Poll: "Lack of skill" of other players is not a legit justification for being an asshole

[Jacco]

I have been playing GTA:O the last few days and I have come to absolutely loathe it because of all the high level players using tanks and assault rifles in lower level lobbies. Pretty much every lobby I go into has a 100+ level player just driving around in a tank killing everything that moves. Being a lower level, i think my character is 12, I don't have any way to compete with that which makes the game really frustrating and unlikable. So I went online to see what I could do to counter high level players in death matches and tanks using high level weapons and all I see are people on the Rockstar forums talking about how "if you don't have the skill to deal with them, then you deserve to be spawn raped" or "quite wining and get better at the game."

Now, these kinds of comments annoy me greatly. Not only does skill not factor into unlocking more powerful weapons with higher levels, but I, as a student and employee, do not have the time to spend 8 or 10 hours a day leveling up and getting "good." Nor would I want to. Where did this attitude among gamers come from that you have to be skilled to enjoy a video game? You see similar comments on Battlefield and CoD forums where people are asking for nerf'd guns and are shot down by other players who tell them to get better at the game.

I simply want to enjoy the little time I have playing video games and not have to pour 100's of hours into it just to get to a point where I can enjoy it. To me, that's not fun. Getting killed by someone in a tank that I literally have no means of defending against is not fun. Getting killed by machine gunners with the most powerful class weapons in Battlefield is not fun.

I don't get why you have to be "skilled" at the game to have fun, both from a design and a player standpoint.

Am I off the mark here? Am I being a little too sensitive or do you agree?

 

[Heronblade]

Completely agreed, and the situation you describe embodies exactly why I have come to avoid PvP games in nearly all forms. I play games to have a little fun and/or relieve stress. I have neither the time nor the inclination to find a way to match the skill level of a guy who spent 150+ hours practicing how to clear a room with his elite level dual handguns in 0.75 seconds, and getting killed by this same guy over and over again within moments of starting a match is not exactly a stress reliever.

 

[JoJo]

I agree to an extent, the reason I play Team Fortress 2 occasionally and Halo multiplayer never is that even as an unskilled noob, in TF2 I feel like I can contribute to a team and actually achieve something, whereas in Halo I literally get slaughtered every time I see an enemy and end up frustrated. I guess that's good for a player who's willing to dedicate many hours but for the casual player, it's doesn't work.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I often wonder how much those people would enjoy the game if they got exactly what they're asking for.

Okay, fine. We all quit. Yep. Every. Single. One. Of. Us. You and all those other players who are clearly soooooo good at this game are now the only ones playing it. Have fun playing against each other with the same skills. Man, I wish I could make that happen...

Anyway, no, you're not off the mark. It's why I stay away from multiplayer games. GTA:O sounds like it is horribly unbalanced for new players, while other multiplayer games at least have special lobbies that let new players play against other new players before kicking them to the wolves.

 

[Mech__Warrior]

Maybe just a little, but you do have a point. When I used to play Battlefield, I never had a problem with being outgunned because the only time skill mattered was when who could identify the target faster and start shooting. You could have the very best gun but still die because you keep running out in the open and getting sniped. You can't really do much against vehicles when you make first contact and even though it does suck to die to them, you could return the favor or even get the upper hand as an engineer with the rocket launcher. People don't always cry foul due to being killed by a mine or C4 because it happens. As for being outgunned due to character progression, I think you just need to stick with other players so that you stand a much better chance on killing another player.

'Skill' is something very hard to describe. The 'skill' that comes from hundreds of hours of play should be rewarded in some way, preferably with achievements or medals. 'Skill' that comes in the form of a better gun isn't really 'skill', it's just an item that gets the job done faster. You don't need to be skilled in any sense to still have fun, I used to have just as much fun hanging out in a squad with my clan and working together to complete an objective compared to using a tank to just own a column of infantry.

I'll bring up another example in a different game I play; Payday 2. In Payday 2, I frequently encounter people who immediately leave the party because we screw up one thing in the heist and set off the alarm. They either don't have the patience or flexibility of making the heist actually work, or they're some sort of machine where one screw-up makes them D/C immediately due to some error in their programming. It really bothers me that a player wouldn't want to play a mission out to completion because of the experience, only for character progression. It makes me wonder what kind of person they are.

Sorry if I got off the mark for a bit with the whole 'skill' definition, I felt like I had to define what is actually skillful and what isn't.

 

[Eamar]

It's never legit, because if you give someone grief for being less skilled than you, how are they ever meant to improve? And there's nothing wrong with purely playing for fun or just plain not being great at a game. I say this as a long term but decidedly poor to mediocre WoW player

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I think there should be separate lobbies for people who just want to have fun and for people who actually want to play competitively. That way people who have lower level gear, less playtime, and less skill can play together in one lobby, and players with high level skills who want to play against higher level people can play in their own lobby, with certain things restricted in each lobby to provide a more balanced and competitive atmosphere in one, and a more fun and carefree atmosphere in the other.

It does definitely suck to be on the losing end of a total stomping, but as someone who played as part of a competitive clan for a few years I can say that it also sucks when you're completely stomping another team and they can't offer any kind of resistance. The most fun games are the ones where everyone is on or near the same skill level.

I do however think that "get more skill" or "learn to play the game better" isn't necessarily a cop out answer. There are many games where there is a very simple technique that's a complete bane to new or inexperienced players and yet completely gets shut down and destroyed by players of a higher skill level, and in that case the answer really is to just get better at the game and not whine.

 

[Parasondox]

Oh GTA: Online. You aren't the only one and I see your point and I absolutely agree with you. I have played other multiplayer games but GTA: Online seems so one sided and broken. Not just the trolling players that has a higher level and purposely target those with an extremely lower level to build up their kill ratio (Level 96 targeting a level 15 over and over again WITH A TANK, how is that fair?) but worse is when the game itself punishes you for defending yourself eg. shooting at the person who is try to run you over as soon as you spawn for the millionth time but you blow up their car and you get a "bad sport" and put in a lobby with others who are too trigger happy. What other multiplayer game does that?

Whats worse is that its not skill that got them up to that level but some of the players are hackers. In the first 3 weeks of GTA: Online going up (if anyone actually had a chance to play the game thanks to bugs, bugs and more bugs, someone was ranked a level 250. 250??? Impossible in 3 weeks of a buggy game. I had a moment where I was going into the clothes store and shot out through the window by these two higher level players and they were both level 83 and 81 and I was a level 39. Once I respawned they came after me again and run over by a fast car they had. All I had was a shotgun, pistol and everything had no ammo. I was killed multiple times and whats about it was, if you die, your ammo gets taken away from the last weapon you were using. I had to quit to another lobby cause I was having no fun and all i wanted to do was just to get some new clothes.Passive mode is a load of crap cause they can still kill you by running you over. Then out of nowhere one of them message me through PSN itself and said "You are so shit you should go back to playing Hello Kitty". Yes apparently I am so shit, me being a lower level and them having a higher with access to more weapons and vehicles, that I should play Hello Kitty (I didn't know hello kitty had a game). I understand you have a more higher level which means more things but don't get big headed thinking you are superior to others. They have a tank and when they can easily kill everyone, they say over the mic "You are all fucking shit, you can't even kill me. Thank you mister tank man.

I thought the purpose of gaming was to have fun but looks like people just take it way too seriously and especially from those who play the game 12 hours a day and wonder why their console overheats

SIDE NOTE: I remember the last time I was on GTA: Online, I had players blowing up my cars left and right and they didnt get any bad sport notice and I had to pay for the insurance myself, but when i did the same back, I got a "bad sport" and payed for their car insurance. I had to quit that game because I was getting to annoyed to quickly at the amount of bad luck I was getting.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, of course, they're fucking idiots. How's anybody suppose to have fun when they're in the way of everything? PvP games are completely pointless in a massive online capacity. I have no idea why anyone bothers. It's not fun.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Being an asshole never has a justification. Sadly I've experienced this in every online multiplayer game I've ever played, and it's never fun. While Starcraft 2 tries to implement a system of players tiered by skill, it is seriously broken at the moment and there are lots of players who find ways to abuse it even when it's working properly.

While this is a situation I see steadily improving, I feel guides for basic moves and counters being a part of the game would be a big help. Not just 'how to play', but simple solutions to situations encountered frequently in playtesting.

 

[Rose and Thorn]

I stopped playing online games awhile ago. This is one of the reasons I stopped. So I agree, but like others have said, there is rarely a reason for being an asshole in the first place. People just suck and ruin the experience. *And by suck I mean suck at being a decent human being towards another human being

 

[shootthebandit]

This is why I loathe MMO RPGs. All the "best" players have simply been playing for longer and got the most exp and money

I played GTA:O for a couple of days after release and it was a mixed bag. One server me and this american dude decided to band together and rob liqour stores and do a few missions. It was really good fun although it was spoiled when we joined a new server full of "microtransaction wankers" you know the guys who have a tank and a cargobob 1 day after release. To be fair I had a guy pick my car up with a cargobob and put me on the CIA building. Hats off to him because if you are gonna troll someone at least add a bit of humour to it and I laughed along with him. People who run around killing (and spawning raping) other people just arent funny or clever. There are organised death matches for the purpose of killing others and considering most people deposit their winnings ASAP you aint gonna get a reward for it either

Parking a truck over a shop door (thus blocking someone in) = funny
Picking someones car up (with them inside) with a cargobob = funny
Towing someones car = funny
Someones escaping the police so you block the road = funny

Being a dick and killing players because they havent unlocked (or paid for) all the good gear youve unlocked (or paid for) = seriously unfunny and unoriginal

The stuff that I said was funny is a silly prank that might cause a slight annoyance to a player and perhaps the cost of fixing a car but spawn raping with a tank (when noone else has a tank) just ruins the game for everyone. Not only that but you get some sticky bombs on that tank and you get blacklisted for blowing up another players car

Ironically the blacklist servers are probably full of more decent players than the normal ones

 

[StriderShinryu]

What the OP describes certainly sounds to me like a broken system for lobbies/matchmaking. It doesn't excuse the people abusing it, but I'd put a lot of that in RockStar's lap. It also doesn't sound like there's actually any skill involved.

I'm generally okay with there being a diversity of skill in players, and I applaud games where the player with more knowledge and/or skill wins the vast majority of the time. That's just part of being a well constructed and designed competitive game. Contrary to what some people believe, playing for "fun" isn't just about slapping buttons and goofing off. Playing at a high level of skill and winning (and losing as well, if the match is hard fought or there was a lesson to be learned) is fun for some players, and it's just as "not fun" for a highly skilled player to be constantly beating a lower skilled player as it is for the player who's getting beaten. As said above, though, that doesn't sound like the case in the OPs described scenario.

 

[shootthebandit]

This is why I loathe MMO RPGs. All the "best" players have simply been playing for longer and got the most exp and money

I played GTA:O for a couple of days after release and it was a mixed bag. One server me and this american dude decided to band together and rob liqour stores and do a few missions. It was really good fun although it was spoiled when we joined a new server full of "microtransaction wankers" you know the guys who have a tank and a cargobob 1 day after release. To be fair I had a guy pick my car up with a cargobob and put me on the CIA building. Hats off to him because if you are gonna troll someone at least add a bit of humour to it and I laughed along with him. People who run around killing (and spawning raping) other people just arent funny or clever. There are organised death matches for the purpose of killing others and considering most people deposit their winnings ASAP you aint gonna get a reward for it either

Parking a truck over a shop door (thus blocking someone in) = funny
Picking someones car up (with them inside) with a cargobob = funny
Towing someones car = funny
Someones escaping the police so you block the road = funny

Being a dick and killing players because they havent unlocked (or paid for) all the good gear youve unlocked (or paid for) = seriously unfunny and unoriginal

The stuff that I said was funny is a silly prank that might cause a slight annoyance to a player and perhaps the cost of fixing a car but spawn raping with a tank (when noone else has a tank) just ruins the game for everyone. Not only that but you get some sticky bombs on that tank and you get blacklisted for blowing up another players car

Ironically the blacklist servers are probably full of more decent players than the normal ones

 

[Dragonbums]

Yeah see, this is why I can't stand n00b killing, and anything related to that. It happens all the time in those kinds of games, and I hate it. It's not fun for the person being killed. At all. It can actually be highly detrimental to the install base because that leaves you with more people bailing because they get frustrated. Only leaving you with a tiny few that actually stayed in the game.

Honestly, I blame Rockstar for this. They should of had a system in place where the only lobbies you can go in is those who are close or have the same level as you.

Pokemon does that to an extent in rated battles. The higher rated you are from winning, the more likely you are to be matched against high rated players equal to your skill set. That way those just figuring out a competitive strategy don't get utterly discouraged and destroyed by this one guy/gal who had a Smogon SWAT team compile and modify their team to take on anything.


Free battles in Pokemon though? heh. Good luck their kid. Then again, most highly competitive people like challenges so they still stick to rated battles.

 

[Someone Depressing]

In class-based online games, everyone can contribute in some way. If you're one of two medics, one LVL 50 and one LVL 20, you being the lower, you can still contribute, just not as effectively. I'm not sure how one would avoid a situation in a non-class based game, though.

Reminds me of a simliar situation in Wakfu. I was playing with a much lower level player, who I had given some armour and a shovel to hit things with, and another person, closer to my level. The two argued so much that they'd spent their entire turns typing. Well, that is, the higher leveled one. Neither me or the lower level cared in the slightest. Even when she started catching up, he could never shut up about how much of a "nub" she was or how "he picked a female for sympathy"... when I know her personally. It got so ridiculous, that he settled it with a PVP battle. He got his ass kicked because he wasn't using his class's special ability (each class has a gimmick, like special buffs, creature summons, ect) among other things, such as not moving, ect. He ragequit. And we just laughed and kept playing.

People like that crack me up so much.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

I fucking loathe progression systems in multiplayer games. It always, always leads to the kind of situations you are describing. It's why Gears of War 3 is pretty much the only multiplayer game I play anymore. Because everyone starts on a level playing field.

I just don't get it. What fuckhead thought it was a good idea to give the best weapons and skills to the players who invest the most time into the game. All that does is give the most skilled players the best equipment and thus any newcomer is shit outta luck until they can get to the same level, but most just won't bother.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I'm gonna have to agree with the people who pointed the blame at Rockstar. What the OP is describing isn't bad /players/, it's a terribly designed /game/. This isn't a case of skill vs. skill, where the better player wins. That can be less than fun for the wrong kind of gamer, but at least it's fair. Instead what we've got is a case of account vs. account, where the account that has been used the longest has the advantage. These "high level" players would be getting their asses kicked by other high level players, if they had to start a new account for some reason. In a properly balanced game, that won't happen -- the best player wins, regardless of whether they're even playing on their own account or not.

Basically, don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[loc978]

This is something I never understood. If you feel that way, why do you waste your limited free time on that particular game? ...or pretty much any online game, for that matter? Obviously GTA:O is a system designed not to stop griefing... and there will always be griefers even in games that are designed to stop it.

As far as I'm concerned, you're just describing the problem with online gaming in general: the people who play online games these days.