Poll: Korra is over, time for general retrospect and hindsight

[njrk97]

Maybe it's not completely fair to compare the pro bending to the real fights, but that begs the question of why they needed to include the pro bending at all when it is so boring in comparison. In ATLA there was that underground earthbending arena and that was so much more interesting compared to pro bending where they have such heavy restrictions that it makes bending completely dull. And I never could figure out the rules to pro bending either, it seemed to be completely random when a team scored a point and how many points they needed to win. I would have much preferred more gladiatorial style bending arenas. And, honestly, I don't remember any other fights from the first 2 seasons that were a whole lot better than any of the pro bending matches, maybe a bit but they all suffered from the same problems that you mentioned. Not using the elements as the environment pretty much goes against the whole concept of bending, which is to manipulate the elements that make up the environment.

*realises American gladiator persona and bending would be the most awesome and hilarious combination ever*

Pro bending is a interesting concept with bad execution so it was kinda good it was dropped. I also don't remember much about the first 2 seasons, ironically it seems like the weakest fights are from Korra herself (Yet again i think character wise Korra is not a skilled fighter). Look at some of the side characters fight and the projectiles usage is significantly less than korra.

So im saying i agree with you and it kinda sucks cause now i will notice it more XD.At the same rate though im also saying Korra seems to be the least impressive fighter (Even Non avatar state Aang has some of the most basic fights. Not bad by a long stretch but compare it to toph and katara in some fights and you see the difference and that makes sense since he learns all four elements unlike katara and toph who learnt only one there entire life). Its the same with Korra she has the weakest fights when you compare them to stuff like Bolin and Lin because she doesn't specialise in a single element and it even worse with Korra since unlike Aang, who learnt and master air for most of his childhood,Korra learnt Fire,Water and Earth basically at the same time so she is more inexperienced with the finer details of each element.

 

[mmmikey]

Korra did start off bad. I mean, as I said in my first post it had potential, but they had wasted all of that by the time book 1 wrapped up. The early episodes don't seem bad at first, but once the finale is reached it's apparent that over half the season was completely pointless. They spent so much time screwing around with love triangles and pro bending, that they had to cram almost all of the development of the main plot into the last 2 episodes. And if being completely irrelevant to the main plot while also shoehorning in an agonizing romance and boring pro bending matches doesn't make something bad, I don't know what would

As a fan of season one I'll do my best to defend the probending on that it helped build up the new world feel the LoK series had. Season 1 was really the only season that helped set this series apart from the old. Republic City felt the most fleshed out of all the locations used in LoK. The probending events was where the common people celebrated bending. We also get introduced to Mako and Bolin though it. And Amon does his biggest attack in the buildup to the finale here. I think it was a step back in that it wiped out the form basis of bending from ATLA.

I also don't mind the love triangle/parallelogram so much. I always found it to be the background drama going on while shit was going down somewhere. At least for the first season. I think that the way Korra was pining at the time for Mako made it a pretty hard sell that she was in any way gay (or bisexual). And it was these interactions that gave the characters most of their personality like it or not.

I think you also mentioned in a earlier post that Amon was stupid to reveal himself in the towering vortex, I'm pretty sure he was reacting on instinct since he was in danger of drowning (knocked out a window, into water, partially unconscious).

I'm really only a fan on season one. It had sharp animation the whole run, great world building (or city since it's almost all contained in Republic City). Introduced the tech and fashion/culture of the times. And put a great debate up in a sovereign city about the bender/nonbender, inherent and otherwise, inequality. Nearly every character introduced had their moments. My biggest nagging plot elements are Korra not airbending til after getting robbed of her other powers (the 1st deus ex machina) and her then complete return of said powers by Jesus Aang. And she can suddenly spirit bend too. I also think they pushed Tarlok too far into villain territory when he instituted martial law, to probably make him seem like a red herring for Amon.

Season 2 I think would be better off being written out. Officially aborted. I've complained elsewhere in the forum history here about it. The animation took a nosedive in quality and so did the plot. Virtually none of the big plot threads in season one get followed up on except Mako and Korra are an item. Korra seems more insufferable in this season just to create artificial drama. Beifong looks incompetent. Bolin seems like a giant douche. We retread Mako's relationship mistakes of season one. We get introduced to the spirit world, which is now just Avatar Narnia. Anyone can just go into the spirit world if they can just make it through the portal. I know I'm really in the minority on this one but I think the Wan stories were garbage. ATLA established the bending came from the study of mystic animals of each nation/tribe. Even if I take the whole lionturtles gave bending to whoever wanted it, I still can't see how Aang or anyone else would have never mentioned Raava or Vaatu. Or harmonic convergence. Throw in the complete destruction of the avatar connection and you have at this point wiped out everything about ATLA you had going into this other than superpowers. I'll let the series of deux ex machina events of the finale and Korra's call to keep the spirit portals open just be.

Season 3 was just building more on the convolution that came from season 2. Airbending is back cause... spirit magic. And ordinary people out of the gate are airbending better than Korra was (the avatar, undergoing constant training from an airbending master for months). And a man who has been locked up for seemingly two decades can outmaneuver seasoned bending masters left and right. And unlocks Superman flying capability. And a guy can lavabend to the point of collapsing mountains. And Bolin can do it too... I mean this series is like the Metal Gear Solid games in the amount of bullshit that occurs in each subsequent story arc. We leave season 3 somewhere we should have left season one.

Coming back we find out Korra got better. Which pretty much answered the only important question to be had from the season 3 finale. Then in a flashback sequence we see how Korra got from the 3 finale to the 4 premiere. I think too much time is spent on Korra getting past her mental blocks. Waaay too much time spent on Prince Wu. And we go into the final episodes to get massive tech jumps and easy outs for the main characters. I think Mako should have gone down, altho there was no reason for his sacrifice at the moment. And coincidence, Kuvira shuffles away from the wreckage of her mech to find the gun, fires it and Korra blocks the shot... I had a feeling the show being called Legend of Korra and the fact that the entire uniqueness of the avatar had been negated at this point that Korra might meet her end somehow. And facing an unprecedented weapon of destruction she took head on, she came out unharmed. And this was yet another scene with no explanation at all. And while I think Korra & Asami relationship almost came from nowhere (most of the "hints" are just platonic interactions or at least ambiguous from them) it hardly compares to the spirit beam cannon bending block.

 

[KazeAizen]

Maybe it's not completely fair to compare the pro bending to the real fights, but that begs the question of why they needed to include the pro bending at all when it is so boring in comparison. In ATLA there was that underground earthbending arena and that was so much more interesting compared to pro bending where they have such heavy restrictions that it makes bending completely dull. And I never could figure out the rules to pro bending either, it seemed to be completely random when a team scored a point and how many points they needed to win. I would have much preferred more gladiatorial style bending arenas. And, honestly, I don't remember any other fights from the first 2 seasons that were a whole lot better than any of the pro bending matches, maybe a bit but they all suffered from the same problems that you mentioned. Not using the elements as the environment pretty much goes against the whole concept of bending, which is to manipulate the elements that make up the environment.

*realises American gladiator persona and bending would be the most awesome and hilarious combination ever*

Pro bending is a interesting concept with bad execution so it was kinda good it was dropped. I also don't remember much about the first 2 seasons, ironically it seems like the weakest fights are from Korra herself (Yet again i think character wise Korra is not a skilled fighter). Look at some of the side characters fight and the projectiles usage is significantly less than korra.

So im saying i agree with you and it kinda sucks cause now i will notice it more XD.At the same rate though im also saying Korra seems to be the least impressive fighter (Even Non avatar state Aang has some of the most basic fights. Not bad by a long stretch but compare it to toph and katara in some fights and you see the difference and that makes sense since he learns all four elements unlike katara and toph who learnt only one there entire life). Its the same with Korra she has the weakest fights when you compare them to stuff like Bolin and Lin because she doesn't specialise in a single element and it even worse with Korra since unlike Aang, who learnt and master air for most of his childhood,Korra learnt Fire,Water and Earth basically at the same time so she is more inexperienced with the finer details of each element.

I'd argue Korra is the most skilled combatant on the team. Even more so than Aang was. She was actually shown to be capable in no bending situations and without her bending. Yes Aang was also capable without his bending but he never actually fought in that case. He just turned around until he tripped someone. She could actually subdue someone and fight someone in a non bending environment.

Also "learnt" tell me that is a regional thing or something.

 

[KazeAizen]

Airbending is back cause... spirit magic.

Sorry but I really take issue with this school of thought. This world is very much alive with forces beyond human understanding. This is more of a philosophical thing than a plot thing. Philosophical in that sometimes you just can't fix everything alone. Even if it is your job to do it. While peace had been restored after the 100 year war it was still far from "balanced". The Airbenders were always at the razor's edge of extinction. When this Harmonic Convergence came along it was as if the planet itself was trying to restore balance back to the four elements. It gave the world new Airbenders so that the Air Nomads could truly rebuild. In all honesty its really not that different from Aang taking away Fire Lord Ozai's bending. Sometimes, despite the best efforts of the people, the world itself needs to intervene to help restore balance. You could read a lot into that if you choose to.

Coming back we find out Korra got better. Which pretty much answered the only important question to be had from the season 3 finale. Then in a flashback sequence we see how Korra got from the 3 finale to the 4 premiere. I think too much time is spent on Korra getting past her mental blocks. Waaay too much time spent on Prince Wu. And we go into the final episodes to get massive tech jumps and easy outs for the main characters. I think Mako should have gone down, altho there was no reason for his sacrifice at the moment. And coincidence, Kuvira shuffles away from the wreckage of her mech to find the gun, fires it and Korra blocks the shot...

And here I think you just have a very low suspension of disbelief and in the minority camp on the people who think they took too much time on Korra's recovery.[/quote]

 

[StormShaun]

Edit: I had too much fun with this. Please don't take it seriously. Especially that one person.

The show, to me, was like a roller coaster. Except this coaster had a low amount of highs, and a very low amount of small hills to get over. So basically, it varied, but most of the time it was okay. At the very end, I thought the show was okay, yes, worse than The Last Airbender. The show did have it's rememberable parts, but a lot of it was very forgettable, and I thought a lot of the effort put into some characters, should have went into others.

I have a more in-depth/asshole/crazy/parody(?) look at the whole thing.
So excuse my language, lack of sight, social mistakes, and biased thoughts.
Whoever is going to read this, I hope you don't pass out from my lack of grammar/spelling. This isn't my usual writing style on here.

[hr]

Spoiler: StormShaun Presenting: Big biased text. It's like a commentary of suppressed thoughts, a road to insanity, and I finally get to vent my dickery.

Book 1: Air/Fartbending. Of course this built the characters, world, lore, and the first big thing the current Avatar does. This placed Korra as the person as she is, a hothead who has a lot to learn. She has to go up against the villain Amon, which I thought was a great character, I feel like he should have been used a bit more, and that his plan was rather good, and raised the bar. Which the next book villains will never be able to meet. The other characters introduced were neat, I do understand that Tenzin's part was good, but Milo ... as I will say, I couldn't handle the Milo, I felt he was there just to add those childish gags, which is understandable since this was still aired on the Nick channel, still, I wished that Milo wasn't there. I also had to admit, Bumi was awesome needed more of him. As with Korra herself ... well, I don't remember much about the little things. I think Korra did go through the air bending training, but it didn't exactly change her much. That, and I don't think he climax was that great ... but man, poor Amon.

Oh yeah, I forgot how Korra got dun fucked with her bending, thanks to Amon, but resolved thanks to her connection to past Avatars ... that was nice, though thanks to the next book, they dun fucked that up ...

This was an okay start.

Book 2: A religious experience of horror. I ... I don't actually remember much about the smaller things from this book. Of course I remember such highlights about the first Avatar, Korra's failed romances, and the weird ass big events. Anyway, this was the book where I noticed Korra hasn't changed much. I will admit, with characters, I liked Bolin met his ice queen, they could have had more fun with that, especially how the twin brother could have switched places, and made it funny on a more adult level. Anyway, I don't remember much about the book. The main villain was rather shit. No motivation, a lack of personality, and even more weird reasoning for doing what he did. The real villain was introduced, who seemed to be the biggest villain in the series, to me at least. The big bad spirit who is the source of evil and etc ... usually final boss material. Anyway, Korra goes to defeat Vaatu, gets smacked, ends up in a trans which allows us to see Avatar Wan, an interesting side story, should have happened sooner. Then all I remember after that, the death of Raava which ... urh ... ends the Avatar cycle, disconnecting Korra from all of her past lives. That, that rather pissed me off. It's like Aang saying "Don't worry, we'll be here for you", and suddenly he's fucking sucked up by a vacuum of bad, just plain bad. Then at the end, Korra tries to do well, "Deus Ex Jinora" as people call her, comes down to save the day. Ultimately giving a short battle before ending ... not climatic once more. Then the resolution when Korra decided to open the spirit portals, thinking that the world is ready. I thought this was interesting, because she thinks the world is ready. It also looked like she gave Avatar Wan (currently in the plain bad vacuum of writing) the finger.

... oh yeah, Iroh was in this. We needed more of him. And more of that Eska and Bolin romance, now that was interesting. My interest in the romance in this series dwindled until Varric and Zhu Li made theirs.

This season ... yeah, not good at all.
They should have made Jinora better.

Book 3: The team finally got some change. Surprise, not much does. Korra hasn't changed since the last or first season (in my opinion). They add more characters with the Beifong family, which aren't bad. Adds a romance for Bolin (No revenge of Eska. Aww), and gives Korra metal bending. Also, the villains are a team, like a "Team Anti-Avatar". I thought the villains in this were rather interesting, and that they, the Beifong sisters, and other people gave birth to the best battle this damned series have ever seen. Sure, this battle doesn't beat the Ozai and Aang finale (nothing will), but it still somewhat quenched my thirst for a good battle. Other than that, I think it went well. The team travelled to look for more airbenders, the airbenders tried to make a home for themselves, and the villains fucks it all up. The only bad thing I disliked was ... that Korra felt quite weak, especially when she got kidnapped. I know she has a lack of power thanks to "the vortex of bad", which took a lot of my Avatar state power, but still. This was the book that seemed very similar to the original Aang series, and I think it ended okay. They needed a better fight with Avatar state Korra Vs Big bad daddy flying Zaheer. It was kinda ruined by the Airbenders/Korra's lack of power. It ends, Jinora becomes a master, Korra is in a wheelchair in the sad state, all ends well, right?

Oh, and of course the only romance is Bolin and Opal, not bad ... still, I wanted Eska to make a comeback. Quite a few characters get forgotten.
Plus, Zuko comes back for a short time.

Rating: The best book.
Comparison: It's like if Twilight had a best book out of the series.

Book 4: A somewhat good Unbalance? Okay first thing first, Korra, still poisoned is sad. The biggest change for her so far!
So, of course she leaves on an adventure, and discovers she is weak. After becoming even more sad, she wants to beat add with her new short hair. I like this look. Discovers Toph, gets rid of poison, returns to normal. "yaaaaaaaay" [sub][sub][sub]Couldn't she lose an arm, eye, or brain? Something to make her change more![/sub][/sub][/sub] One the other side of the world. Bolin, who, I forgot to say, discovers he has badass lava powers. What does he do? He's wants to do good. This I liked, but when we come around to the villain start-up, Opal thinks he's bad, and leaves him. Of course this makes him sad, which is a good thing. Oh, and the villain, uh ... whoooooo ... I'll just call her Ms. Forgotten. So this villain has an army of people and mechs, with one of Beifong's boys. Smarts, people, and mechs, this is going to turn out great! This army is trying to calm down the Earth kingdom ... of course they take it over. It doesn't take long before the world goes, "Hey ... that ain't right, they haven't paid taxes!"
The army turns to the BaiFong Metal city (which as no mechs surprisingly, especially since they had Varric in their service). They gonna wreck it, the BaiFong family try to take her down, fail, get captured. Korra comes back (this text ain't in order. It's all from my memory) with all of her same-ish glory, but her, nice hair right? She's gonna beat Ms. Forgotten's ass, gets hers beat instead. "yaaaaaaaaay" for good fighting. Of course this is because she still has poison in her (as mentioned before, I ain't doing this in order). Meanwhile Bolin, Varric (aka the best character), and Zhu Li (aka the best heroine), discover that they are forced to make a evil super weapon. Bolin finally goes, "shit, the somewhat evil leader IS EVIL!". The three try to escape, but get dun fucked. BUT, BUT, there is a great battle here too, mechs, mechs, and lavabending, all lovely stuff. This series needed more of it. So after being captured, Zhu Li "turns" sides. Bolin and Varric do there great escape (another great part of this book), and tell everyone about everything. Bolin tries to make it up to Opal, showing all of his love, almost gets rejected, but Opal gets him to help with freeing her family. Everyone is free, they see a giant cannon, rescue Zhu Li, and leave. Varric and Zhu Li get a lovely moment, but the show must go one! Giant mech ... Ms. Forgotten has one. I'm surprised no one said, "how did they hide that?" So there is a battle in the city, the usual happens, small events until big battle. By the way, the best thing in this book was Varrick and Zhu Li, becauase they do the thing ... which was proposing. So yes, they get rid of the mech, Ms. Forgotten and Average Korra do the usual, except they dun fucked up again, and the super weapon (is sitting in some nice spirit vines) completely blows a hole into the planet, creating another portal. To be honest, I didn't care what happened next, this finale is meh. So other stuff happened, and we finally see Zhu Li and Varrick get married. Now that is "Doing the thing". Then there is something about Korra being reassured, and everyone gets the whole Korra and Asami moment ... which I don't give an inch of care about really, not enough development. Zhu Li and Varrick is all I can think of in that moment.

The two step into the spirit portal, and on the other side, they finally get eaten by Iroh ... what else do you think he wanted?! (Unofficial, sadly)

And everyone lived happily ever after.
Except the climax, the climax died in a horrible accident after trying to enter the story. In fact, he entered a time portal, and somehow ended up in book 3, with his bloody mangled body trying to do something with Big Papa floaty and angry Chicken Pakora.

Rating: "DO THE THING" ... they did the thing. Sadly no finale to compare with The Last Airbender.
BUT HEY, we got more Zhu Li and Varrick, that's all I wanted.

[hr]

Phew.
Okay, I've finally done it. There are my thoughts. My bad, biased thoughts.
Now, I'm going to leave. So I never have to look back at this again.
Hey, look on the bright side, at least I won't be a dick on this site for a few years.

If the writers see this, uh, sorry.
I couldn't help it after reading so many good books!
Sorry that you were the thing I vented on.

 

[mmmikey]

Sorry but I really take issue with this school of thought. This world is very much alive with forces beyond human understanding. This is more of a philosophical thing than a plot thing. Philosophical in that sometimes you just can't fix everything alone. Even if it is your job to do it. While peace had been restored after the 100 year war it was still far from "balanced". The Airbenders were always at the razor's edge of extinction. When this Harmonic Convergence came along it was as if the planet itself was trying to restore balance back to the four elements. It gave the world new Airbenders so that the Air Nomads could truly rebuild. In all honesty its really not that different from Aang taking away Fire Lord Ozai's bending. Sometimes, despite the best efforts of the people, the world itself needs to intervene to help restore balance. You could read a lot into that if you choose to.

It was cheap. Aang's spirit bending was somewhat in the same vein, but I can follow a trail to it I can't with the presto-airbendo that happened season 3. So a lionturtle (a most ancient creature previously mentioned in the series and believed to hold great knowledge/power) actually bestowed the knowledge onto Aang to spiritbend. And not really the planet acting on the avatar's behalf. Aang sought a non-lethal solution to stop the firelord, and in meditation was beckoned to swim to and climb the lionturtle. If anything was THE ancient art in this world it would be the inherent ability to bend at all (which is admittedly never fully explained) These were ordinary people already well into adulthood and adolescence of normal non-bending lives suddenly bestowed the ability and some aptitude without any training.

There was no logical leap to reason that leaving the spirit portals open airbenders would spontaneously return. I'm not completely following your line of argument. I'm willing to hear you out if you feel like you can elaborate on it.

And here I think you just have a very low suspension of disbelief and in the minority camp on the people who think they took too much time on Korra's recovery.

I don't know if my source of issues with the series lies so much with low suspension of disbelief as much as the creators' trashing the rules they established in their own series. But looking from the responses so far I know I'm in the minority.

This part of the season 4 narrative felt like the ending fatigue I had in watching The Return of the King. We see Korra up and about, bending well enough to compete in underground fighting, albeit in a losing fashion. We have one episode devoted to her getting rehab to the point she's self sufficient. Then after some time with Toph she can access the Avatar state after getting the last remnants of poison out (at this point we're to believe Korra keeps this inside by resisting treatments cause of mental block). So she moves beyond mental block and is seemingly over it. We get to the one on one with Kuvira and then once again Nega-Korra rears up. So we're right back on the trauma path.

I wouldn't mind a handicapped avatar. Or an avatar who really had to struggle with psychological roadblocks. But the false finishes they felt the need to repeat seemed like wasted narrative space. I remember someone mentioning they'd rather Korra have reservations about killing Kuvira in that moment.

So even going with this Korra decides she has to face the progenitor of this condition, the main bad guy of season 3, Zaheer. And for 5 minutes of dialogue we have Korra once again and finally accept the raw hand she was dealt. This deserved at least half an episode worth of attention.

In what they knew was the final season, I think they devoted maybe one episode too many on Korra's psychological recovery. And broken across several episodes.

 

[FPLOON]

-the "do the thing" snip-

Wow... Reading all that was like watching someone go from having their first drink to just being plain drunk, all while they spoke coherently enough to make enough sense to prove how much of what they were saying was mostly opinion-based, at best...

In other words, that was a roller-coaster of a retrospective... <color=white>And I loved it!

Spoiler: My favorite part

Book 3: The team finally got some change.
Rating: The best book.
Comparison: It's like if Twilight had a best book out of the series.

 

[gandhi the peacemake]

Spoiler: KazeAizen

I'd argue Korra is the most skilled combatant on the team. Even more so than Aang was.

She was more skilled at the outset of the show. At the same time, she never really... DID much with that skill. Where she has skill, she lacks ingenuity and creativity. Aang uses his waterbending to slice through metal, then earthbending to create a wedge out of a boulder, then airbending to run up and back down a wall in order to gain speed, then earthbending again to drive the wedge into the metal where he had weakened it with waterbending. This in order to take down a massive drilling machine. Korra shoots air at a giant robot. Then she shoots and freezes water at a giant robot. Then she shoots air at Kuvira.

While peace had been restored after the 100 year war it was still far from "balanced". The Airbenders were always at the razor's edge of extinction. When this Harmonic Convergence came along it was as if the planet itself was trying to restore balance back to the four elements. It gave the world new Airbenders so that the Air Nomads could truly rebuild.

That's... looking at things from a very human-centric perspective. Do the spirits really care all that much how many humans can airbend? Perhaps they do, but only inasmuch as it pertains to, as you say, keeping balance. The sky bison population, which was supposedly reduced to one by the end of the 100-year war, is now flourishing again, and the originators of airbending (sans Wan story retcon) are on the rise. And the air nomads themselves have restored their population by over 400% since being virtually extinct. Sure they're still woefully on the verge of extinction, but they're recovering. Nature, and the spirits, measure time in epochs. Moreover, they react to human atrocities against them but otherwise remain outside the affairs of humans. It bothers me that the creators decided to retcon this so that the corporeal and the non-corporeal interact directly like they do.

Spoiler: njrk97

*realises American gladiator persona and bending would be the most awesome and hilarious combination ever*

Spoiler: ***Spoiler Box Says Click Me***Kind of like this?

Korra seems to be the least impressive fighter

Except for small pockets here and there, this is very much the case. She's shown in the beginning to be an incredible bender, way more of a prodigy than Aang ever was, but her bending never really evolves beyond direct attacks. She fights against Kuvira at Zaofu the same way she fights against pro-benders in the ring. It's boring.

Spoiler: mmikey

I'm really only a fan on season one. It had sharp animation the whole run, great world building (or city since it's almost all contained in Republic City). Introduced the tech and fashion/culture of the times. And put a great debate up in a sovereign city about the bender/nonbender, inherent and otherwise, inequality.
...
My biggest nagging plot elements are Korra not airbending til after getting robbed of her other powers (the 1st deus ex machina) and her then complete return of said powers by Jesus Aang. And she can suddenly spirit bend too.

1.) Agreed, season 1 is easily the best of the four.

2.) If I remember correctly, she airbends before that, just in sporadic bursts, never reliably. I take bigger issue with how bloodbending is capable of stopping one's bending at all, though clearly it's nothing more than snake oil. That she breaks free of its hold on her and manages to airbend isn't particularly surprising.

3.) Spirit/energy bending was possible the moment Aang learned it, no?

Season 2 I think would be better off being written out. Officially aborted. I've complained elsewhere in the forum history here about it.
...
We get introduced to the spirit world, which is now just Avatar Narnia. Anyone can just go into the spirit world if they can just make it through the portal. I know I'm really in the minority on this one but I think the Wan stories were garbage.

1.) I still maintain that it's not nearly as bad as people think it is. It has its faults, but no more than the two season that followed it. Delving into the spirit world definitely has potential, except...

2.) Avatar Narnia really makes me scratch my head. What WERE they thinking?

3.) Wan's story, on its own, was a wonderful thing to see. You're right in that it (and harmonic convergence, and Raava/Vaatu, and the lionturtles, and etc.) retcons the crap out of Avatar, but on its own, it's still a really beautiful work of animation.

Throw in the complete destruction of the avatar connection and you have at this point wiped out everything about ATLA you had going into this other than superpowers.

This, very much this. It feels like they wanted so badly to distinguish LoK from TLA that they pretty much rehauled the entire mythology. It's a real shame, especially when there was a more elegant way to markedly distance the two just sitting out in the open: Korra never regains her bending. An Avatar that has to fulfill her Avatar duties without her Avatar powers would have been amazing. Perhaps she finally devotes herself to her spiritual training, and that's where she develops her attunement to the spirits. Develop that idea further, and you get a book that more perfectly encapsulates the themes of Spirit than what we got.

Season 3 was just building more on the convolution that came from season 2. Airbending is back cause... spirit magic.
...
And a man who has been locked up for seemingly two decades can outmaneuver seasoned bending masters left and right. And unlocks Superman flying capability. And a guy can lavabend to the point of collapsing mountains. And Bolin can do it too...

1.) Let's say Book 2 happens differently, more competently, with the same general outcome: the human world and spirit world bleed into each other more easily and regularly. People spontaneously developing bending powers isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination. Though the way they had Tenzin and co. go about recruiting them certainly was head-slapping levels of bad.

2.) People like to hold up the Red Lotus as some sort of return to glory, when really they're... just as villain of the week as Unalaq. Lavabending makes zero sense whatsoever. It's cool that Bolin discovers this as an ability, but it's something that has never ever existed in the Avatar world, and all of a sudden it just gets thrown out there. For nearly the entire season, I wasn't even sure if it was earthbending or just firebending channeled through stone.

And facing an unprecedented weapon of destruction she took head on, she came out unharmed. And this was yet another scene with no explanation at all.

I assumed it was energy/spirit bending in one shape or another that she decided to try out of desperation, but it seems not many others agree. That would have been very interesting, indeed. How do you bend spirit energy that's been made into physical form? How does it affect you? Where do you redirect it, if you do so at all? If, judging by the explosion that followed, she was concentrating it into a space, what was that space and how does that result in tearing apart the fabric between the worlds?

The whole spirit vines as Materia thing was rather cringe-worthy to begin with, but again, it could have been something very, very interesting. Just kind of... half-baked in execution.

 

[Drathnoxis]

As a fan of season one I'll do my best to defend the probending on that it helped build up the new world feel the LoK series had. Season 1 was really the only season that helped set this series apart from the old. Republic City felt the most fleshed out of all the locations used in LoK. The probending events was where the common people celebrated bending. We also get introduced to Mako and Bolin though it. And Amon does his biggest attack in the buildup to the finale here. I think it was a step back in that it wiped out the form basis of bending from ATLA.

I would agree with this, and yet I still feel there is no excuse for it taking up roughly half the season and amounting to nothing that wasn't established in the first match. I would have actually liked the pro bending if it allowed for some spectacular displays of bending, instead of being so restrictive (if anywhere deserves to have flashy bending battles, it's an arena in front of a cheering crowd.) And also, you know, had a reason for taking up so much screen time.

I think you also mentioned in a earlier post that Amon was stupid to reveal himself in the towering vortex, I'm pretty sure he was reacting on instinct since he was in danger of drowning (knocked out a window, into water, partially unconscious).

I had never considered this, but it's pretty much the only way of explaining why he suddenly got a case of the stupids. That he was literally knocked silly.

I know I'm really in the minority on this one but I think the Wan stories were garbage. ATLA established the bending came from the study of mystic animals of each nation/tribe. Even if I take the whole lionturtles gave bending to whoever wanted it, I still can't see how Aang or anyone else would have never mentioned Raava or Vaatu. Or harmonic convergence.

This is all completely true (I never saw the lion turtles give no bending to any badger moles), and yet I still enjoyed the Wan story much more than anything else in season 2. Just by virtue of Wan being a likable character that actually learned from his mistakes and had an arc.

The thing is, having to use several different strategies to win does not make one inherently superior to someone who only has to use one or two. Tarrlok's little sphere and ice bullets were a better strategy than anything from Katara and Paku's fight. He didn't have to make ice waves or hose Korra down because he was in a great defensive position and was aiming to do more than discourage her. And Korra, after trying and failing to dodge and punch the ice, creates a barrier to cover herself and then destroys the source of his water and sends him over a railing, ending the fight.

If, for instance, Paku opened with what he finishes with in their fight, and won then and there, would you say that he lacks skill or strategy?

Certainly not, but I never saw Tarloc or Korra do something that requires as much skill as trapping someone with icicles without injuring them. That and Tarloc was beaten by a slow moving wall. And at least Katara and Paku had different strategies. The number of times that Korra went rushing headlong into a fight only to have it blow up in her face, over and over again, was just kind of pathetic.

Overall, I feel the variety of moves used in ATLA is a better spectacle, and at least gives me the impression that some strategy is being used. Not that the Tarloc one was a bad fight, I just think that Paku's is better. Someone in the thread compared the fighting in Avatar to a dance, and I think that's a good comparison. Korra's fights just lacked the graceful flow that the fights in Avatar possessed.

 

[Timmaaaah]

I feel like Season 1 was the best... Season 2 was great too. Everything just fit in nicely and it didn't get bogged down with a bunch of potentially great characters without enough screen time to go around. The final seasons were good but I felt like the show had lost a bit of its soul somehow...
And why the HELL would they give Zuko a fucking dragon but not even let him fight? I know he's old, but if you can ride a dragon, you can use it to attack things. Would have been so incredible to see him take on the Colossus to buy Korra some time to take Kuvira down

 

[njrk97]

I'd argue Korra is the most skilled combatant on the team. Even more so than Aang was. She was actually shown to be capable in no bending situations and without her bending. Yes Aang was also capable without his bending but he never actually fought in that case. He just turned around until he tripped someone. She could actually subdue someone and fight someone in a non bending environment.

Korra was capable in a no bending situation because unlike Aang she was raised without the ideology of air bending which was focused around evasiveness and doing the minimum amount of blows to subdue a target. Korra was more uncultured so she was more inclined to punch instead of dodge.

What i means by unskilled is more that i believe is she fought Bolin and could only use earthbending she would loose, the same with Mako or Desna/Eska. Basically i think most of the other benders are better at there element than she is at there element which like i said makes sense so she has to learn and master four elements.

Also "learnt" tell me that is a regional thing or something.

(Australian English)
I never thought about it but i was taught it was past tense for learn so it made sense since out of universe we are now up to Katara and Toph being old so they had stopped learning bending.

 

[K12]

Note that I never saw past Book Two, so there is that.

Apologies if several other people have told you this already but Book 3 and 4 are quite a lot better than books 1 and 2. They don't spend too much time faffing with uninteresting side stuff (i.e. pro-bending and tedious love triangle stuff)

Book 1 was fine but felt like wasted potential to me and book 2 was mostly boring but with some fun imagery and the really great "Beginnings" episodes.

 

[Eddie the head]

But wait, they had lesbians in the finale so that makes it the bestest show ever.

I hate to agree but I can really identify with this cynicism. That was a poor romance shown, but it gets off the hook because it was a gay romance. In retrospect I like the love triangle more in the fist season, at least there was something to overcome. It wasn't good, but in the end I would rather sniff a fart then sniff shit.

More on topic. I don't know I liked parts I didn't' like others. One thing I can say I didn't like was they made the spirit world too normal. They took the magic out of it it's no longer this weird mysterious place it's just a place. Maybe that's just over overexposure I don't know.

 

[Saetha]

Note that I never saw past Book Two, so there is that.

Apologies if several other people have told you this already but Book 3 and 4 are quite a lot better than books 1 and 2. They don't spend too much time faffing with uninteresting side stuff (i.e. pro-bending and tedious love triangle stuff)

Book 1 was fine but felt like wasted potential to me and book 2 was mostly boring but with some fun imagery and the really great "Beginnings" episodes.

A lot of people have, and my answer to that remains the same - "it gets better" is no excuse. Bad writing is bad writing, and taking two seasons to get to the good bits is bad writing.

 

[MiskWisk]

I went with "okay," although for comparison's sake I rate the original series as "solid" but still consider it a great series. The series had its weaknesses but I ultimately found the characters enjoyable and I liked the flaws and the development they went through to move past them.

I will blame Nick for most of the problems though. Shorter seasons cutting out more than two hours of time to develop the characters and the plot, reduced budget and dicking the creators around with regards to how many actual seasons were going to need to be produced. Maybe if these hadn't happened it still wouldn't be as good as TLA but we shall never know. We also wouldn't have had Korra's damn annoying regression in character at the start of season two.

 

[K12]

Note that I never saw past Book Two, so there is that.

Apologies if several other people have told you this already but Book 3 and 4 are quite a lot better than books 1 and 2. They don't spend too much time faffing with uninteresting side stuff (i.e. pro-bending and tedious love triangle stuff)

Book 1 was fine but felt like wasted potential to me and book 2 was mostly boring but with some fun imagery and the really great "Beginnings" episodes.

A lot of people have, and my answer to that remains the same - "it gets better" is no excuse. Bad writing is bad writing, and taking two seasons to get to the good bits is bad writing.

I agree completely, my point was more along the lines that it's a shame to watch through the poorer parts of a show and quit just before it starts living up to its own potential.

 

[mmmikey]

I'm really only a fan on season one. It had sharp animation the whole run, great world building (or city since it's almost all contained in Republic City). Introduced the tech and fashion/culture of the times. And put a great debate up in a sovereign city about the bender/nonbender, inherent and otherwise, inequality.
...
My biggest nagging plot elements are Korra not airbending til after getting robbed of her other powers (the 1st deus ex machina) and her then complete return of said powers by Jesus Aang. And she can suddenly spirit bend too.

1.) Agreed, season 1 is easily the best of the four.

2.) If I remember correctly, she airbends before that, just in sporadic bursts, never reliably. I take bigger issue with how bloodbending is capable of stopping one's bending at all, though clearly it's nothing more than snake oil. That she breaks free of its hold on her and manages to airbend isn't particularly surprising.

3.) Spirit/energy bending was possible the moment Aang learned it, no?

1.) Refreshing to hear admidst all the praise for season 3.

2a.) I just rewatched the first season. She mentions getting motions down perfect but as successfully airbending goes, it's not achieved til Amon almost has Mako under his thumb.

2b.) Bloodbending interrupts bending by immobilizing the other combatant. I think the far reach in the series was that it was psychic. Every other bloodbending was traditionally on full moons (water bending at its strongest) and still required waterbending technique but more seemed more intricate (akin to puppeteering a marionette doll)

3.)In the closing scene Aang appears as if he was really there. Corporally reassembled. In ATLA Roku would appear, but only like deceased Jedi in Star Wars. A ghost to communicate and guide but not directly interfere. Here Aang seemingly spirit bends Korra's abilities back & pass on the spirit bending knowledge. I can grant the passage of knowledge onto her, since that is a inherent ability of the avatar, but unless this was a symbolic way of spirit bending herself its jumping outside the rules the series sets on itself.

Season 2 I think would be better off being written out. Officially aborted. I've complained elsewhere in the forum history here about it.
...
We get introduced to the spirit world, which is now just Avatar Narnia. Anyone can just go into the spirit world if they can just make it through the portal. I know I'm really in the minority on this one but I think the Wan stories were garbage.

1.) I still maintain that it's not nearly as bad as people think it is. It has its faults, but no more than the two season that followed it. Delving into the spirit world definitely has potential, except...

2.) Avatar Narnia really makes me scratch my head. What WERE they thinking?

3.) Wan's story, on its own, was a wonderful thing to see. You're right in that it (and harmonic convergence, and Raava/Vaatu, and the lionturtles, and etc.) retcons the crap out of Avatar, but on its own, it's still a really beautiful work of animation.

1-2.) I found the overall execution of the spirit world, on the whole, in LoK infantile.

3.) I won't deny the quality of animation. I think these 2 episodes stand out because they're the oasis in the desert. Look beautiful and have the advantage of having a clear beginning, middle, and end in a get it done fashion the rest of the series doesn't. The fact it rewrites EVERYTHING in the mythos up to this point is the issue. I've read enough comic books to realize that retcons have a purpose when you have a mythos/backstory so convoluted or just plain bad it needs to be overhauled. The Avatar universe was not in this situation.

Throw in the complete destruction of the avatar connection and you have at this point wiped out everything about ATLA you had going into this other than superpowers.

This, very much this. It feels like they wanted so badly to distinguish LoK from TLA that they pretty much rehauled the entire mythology. It's a real shame, especially when there was a more elegant way to markedly distance the two just sitting out in the open: Korra never regains her bending. An Avatar that has to fulfill her Avatar duties without her Avatar powers would have been amazing. Perhaps she finally devotes herself to her spiritual training, and that's where she develops her attunement to the spirits. Develop that idea further, and you get a book that more perfectly encapsulates the themes of Spirit than what we got.

Gotta just say I would be totally on board for something like this. Way more organic and interesting direction than what was actually done.

Season 3 was just building more on the convolution that came from season 2. Airbending is back cause... spirit magic.
...
And a man who has been locked up for seemingly two decades can outmaneuver seasoned bending masters left and right. And unlocks Superman flying capability. And a guy can lavabend to the point of collapsing mountains. And Bolin can do it too...

1.) Let's say Book 2 happens differently, more competently, with the same general outcome: the human world and spirit world bleed into each other more easily and regularly. People spontaneously developing bending powers isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination. Though the way they had Tenzin and co. go about recruiting them certainly was head-slapping levels of bad.

2.) People like to hold up the Red Lotus as some sort of return to glory, when really they're... just as villain of the week as Unalaq. Lavabending makes zero sense whatsoever. It's cool that Bolin discovers this as an ability, but it's something that has never ever existed in the Avatar world, and all of a sudden it just gets thrown out there. For nearly the entire season, I wasn't even sure if it was earthbending or just firebending channeled through stone.

1a.) I read your other response questioning why should the spirit world really care to the point to intervene instantaneously on airbending behalf. Why wouldn't it wipe out benders across the board to make only a handful of benders in all elements? Were these people of several generations airbender blood? And what little we see of the spirit world in ATLA shows us a hostile world. Even to the avatar. Why would it suddenly just thrust airbending onto a wide swathe of the population (almost entirely earth nation)

1b) The recruitment was a mess. I can't see Tenzin, even with the burden and pressure of reestablishing the air nation, going so far as being complicit in forcing people to leave all they've ever known to abandon their everyday lives and be a monk. And it was backward paces for Korra as well I'd say. Their mission was incredibly myopic.

2,) The only mention we get of lavabending is a previous avatar combining earth and fire bending to achieve it. The scale of this guy's power was unreal. He wasn't even bending anymore when the Avatar gang was running for their lives. And just like Korra's airbending, when it saves the group from out of nowhere, Bolin can lavabend.

And a small aside, it annoyed me throughout seasons 2-4 that Mako sat on his lightning bending through most conflicts and Bolin sat on lavabending. Both rare and tilting the scale of any conflict considerably in their favor, and yet stick to the basics 95% of the time.

And facing an unprecedented weapon of destruction she took head on, she came out unharmed. And this was yet another scene with no explanation at all.

I assumed it was energy/spirit bending in one shape or another that she decided to try out of desperation, but it seems not many others agree. That would have been very interesting, indeed. How do you bend spirit energy that's been made into physical form? How does it affect you? Where do you redirect it, if you do so at all? If, judging by the explosion that followed, she was concentrating it into a space, what was that space and how does that result in tearing apart the fabric between the worlds?

The whole spirit vines as Materia thing was rather cringe-worthy to begin with, but again, it could have been something very, very interesting. Just kind of... half-baked in execution.

I think it would have been better that both characters died in this act. The avatar cycle is ended all together(spirit & physical worlds merged, all past connections lost, vaatu defeated, why not?).

I thought when Kuvira walked into the jungle of spirit vines, that had previously come to life to possess/depose people's spirits, that they would be the end of her. They surprised me by I'm gonna kill you good with my severed giant gun route. A weapon Korra was in the path of at least two other times (with her friends and lover in waiting) and she didn't jump in its path to stop it then. But hey let's endanger our life to save the ***** who's brought ruin to an entire densely populated city with no promise of what the outcome will be for doing so.

Ultimately what happens here is a gap we have to fill in on our own. She went into the avatar state, with no other knowledge to access. It's just the Avatar's super saiyan state at this point and I take it she bent the spirit energy. But I don't know how. She was never shown to be that great at influencing spirits in book 2, certainly not more than Unalaq, and here she's facing raw focused energy. What is there to tame? To speak to? I have to assume it's the atomic energy of spirits and she refocused it to, unintentionally or unknowingly, make a portal rather than be atomized by it.

I thought the probending part of the story could serve the same way that the Quidditch games did in the Harry Potter series, A way to introduce characters or have other parts of the narrative seep in and expand the story in the setting of the event. Hell we could even watch the matches move further and further out to the underground cage matches of season 4.

 

[StormShaun]

Wow... Reading all that was like watching someone go from having their first drink to just being plain drunk, all while they spoke coherently enough to make enough sense to prove how much of what they were saying was mostly opinion-based, at best...

In other words, that was a roller-coaster of a retrospective... <color=white>And I loved it!

Spoiler: My favorite part

Book 3: The team finally got some change.
Rating: The best book.
Comparison: It's like if Twilight had a best book out of the series.

I regret not being drunk.
It would have probably contained twice the humour, and twice the grammar/spelling mistakes.

Overall though, I have no regret for saying all of that.
Good thing I gave a warning.; I must say though, the worst thing that came from this whole great experience, is that when I look back on Korra, this is the only thing that will pop into my mind. XD