Poll: Kill La Kill; a story of sexual empowerment?

[OldNewNewOld]

You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.

I was at a convention in Pittsburgh called Tekkosocon and there was an anthropology professor that talked about Kill la Kill and its relation to State Shinto and the WWII experience

He is an anthropologist. I can't take his words too seriously because in the end, it's just his opinion. He is paid to find hidden symbolism in everything. That's his job.
My literature professor proved that the Magical Mountain from Thomas Mann was ice cream. How? She just kept finding hidden symbolism. You can find "hidden" symbolism in literally everything. That doesn't mean it's actually there. You decided to make those connections.

KLK is a battle shonen fanservice made by Trigger. There is literally no hidden message besides making fun of tropes, which they in the end used unironically.

 

[eatsamypizza]

You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.

I was at a convention in Pittsburgh called Tekkosocon and there was an anthropology professor that talked about Kill la Kill and its relation to State Shinto and the WWII experience

Study of Anime: Kill la Kill, State Shinto, and the Reinvention of Divine Imagery [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/04/inspirations-kill-la-kill-and.html]

The professor, Charles Dunbar of the University of New York, said that the show was a subvertion of anime and that it had elements such as various gods, oni, and basic Meiji instiutions.

If a professor can find this type of symbolism with a show, i don't think you are overthinking things.

As for the whole topic itself: I will say that the show itself does try to play with expectations since the main villain wants to homogenize everyone symbolized by the wearing of clothes while the freedom fighters are resisting by not wearing clothes at all. I will admit that I can see why some people could hate the fanbase: some fans are taking it way too far in over justification (my view, it uses fanservice in a way that works within the context of the world and I can shallow the fanservice because of it. I will admit that it may not be saying anything of puberty, maturity and the like but it does turn the image of fanservice in the context of anime a bit on its head.

If anything else, it proves that fanservice can be more than just there for titlation but be worked into the plot

Is there symbolism in the show? yup. Does it matter? Nope. They reference lots of stuff but it all ends up being worthless because they say nothing. The show really isn't anything special.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.

I was at a convention in Pittsburgh called Tekkosocon and there was an anthropology professor that talked about Kill la Kill and its relation to State Shinto and the WWII experience

He is an anthropologist. I can't take his words too seriously because in the end, it's just his opinion. He is paid to find hidden symbolism in everything. That's his job.
My literature professor proved that the Magical Mountain from Thomas Mann was ice cream. How? She just kept finding hidden symbolism. You can find "hidden" symbolism in literally everything. That doesn't mean it's actually there. You decided to make those connections.

KLK is a battle shonen fanservice made by Trigger. There is literally no hidden message besides making fun of tropes, which they in the end used unironically.

Again, your interpretation but I find the professor's interpretation to be reasonable (one thought, did you read the link and if so, do you think the connections are too much). He shows his research, gives valid points, and the points don't seem too much of a stretch. Again, I think the show is smarter that it looks but your call.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

You guys should stop reading too much into things that aren't there.
KLK is made by the same guys who made TTGL. It's just a over the top comedy battle shonen show. Nothing more nothing less.
Except that it's not even 1% as good as TTGL. But they tried.

I was at a convention in Pittsburgh called Tekkosocon and there was an anthropology professor that talked about Kill la Kill and its relation to State Shinto and the WWII experience

Study of Anime: Kill la Kill, State Shinto, and the Reinvention of Divine Imagery [http://www.studyofanime.com/2014/04/inspirations-kill-la-kill-and.html]

The professor, Charles Dunbar of the University of New York, said that the show was a subvertion of anime and that it had elements such as various gods, oni, and basic Meiji instiutions.

If a professor can find this type of symbolism with a show, i don't think you are overthinking things.

As for the whole topic itself: I will say that the show itself does try to play with expectations since the main villain wants to homogenize everyone symbolized by the wearing of clothes while the freedom fighters are resisting by not wearing clothes at all. I will admit that I can see why some people could hate the fanbase: some fans are taking it way too far in over justification (my view, it uses fanservice in a way that works within the context of the world and I can shallow the fanservice because of it. I will admit that it may not be saying anything of puberty, maturity and the like but it does turn the image of fanservice in the context of anime a bit on its head.

If anything else, it proves that fanservice can be more than just there for titlation but be worked into the plot

Is there symbolism in the show? yup. Does it matter? Nope. They reference lots of stuff but it all ends up being worthless because they say nothing. The show really isn't anything special.

I would argue that the symbolism is more there to reframe the story rather than say something but perhaps I and many of the people with interpretations are a bit much and in over our head.

 

[deserteagleeye]

I understood that with the heavy fascism tone of the story it was going to have some kind of commentary on Japan's government in the past. I knew that the thread imagery probably had something to do with the "Threads of fate" and I knew Hounnoji academy would be a reference to Hounnoji temple which I assumed had some relevant historical significance to the plot as well.

That just brings me back to rolling my eyes because "I get it..." and "I don't care."
Japan loves referencing their own history in narratives. It's probably just me because I watch a fair amount of anime and other japanese media but I've seen symbolism like that used dozens of times. None of that really matters to me because I'm just trying to enjoy the story and characters which are shit. (excluding Satsuki)
Sure, the action is great but with such a crappy cast of characters and a plot that fails to be compelling because it's just drowning in its own symbolism juices, I just can't get invested in it. They're fighting clothing for god sakes. I don't care what theme you try to extrapolate from this wholly clothe-centric world but it just fails as a narrative.

To me it had a nice pace with both funny and serious moments balancing each other out. Mako is surprisingly fun and good at lightening the mood when needed (Gamagorri's involvement with her did not change his convictions towards Satsuki so I see no issue with the invovlment.

This though, I absolutely cannot compromise with you. The serious moments are utterly ruined by their "funny" moments. Most notably that cancer Mako who is given a literal spot-light to just shit on any tension you had built up from the genuinely good moments. Remember when Ryuko found out about her origin and went into a rage when she woke up? That was genuinely captivating and they should let it play out with her leaving in silence and everyone else at a loss for words. BUT NOPE! Mako just has to fill that damn quota and shit all the fuck over the mood with her stupid "wacky" bullcrap. She is without a doubt the most annoying character I have ever seen in any anime that goes far beyond her "intended annoyance" factor. Every single character she associates herself with just suffers, especially Gamagori who was always wacky at the right moments while still being a serious character. It just kills me to see him forced into a canon pairing with that skid mark Mako. To me, his loyalty to Satsuki is drastically cheapened when he goes out of his way to save Mako. It's like he won the shittiest lottery ever and has to forever be paired with her against his will and I just feel sorry for him.

Remember the no-late-day episode where everything was funny all the time? That one actually worked. (except for a couple of Ryuko's lines which were grating.)
They set up a totally wacky scenario that wasn't part of anything important plot-wise. It was just all fun and wacky shit for one episode and it worked. That was the only kind of episode where Mako actually worked. She is just a detriment to every other episode she's in. I know they wanted to give Ryuko a friend to lean on but it's like she won the shittiest lottery as well and now she's stuck with Jar Jar Binks.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

I understood that with the heavy fascism tone of the story it was going to have some kind of commentary on Japan's government in the past. I knew that the thread imagery probably had something to do with the "Threads of fate" and I knew Hounnoji academy would be a reference to Hounnoji temple which I assumed had some relevant historical significance to the plot as well.

That just brings me back to rolling my eyes because "I get it..." and "I don't care."
Japan loves referencing their own history in narratives. It's probably just me because I watch a fair amount of anime and other japanese media but I've seen symbolism like that used dozens of times. None of that really matters to me because I'm just trying to enjoy the story and characters which are shit. (excluding Satsuki)
Sure, the action is great but with such a crappy cast of characters and a plot that fails to be compelling because it's just drowning in its own symbolism juices, I just can't get invested in it. They're fighting clothing for god sakes. I don't care what theme you try to extrapolate from this wholly clothe-centric world but it just fails as a narrative.

To me it had a nice pace with both funny and serious moments balancing each other out. Mako is surprisingly fun and good at lightening the mood when needed (Gamagorri's involvement with her did not change his convictions towards Satsuki so I see no issue with the invovlment.

This though, I absolutely cannot compromise with you. The serious moments are utterly ruined by their "funny" moments. Most notably that cancer Mako who is given a literal spot-light to just shit on any tension you had built up from the genuinely good moments. Remember when Ryuko found out about her origin and went into a rage when she woke up? That was genuinely captivating and they should let it play out with her leaving in silence and everyone else at a loss for words. BUT NOPE! Mako just has to fill that damn quota and shit all the fuck over the mood with her stupid "wacky" bullcrap. She is without a doubt the most annoying character I have ever seen in any anime that goes far beyond her "intended annoyance" factor. Every single character she associates herself with just suffers, especially Gamagori who was always wacky at the right moments while still being a serious character. It just kills me to see him forced into a canon pairing with that skid mark Mako. To me, his loyalty to Satsuki is drastically cheapened when he goes out of his way to save Mako. It's like he won the shittiest lottery ever and has to forever be paired with her against his will and I just feel sorry for him.

Remember the no-late-day episode where everything was funny all the time? That one actually worked. (except for a couple of Ryuko's lines which were grating.)
They set up a totally wacky scenario that wasn't part of anything important plot-wise. It was just all fun and wacky shit for one episode and it worked. That was the only kind of episode where Mako actually worked. She is just a detriment to every other episode she's in. I know they wanted to give Ryuko a friend to lean on but it's like she won the shittiest lottery as well and now she's stuck with Jar Jar Binks.

Addressing the first point:

I like having history, culture and myths referenced in a show. Hell, I like the Index series because of the absurd interpretations of religions they have. To me, having stuff like that make watching a show more rewarding since you not only have the stuff on screen but a sort of web of references and culture. That's just how I work but I can understand that people can tire of it so apologies about hammering that point in

Addressing the second point:

The way I see it, Mako is the person one can always count on; she tried to help in her own nonsencial way and even helped Ryoko in the third episode. As for the scene you mentioned, I think it works because of the fact that Mako tried to do her thing; the fact that Ryoko did not turn back or get better showed how angry and pissed she was. Again, our own opinions and it is clear we can't compromise on it so I say we go our seperate ways on it

An additional point:
Honestly, I feel the show needed to get made. The fact that Trigger made a show that was so crazy means that we have something to talk about on a thematic and critical level. Even if I hated the show, I would rather have bad but interesting to discuss rather then mediocre but boring like so many anime i've seen in the recent years .

 

[Tsukuyomi]

I dunno about sexual empowerment or anything else, although thus far the discussion here has been interesting. I see what people who think it's got deeper things are seeing, but at the same time I've found that sometimes some of the best stuff you find out there, the stuff that people go berserk over and love to bits, is the stuff that was made WITHOUT a message. It was done simply because the creators wanted to make it.

For Kill la Kill...I enjoyed it. I never saw anything in the series that I thought was fan-service per-se. Yes, nudity was a big thing, and the skimpy outfits were a big thing as well. But I never saw them as fan-service, or as any type of message beyond perhaps "the things kids WEAR these days! amirite?!"

To me the series took the old question of if clothing makes the man or does the man make the clothes and ran with it to someplace silly and amazing. there are some definite sexual things in there, but clothes, no clothes, skimpy clothes, teenagers, sex is a part of all those things to varying degrees, as is nudity. Since, let's face it: if you're not wearing clothes, you're naked. They're kinda tied together.

I see where the series COULD be about more, but I simply don't think it is.

 

[TristanBelmont]

I'm assuming the third option is for people like me who haven't watched Kill la Kill.

 

[The_Lost_King]

I didn't really read into it. The way I see it, the people at Trigger just put in a lot of fan service because it's a stereotype of anime and what they do is take stereotypes and run wild with them.