to the many different possibilities of the situation.
Therefore it is sensationalist.
 

AnarchistFish

New member
Jul 25, 2011
1,500
0
0
itt people not reading article

No way he could have saved him when the train was that close at that point and he could've endangered himself.
 

Spade Lead

New member
Nov 9, 2009
1,042
0
0
capper42 said:
I agree with this completely. It's not the photo itself that's the problem, but the way it's been used by the paper. Had they come up with a more serious sounding headline (I don't know what, but then I'm not a paid journalist). DOOMED sounds almost comical, and it comes across like they're making light of the photo.

It's hard to condemn the photographer too much. These guys have their cameras out and ready almost all of the time, and it takes about half a second to take a photo. Subway trains move quickly, even as they come into a station, and we don't know the length of time between when the guy was pushed and when the photo was taken. On what seems to be a relatively empty platform, people may have been standing a fair distance away, and it'd take a few seconds to realise what's happened and move to help the guy. Not to mention that some "disturbed" guy who had just shoved a man in front of a train was presumably still standing nearby.
Technically, and I use that term in the most literal sense, a good journalist documents, but never interferes. That came from my high school Journalism class. That said, the photographer did his job, and the newspaper (if you can call it that) just took advantage of an amazing picture of the last seconds of this poor man's life, and made a shitty caption.

Had I been there, I would have taken the picture, then tried to stop the guy who pushed him, because obviously he is in it to off someone, and I don't want to get pushed in front of the train while trying to save the first guy.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
3,782
0
0
Looks to me as though the New York Post is the American version of the british Sun or Daily Mirror newspaper/fish and chip wrapping.

Yeah the "DOOMED" at the bottom sends this cover flying into 'tacky and disrespectful' territory.

And now something to lighten the mood.

 

Saregon

Yes.. Swooping is bad.
May 21, 2012
315
0
0
I don't really have a problem with the picture, it's the same type of picture that wins prizes with Picture of the Year and such all the time, they are very often pictures of some kind of suffering, and this picture, while depicting a horrible situation, is merely a snippet of life, and the photographer was just there. I also don't think he was necessarily wrong taking the picture, as we can't see how fast the train is moving, and we don't know what his reaction to seeing this was (except for taking the picture, obviously). There's also the whole thing about journalists being supposed to document, not interfere.

My problem is with the extremely sensationalist headline, it sounds like the tagline for a bad movie. "Pushed in front of a train, this man is about to die." DOOMED, in cinemas now. It's in very poor taste, and designed to cash in on that poor man's tragic demise.

Also, to the people mentioning that there's no one visible in the several feet of station visible, there are a few factors that might be responsible. They might be worried about being pushed themselves, or being dragged down by the desperate man. Also, there is a phenomenon in social psychology called The Bystander effect, which basically says that the more people are witnessing an event, the less likely they are to intervene.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect, Hogg & Vaughan; Social Psychology (2011)
 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
0
0
Smeatza said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
The bottom line is that one picture is no way near enough evidence to make accurate judgements on any parties involved. And by doing so you are guilty of the same sensationalist behaviour that led the newspaper to print the headline "DOOMED" on said photo.
Hardly, I'm judging the action, not the person, I don't know the photographer, and I'm not going to pretend I do, but we are all judged by our actions.


If the first thought going through your head in this situation is 'huh, better get a picture of this'...

Well.
It doesn't matter whether you are judging the action or person, you do not have sufficient evidence to do so.

Perhaps the first thought going through his head was "huh, well it's too late to help but at least I can make a record of this event"

Like I've said the photo could have been taken from 50 metres away and zoomed in, meaning the photographer could do nothing but take a photo.

Your condemnation of this man appeals to the emotions and is blind to the many different possibilities of the situation.
Therefore it is sensationalist.
Condemning the action, not the man.

I'm not one for ad hominem.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

New member
Aug 30, 2011
3,104
0
0
The photo communicates information. The information that a man was trapped on the tracks and was run over by a train. Fair enough, I can see how this has relevance to the article. The fact that it was taken instead of offering help is about the most callous thing I've seen all week, but there's nothing wrong with the picture. It hasn't been altered, and it's a very efficient way to communicate the situation. Whether the story is in the public interest at all, I'm not going to say either way.

The captions are stupid. Sensationalist, add nothing to the story, don't tell the reader anything they don't already know, and "DOOMED"? Really? That's just immature.
 

Smeatza

New member
Dec 12, 2011
934
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
The bottom line is that one picture is no way near enough evidence to make accurate judgements on any parties involved. And by doing so you are guilty of the same sensationalist behaviour that led the newspaper to print the headline "DOOMED" on said photo.
Hardly, I'm judging the action, not the person, I don't know the photographer, and I'm not going to pretend I do, but we are all judged by our actions.


If the first thought going through your head in this situation is 'huh, better get a picture of this'...

Well.
It doesn't matter whether you are judging the action or person, you do not have sufficient evidence to do so.

Perhaps the first thought going through his head was "huh, well it's too late to help but at least I can make a record of this event"

Like I've said the photo could have been taken from 50 metres away and zoomed in, meaning the photographer could do nothing but take a photo.

Your condemnation of this man appeals to the emotions and is blind to the many different possibilities of the situation.
Therefore it is sensationalist.
Condemning the action, not the man.

I'm not one for ad hominem.
Fine, ignore the majority of my post then.
The fact remains that you (not you personally, but everyone who is making the same judgement without evidence) are making sensationalist judgements and are just as bad as the paper.
 
Dec 14, 2009
15,526
0
0
Smeatza said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
The bottom line is that one picture is no way near enough evidence to make accurate judgements on any parties involved. And by doing so you are guilty of the same sensationalist behaviour that led the newspaper to print the headline "DOOMED" on said photo.
Hardly, I'm judging the action, not the person, I don't know the photographer, and I'm not going to pretend I do, but we are all judged by our actions.


If the first thought going through your head in this situation is 'huh, better get a picture of this'...

Well.
It doesn't matter whether you are judging the action or person, you do not have sufficient evidence to do so.

Perhaps the first thought going through his head was "huh, well it's too late to help but at least I can make a record of this event"

Like I've said the photo could have been taken from 50 metres away and zoomed in, meaning the photographer could do nothing but take a photo.

Your condemnation of this man appeals to the emotions and is blind to the many different possibilities of the situation.
Therefore it is sensationalist.
Condemning the action, not the man.

I'm not one for ad hominem.
Fine, ignore the majority of my post then.
The fact remains that you (not you personally, but everyone who is making the same judgement without evidence) are making sensationalist judgements and are just as bad as the paper.
I'm no photographer, so I may very well be wrong, but from looking at the composition of the shot, I'm not sure how he could be standing '50 metres away', especially at a subway station and at that angle.
 

Thoric485

New member
Aug 17, 2008
632
0
0
Tabloids are doing what they've always done. The picture's existence offends me more somehow.

I can't blame the guy for not rushing over there and risking to get pulled down by a panicked, desperate person, but snapping a fucking picture as a man is about to die tragically doesn't sit right with me. It just doesn't.
 

Saladfork

New member
Jul 3, 2011
921
0
0
I have a problem with the guy who took the photo not helping to pull the guy up, but I don't have a problem with the newspaper running the photo.

I mean, come on, I was expecting to come and see that they showed a picture of someone who got the back of his skull blown out or something and I still wouldn't have had a problem with that.
 

Scow2

New member
Aug 3, 2009
801
0
0
soren7550 said:
Please, there have been far more brutal cover photos within the past month than this, such as a dead man's body being dragged down in the city streets he was killed him (somewhere in the Middle East if I remember right), and a guy who committed suicide on live TV.

Seeing as you don't actually see him dead, I guess that in a sense it's fine.
SaneAmongInsane said:
This also isn't the worst I've seen as the cover of their paper. When that egyptian guy got overthrown we were treated to a picture of the guys corpse.
Actually, a photograph of someone already dead is MUCH better than someone who's about to die - there's nothing to do in the former case except collect evidence, while in the latter, it sends the signal that you care more about getting a photograph off than saving the life.

Jacco said:
No you guys! Christ almighty in heaven. The photo is not okay at all. This ************ stood there and took a picture while someone DIED when they had the option to help them. What is okay about that?

The other pictures you mentioned are ones where there was not necessarily immediate danger or else nothing could be done.

This piece of shit is neither of those things.
This... although if others were rushing to help, it's possible the photographer stood back to keep from getting in the way of other attempts to help. And if the psycho who shoved him was still on the scene, getting close where he could shove you as well is a deterrant to helping the guy.
 

Scow2

New member
Aug 3, 2009
801
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
Smeatza said:
The bottom line is that one picture is no way near enough evidence to make accurate judgements on any parties involved. And by doing so you are guilty of the same sensationalist behaviour that led the newspaper to print the headline "DOOMED" on said photo.
Hardly, I'm judging the action, not the person, I don't know the photographer, and I'm not going to pretend I do, but we are all judged by our actions.


If the first thought going through your head in this situation is 'huh, better get a picture of this'...

Well.
Actually, it's not even a thought to a Journalistic photographer - it's a conditioned reflex. They take pictures before they even know what the heck's going on.
 

Milanezi

New member
Mar 2, 2009
619
0
0
First of, I don't know how long it took to take that picture, but at the distance the train is, I don't know if that man COULD be saved.

I really don't get WHY take such a picture in the first place: as it was posted, this was a violent event that has no impact on society "as a whole", this has awful consequences on the people who knew Mr Han, such as his family; unlike the (also debatable) picture of that starving African child with a vulture standing right next to him, waiting until the kid could no longer fend himself to start feeding itself, the picture taken had a clear statement: "starvation in the Magreb (I think) is way worse than most people think. It put a new light, a very brutal light, on a situation that wasn't getting enough attention, and it helped, maybe only a little, but it did, once you see that picture you get the message and you don't forget (there's a movie called "The Bang Bang Club", which I believe tells the story of the photographer). But I must ask myself: when a reporter takes a picture of a man about to die in the subway because someone (crazy or not) pushed him on the trails, what is the message there? Because, thank God, this doesn't happen every day, there's no social conscience to be awakened here... Oh but there is a message: "I just got a shocker picture, New York Post will pay me well for it, since they can run it and a shitload of people will read the article trying to figure out what the heck is going on there" that's the message, that and MAYBE a very freaked up idea of how to get those "moment of journalistic instinct" photos in order to get a Pulitzer. It's like one of those very low quality newspapers that bet on pictures of dead people, blood everywhere, in order to shock costumers and sell more papers.

Hannah Arendt speaks about this on her classic book "Adolf Eichmann Trial", she was one of many jews kept in the Camp Gurs concentration camp, but managed to escape with others. In the book she talks about the trial of said nazi, and the "circus" that was created for the trial, when he, in fact, was an officer of almost no importance to WW II events, though he was treated as if he was Hitler himself. What she perceived there was something awful, something that happens everywhere in different areas: the banalization of evil. Basically it means, making a serious matter, such as violence, and making it common: when I went to Tijuana, for instance, there was an Australian group with me, they were terrified to see children begging for money, selling stuff on the streets, etc. I didn't feel anything, because it was banalized to me: I live in São Paulo, Brazil, this shitty stuff is common place here, sadly, so we lose perception, and suddenly what is WRONG no longer disgusts, it's just "normal", and when it's normal there's no reason to FIX it, it's uncomfortable so you just make it go away by ignoring the problem or doing something else.
The publication of this picture, more than anything, is banalizing that person's life by capitalizing on tragedy for the sake of nothing but ratings and fame. Do not be mistaken, for the people who published the picture, the death of that man was an opportunity, it had a PRICE TAG, and they wanted that money, they turned a lost life into profit. It's not a war photo, it's not major event that will shake society, it only shook us with indignity, which means something great, it means there're people out there and in here with good moral sense, the minimum moral sense, to see that preposterous picture not as news, but as an opportunistic OFFENSE to morals and to society as a whole. Violence, every type of violence, must never be banalized, keep the horror photos for when they are really needed, so that they can shock the right way and journalism can have a (very) positive social impact, don't keep force feeding violence into the public, until we no longer feel it, that just makes the world a much worse place.
 

RobfromtheGulag

New member
May 18, 2010
931
0
0
'If it bleeds, it leads'.
Isn't that a quote from Bowling for Columbine? It wasn't a new sentiment at that point either. This is standard fare, just so long as we can keep serious real issues like drone strikes on civilians and internet regulation out of the papers. /cynical
 

Space Spoons

New member
Aug 21, 2008
3,335
0
0
I see a lot of posters here complaining about the fact that the photographer snapped a photo instead of springing into action to help.

Think about that for a moment. When something newsworthy happens, a photographer takes a photo, because this is their profession. They are not firefighters. They are not police officers. They are not self-styled vigilantes. They're photographers, and they're there to document an event, not to change it.

Consider the Pulitzer prize winning 1968 photograph, General Nguyen Ngoc Loan Executing a Viet Cong Prisoner in Saigon.
Eddie Addams, the photographer, did nothing to interfere with the atrocity being committed right before his eyes. He was a photographer, not a soldier. This was, generally, understood by everyone who would eventually see the photograph. Nobody tried to crucify Eddie Addams for standing by and taking a picture- after all, that's what photographers do.

We need photographers like this. Photographers who are willing to stand by and document events which are terrible, cruel and tragic. Yes, even events like a man about to crushed by an oncoming subway train after being pushed from the platform. It's a moment in time, a moment in human history, and it shouldn't be hidden away or swept under the rug- it deserves to be documented. This man deserves to have the last few moments of his life be seen by the world so that we can understand even some small amount of the terror that must have gone through him. Discussing it with words keeps it in the abstract- this photograph is more powerful than any mere discussion. It makes the tragedy real. That's important.

Now, the USAGE of such a photograph- splashing the word "DOOMED" across it to draw newstand eyes- that's less about capturing a moment in time and more about selling papers, and yes, it's pretty unforgivable. It's nothing to do with the photo itself or the person that took it, though.
 

Spade Lead

New member
Nov 9, 2009
1,042
0
0
Daystar Clarion said:
Condemning the action, not the man.

I'm not one for ad hominem.
His job as a photographer is to capture life as it happens. He is, from the standpoint of a photographer and someone who has ridden on the subway before, doing what is in the job description first, and not wasting his time trying to save the man who is already "DOOMED" from the outset. The fact that you can see the subway car at all means that there is no time for anyone who is not in the picture to save him before the subway hits him. What a lot of people who have never ridden a subway don't realize is that the subway does not stop as soon as it enters the station, but it continues to a designated stopping area, and that isn't always a point that ends with the last car of the train just outside the end of the tunnel. This subway was probably still doing 30 miles per hour when this picture was taken. Who the hell wants to run out in front of a train doing 30 miles per hour on the off chance that "Maybe" you can save the guy in front of it, but more realistically you are just risking getting hit yourself.

Also, what Space Spoons said above me.
 

SaetonChapelle

New member
May 11, 2010
477
0
0
I remember a while ago the New York Post released an image of a man trapped in between the train tracks and the train, still alive but begging for assistence. It stated that he was stuck and until paramedics arrived that nothing could be done, however I still found it revolting. I can't imagine being in a horrific and painful situation only to have someone come up to me with a camera and start snapping photo's.

This though, this makes me sad. The only thing that comes to mind is that the man decided a picture was worth more then running over and rescuing the individual. The only conclusion I could have for him is that perhaps he has a long field lens, but even I know the lengths of those subways, living in new york city myself. And even then, I feel like perhaps if I was that man, my first thought wouldn't be "whelp, time for a photo!" I don't know...
 

Jacco

New member
May 1, 2011
1,738
0
0
Smeatza said:
Whether he would have been able to actually help is irrelevant. Those were seconds that may have saved his life and they may not have. But the fact he chose to take a picture instead of ATTEMPTING to help is disgraceful.
 

Jacco

New member
May 1, 2011
1,738
0
0
Scow2 said:
Jacco said:
No you guys! Christ almighty in heaven. The photo is not okay at all. This ************ stood there and took a picture while someone DIED when they had the option to help them. What is okay about that?

The other pictures you mentioned are ones where there was not necessarily immediate danger or else nothing could be done.

This piece of shit is neither of those things.
This... although if others were rushing to help, it's possible the photographer stood back to keep from getting in the way of other attempts to help. And if the psycho who shoved him was still on the scene, getting close where he could shove you as well is a deterrant to helping the guy.
True, but then that begs the question of why others didn't restrain him while someone attempted to help the guy.