TSL was my jam, even without all the restored content, but now that the restoration patch is available, there really is no contest between it and the original. The plotline is just so creative and interesting! And even though the party members aren't the usual style, they are deeply intriguing people to me, and you can really feel their dilemmas, even with just a little dialogue. All of the meta context is fascinating as well, what with all the comments on typical RPG elements like experience points and such. Finally, seeing the life of a war veteran in such an interesting sci-fi/fantasy setting is something I really haven't seen done before or since, so that's rad, too! There are a million more things I could say but really it would be redundant. TSL is a unique experience. There is no other game like it.
Of course, I like the first one a lot, too! It's just a lot more generic feeling at this point. It tends to blur in my mind with other Bioware things.
I played KOTOR 2 with the mod but I couldn't get into it as much. The story was confusing and I didn't like the characters. To me, they were ALL Carth.
But that's just me, I was never that BIG into Star Wars. I have the movies and that's it. I like the Star Wars universe but much prefer the universe of Mass Effect. Or Firefly.
I've never understood how the big twist held any impact even on the first play through. The foreshadowing might as well be an actual club that Bioware took and beat you half to death with. There was no subtlety to it at all, and the rest of the story wasn't all that different. Add in the mediocre gameplay and there wasn't much for me to like about it.
My vote, no question. Alliance was decent, and added lots of nice touches to the X-Wing formula. But nothing was quite as awesome as TIE Fighter.
I always found The Force and Jedi to be the least interesting aspects of the Star Wars world. As such, my favorite Star Wars games are mostly without it. The X-Wing series, Dark Forces (just the first one, the rest added that Jedi stuff and killed the series,) Republic Commando, basically anything without Jedi is at the top of my list. KOTOR, is the next entry on my list though.
Kotor 2. The robes are actually robes, and I like developing all my characters to be Jedi if I can. Plus, iunno, something about it just clicks. Maybe it's because Kreia is a fucking badass and the way the game can fuck with moral choices, and plus the really cool bad guys.
+Visas Marr and the Miraluka. Fav character and species.
Kotor 1 has... well, a better protagonist and story, but, it didn't stick with me as much as the second did. I didn't like most of the cast. (Mission Vao is one of the most annoying characters to me. Ever.)
Kotor 2 was good, until it completely fell apart at the end. And no, mods don't count, shut up. If a game is released with a buggy, slapdash ending, that is the standard it should be judged by.
*It's been over a year since I played the game, so I might be a bit fuzzy on the details.*
Everything falls apart as soon as you finish rescuing all those Jedi masters. They decide that, gee it sure was nice of you to rescue them all and bring them all together, and yeah, sure there is that big bad evil thing (I can't remember what it was) that needs fighting, but no, it's far more important to pass sentence on the person who's been trying to help you the whole time and who you admit is crazy powerful, yeah, let's piss them off.
So then, Jedi masters being dead, what the frick was the point of the rest of the game? The Exile may as well of just sat in her ship flicking bolts at Atton. Oh wait, Exile gains power from killing? Okay, so the rest of the game was just a grind for XP, great.
Then after this incredibly dumb plot point, events just seem to happen without reason or explanation. It's here that they realized that the budget had run out or whatever and just slapped what they had together into something resembling an ending.
You go back to that first Jedi lady and it turns out she's dark side, even though she doesn't know she is and doesn't want to be. I guess being dark side is just something you're born with. Then you go to Malachor V for... some reason (I really don't remember if there was actually a reason that Exile decided to go here.) Then Kreia turns out to be evil, natch. Then theres some junk about the robots doing something that's never explained or followed up on. And I don't think it was ever really explained what the device on Malachor was or why it was there, but I guess we stopped it and... escape?
I'm probably missing some details that were legitimately there, but I'm really just trying to express how I felt when I had just finished the game. Disappointed and confused.
So Kotor 1 wins simply by virtue of having an ending that didn't seem like it was held together with scotch tape.
Although, none of the characters in Kotor 2 were as annoying as Carth -I don't trust you, and won't ever shut up about it- Onasi.
Kotor 2 was good, until it completely fell apart at the end. And no, mods don't count, shut up. If a game is released with a buggy, slapdash ending, that is the standard it should be judged by.
When the mod is intended to bring the game closer to the developers original intentions and doesn't use anything that wasn't there to begin with, I think it's fair enough to judge it as part of the intended product. Saying 'that's the way it was released and how it should be judged' is pretty unfair, iteration and improvement are part of what makes great lasting experiences. Usually from the developers in the form of patches and continued support but in Kotor 2's unique case in the form of dedicated modder support.
To use an example from another genre; Blade Runner's original theatrical release was terrible (Seriously, watch it sometime, it's pretty bad) but with a re-release that allowed the creator to bring it closer in line with his vision and with some vigorous editing it's since become one of the most influential classics of the film genre.
The mod devs aren't creating anything that wasn't meant to be there in the first place.
Kotor 2 was good, until it completely fell apart at the end. And no, mods don't count, shut up. If a game is released with a buggy, slapdash ending, that is the standard it should be judged by.
*It's been over a year since I played the game, so I might be a bit fuzzy on the details.*
Everything falls apart as soon as you finish rescuing all those Jedi masters. They decide that, gee it sure was nice of you to rescue them all and bring them all together, and yeah, sure there is that big bad evil thing (I can't remember what it was) that needs fighting, but no, it's far more important to pass sentence on the person who's been trying to help you the whole time and who you admit is crazy powerful, yeah, let's piss them off.
So then, Jedi masters being dead, what the frick was the point of the rest of the game? The Exile may as well of just sat in her ship flicking bolts at Atton. Oh wait, Exile gains power from killing? Okay, so the rest of the game was just a grind for XP, great.
Then after this incredibly dumb plot point, events just seem to happen without reason or explanation. It's here that they realized that the budget had run out or whatever and just slapped what they had together into something resembling an ending.
You go back to that first Jedi lady and it turns out she's dark side, even though she doesn't know she is and doesn't want to be. I guess being dark side is just something you're born with. Then you go to Malachor V for... some reason (I really don't remember if there was actually a reason that Exile decided to go here.) Then Kreia turns out to be evil, natch. Then theres some junk about the robots doing something that's never explained or followed up on. And I don't think it was ever really explained what the device on Malachor was or why it was there, but I guess we stopped it and... escape?
I'm probably missing some details that were legitimately there, but I'm really just trying to express how I felt when I had just finished the game. Disappointed and confused.
So Kotor 1 wins simply by virtue of having an ending that didn't seem like it was held together with scotch tape.
Although, none of the characters in Kotor 2 were as annoying as Carth -I don't trust you, and won't ever shut up about it- Onasi.
I would disagree that mods don't count, as my opinion of any game is going to be as it is, not as it was. For example, both Arcanum and The Temple of Elemental Evil were horrible messes when they were released, but the effort of dedicated fans have made them into some of the best CRPGs of their time, with ToEE remaining mechanically the best D&D simulator to date. I can't put that aside just because it wasn't as good over a decade ago.
Anyway, TSL for me. The writing is better, I like most of the characters better, and the game mechanics are improved. That said, it sits among my favorites, rather than atop them, because I have trouble picking a favorite among games of different genres. Jedi Outcast and The X-Wing series are also strong contenders.
Kotor 2 was good, until it completely fell apart at the end. And no, mods don't count, shut up. If a game is released with a buggy, slapdash ending, that is the standard it should be judged by.
*It's been over a year since I played the game, so I might be a bit fuzzy on the details.*
Everything falls apart as soon as you finish rescuing all those Jedi masters. They decide that, gee it sure was nice of you to rescue them all and bring them all together, and yeah, sure there is that big bad evil thing (I can't remember what it was) that needs fighting, but no, it's far more important to pass sentence on the person who's been trying to help you the whole time and who you admit is crazy powerful, yeah, let's piss them off.
So then, Jedi masters being dead, what the frick was the point of the rest of the game? The Exile may as well of just sat in her ship flicking bolts at Atton. Oh wait, Exile gains power from killing? Okay, so the rest of the game was just a grind for XP, great.
Then after this incredibly dumb plot point, events just seem to happen without reason or explanation. It's here that they realized that the budget had run out or whatever and just slapped what they had together into something resembling an ending.
You go back to that first Jedi lady and it turns out she's dark side, even though she doesn't know she is and doesn't want to be. I guess being dark side is just something you're born with. Then you go to Malachor V for... some reason (I really don't remember if there was actually a reason that Exile decided to go here.) Then Kreia turns out to be evil, natch. Then theres some junk about the robots doing something that's never explained or followed up on. And I don't think it was ever really explained what the device on Malachor was or why it was there, but I guess we stopped it and... escape?
I'm probably missing some details that were legitimately there, but I'm really just trying to express how I felt when I had just finished the game. Disappointed and confused.
So Kotor 1 wins simply by virtue of having an ending that didn't seem like it was held together with scotch tape.
Although, none of the characters in Kotor 2 were as annoying as Carth -I don't trust you, and won't ever shut up about it- Onasi.
Definitely disagree with this. I thought the final few hours of the game were a bit rushed and weird, but it didn't fall apart, it's weird and rushed but it's only as weird as the someone jilted ending of MGS2. Either way Obsidian weren't given enough time to publish the game, it was rushed into a Christmas release and could've done with a few more months.
I'm a stick jockey, so Tie Fighter and X-Wing Alliance are always my top star wars games (former for story, latter for gameplay). A friend of mine in college was a champion pilot in the online community; I'm not sure if I ever managed to shoot him down.
I did also enjoy Jedi Knight II and Jedi Academy as well as Rebel Assault II. Nothing quite beats picking up stormtroopers with force choke and then dropping them off cliffs. And Rebel Assault II felt an awful lot like watching a movie in a good way.
Sadly KoToR just never really got my motor running, but I also didn't try to play until fairly recently. I should probably give it another chance. I'm looking forward to trying the second one with all of those mods that made it the game it was supposed to be.
I really find myself liking Kotor 2 more not for the companions which i felt bioware did better but for the overall story and more unique take on the franchise less iconic more new.
I'm going to have to go with KOTOR. It holds a special place in my heart for being one of the very first great Star Wars games that I have ever played and also because it's the first Bioware game I ever played.
I went with KOTOR since it had the greatest first time impact on me. Kotor 2 had fantastic villains, characters and build up but the ending just killed the experience and left you feeling disappointed.
I actually believe that The Old Republic could rival it in storytelling if it was simply presented in a more streamlined experience. The Imperial Agent had a wonderful opening story (wasn't able to finish it though) and the Jedi Knights story was great.
I actually believe that The Old Republic could rival it in storytelling if it was simply presented in a more streamlined experience. The Imperial Agent had a wonderful opening story (wasn't able to finish it though) and the Jedi Knights story was great.
Clearly you and I played two very different games because I found the storytelling in SWTOR to be terrible. Even dismissing what that game did to the characters and story from Kotor 1 and 2 (Including pretty much retconning 90% of Kotor 2 out of existence and turning Revan into a generic villain), having tried the Jedi Knight, Consular, Trooper, Inquisitor, and the Sith Knight or whatever they were called I didn't find a single one to be particularly compelling. Some had some neat ideas such as the Troopers revenge story, but ultimately they were all plagued by terrible pacing, poor dialogue, and complete lack of any meaningful decision making.
Maybe the Agent really is something else entirely, but I burned myself out way before getting to that class just trying out the others in search of anything that could even begin to match the previous two Kotor games in terms of entertaining narrative and failing. SWTOR had some neat ideas and I liked some of the things it did, but story wasn't among them in my opinion.
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