Poll: Left 4 Dead 1: Vastly Superior to L4D2

Recommended Videos

Ryokai

New member
Apr 4, 2010
233
0
0
Don't get me wrong. I love me some L4D2. It's one of the my top played games. But in my opinion, Left 4 Dead 2 is simply a great game, instead of the amazing piece of art (Yes, Ebert, I said art) that Left 4 Dead was.

Why? Here are the reasons:

1. Atmosphere. This is the main reason. The first Left 4 Dead gave us 4 (and a half) amazing campaigns, in which the gritty feel of a Zombie film was everywhere. Dark corridors, fighting through a hospital filled with the infected, sneaking through the woods, walking down abandoned poorly lit streets with only the infected around, fighting waves on a rooftop waiting for a helicopter to arrive... It goes on and on. In Left 4 Dead 2, however, it's daytime during many of the campaigns, and even when it's dark it just doesn't feel scary. The graphics are still on the same level, but everything, including the characters, is painted much brighter. It's like they thought, hmmmm, people loved the first one's dark horror feel. So let's take out the horror and just try to make it feel Southern, even though no one asked for it. Though the newest campaign, the Passing, did manage to recapture some of the gritty feel.

Also, it felt like L4D2 had very few "movie" moments. You know what I mean. Getting to the safe room, holding the door open for a friend with a horde on his heels, slamming the door shut just as he crosses the doorway in the face of the infected. Or when the helicopter finally arrived in No Mercy, and it's just you and one friend left, you limping along to reach it while he pulls ahead, horde closing in behind you, when suddenly you get pounced by a hunter. Your friend turns to you to save you, and you yell "Leave me! LEAVE ME!" over the mic, caught up in the moment as you try to make sure at least someone survives. (You can do these in Left 4 Dead 2, but for some reason it just doesn't come naturally.)

Also, Left 4 Dead 1's campaigns were unconnected (except for when they released crash course and connected the first two, a mistake in my opinion), something I loved. It was up to our imaginations to decide what happened to the survivors between the campaign. Maybe they were rescued but their military rescue camp was overrun. Maybe the military sent them out to find more survivors. Maybe the campaigns are just 4 potential situations that could face these 4 survivors, and each one let us try a potential one. In L4D2, however, nothing is left to our imagination. We know what happens between each campaign.

2. Characters. Another big reason.

Left 4 Dead's characters were fun, witty, and had layers and more than 1 dimension.

You had Francis, the tough, rough biker who hated everything, yet clearly had a sensitive spot deep down and cared about his teammates.

Bill, the grizzled war veteran forced out of war by the war ending and by age, suddenly forced back into an adrenalin pumping fight for survival against a horde of enemies unlike any he's ever faced. A bit cynical, but he could make some funny wisecracks, and I am sad that they killed him off in the Passing.

Zoey, the college student horror film lover, suddenly finding herself in one of her horror flicks, fighting for her life, yet managing to keep fighting. Never one to hide her feelings, she provided a lot of hilarious lines to the story and was my favorite character.

Louis, the timid IT worker trying to build up his courage to quit his job when suddenly its taken away, along with everything else. Now he's the groups optimist, trying to keep everyone's spirits up during times of danger

But in Left 4 Dead 2, we have:

The fat black guy. (No racism intended)

The uninteresting black chick. (Again, above)

The con artist/gambler who never actually mentioned anything about his gambling and cons.

And the Southern guy, who was actually slightly more developed than his friends. (Southern, ADHD, a fixation with his probably dead best friend Keith and the ways in which Keith managed to harm himself).

Basically, the characters can make the game, and Left 4 Dead 2's characters left something wanting.



3. The bugs. Left 4 Dead 2 had a lot of bugs. A lot of these were fixed, but a lot still exist. Zombies spawning right behind you, special infected managing to grab you from impossible distances, and game crashes, among others.


4. The new infected.
I was so excited about the new infected. The Chargers "Half tank" description got me pumped, the Jocky sounded neat, and the Spitter sounded like a great comeback for survivor molotovs. But the Charger ended up being a less mobile version of the hunter with more health, and while the spitter was a good addition, her model looks wierd and out of place, and her spit could have been designed to look a lot better.

And the Jockey. Don't get me started on the Jockey. I HATE that little bastard. I hate fightin against him, I hate playing as him, I hate everything about him.

5. The little touches.
Being able to see my feet in L4D1 gave a touch more immersion to the game, especially when you could actually see yourself limping when on low health. When your body ragdolled when you died, it gave the realistic feeling that you're just another body, now that you're dead, the rest just have to keep on.

I honestly hate the "archangel" pose the new characters give in L4d2, stuck in the same default position no matter what surface they're on, leading to some floating corpses sometimes. Yes, I know both of these issues have something to do with the defibrillator, but honestly, I rarely if ever use it, and generally having to use one means we screwed up an dare about to get destroyed.

Another thing is the loading screens. In Left 4 Dead 1, the loading screen is a poster of the movie the campaign is. In 2, the poster doesn't have the names on it, ruining the effect somewhat. Also, the poster appears to be pasted on a wall that seems to be in the campaign itself, giving a WTF feel to me. How is a poster of the situation on wall IN the actual setting?

Also, the witch cries were a bit more sobby in 2, and I really liked the chilling moans they had in 1.


I would be remiss if I didn't mention some things that Left 4 Dead 2 did better than 1.

First of all: The gore. Oh, how I love you. The ridiculous amount of ways you can mutilate a zombie. Slice em, explode em, behead them, partially behead them in different ways, cut them up in dozens of ways, entrails trailing as they ran sometimes. (I know I'm far too enthusiastic about the ways in which we could maim infected...)

The melee weapons were a nice touch, but aside from the chainsaw, they were all really the same thing. I wish they could vary more between the weapons (greater difference in range, speed, and other things.)

The bride Witch in the Passing at the altar. So chilling. Loved that part. And while I'm pissed they killed off Bill, and not one of the uninteresting new guys, at least they did it in a cool way, just showing his corpse, now move on, you guys have to survive and there's no time to mourn.


I tried really hard to like Left 4 Dead 2 as much, if not more than, 1, but I couldn't. I was disappointed a little. As my friend said, the game is half-baked. It needed more time to be worked on. 11 months after the first game was released is not a time to release a sequel. The graphics were on the same level, the gritty horror feel was diluted greatly, the characters sucked, the bugs were annoying, and the little touches were gone.

While Left 4 Dead 2 is a great game, it left a lot to be desired, and in the end disappointed me a little.

(Sorry if I got a bit carried away. Left 4 Dead was one of my favorite games, and I just wanted to get this off my chest.)
 

Catalyst6

Dapper Fellow
Apr 21, 2010
1,362
0
0
If they took the original L4D and threw in the additions like melee and such, I would be a happy gamer.

I think it's the atmosphere that I miss the most. L4D1 was so dark and sometimes genuinely frightening. Especially in No Mercy, Jesus fuck that hospital got creepy sometimes. Plus all the little easter eggs, like the possible Patient Zero in the bio-hazard room in Mercy... great.
Overall, the mechanics might not have been as good but the actual design was far better.

Killing all the zombies in brightly lit areas is not a zombie movie, it's just an FPS where the soldiers are replaced with zombies. Except for Hard Rain, but that's just a pain in the ass.

Oh and Valve... why Valve... Bill was my favorite character...
 

Ryokai

New member
Apr 4, 2010
233
0
0
Catalyst6 said:
If they took the original L4D and threw in the additions like melee and such, I would be a happy gamer.

I think it's the atmosphere that I miss the most. L4D1 was so dark and sometimes genuinely frightening. Especially in No Mercy, Jesus fuck that hospital got creepy sometimes. Plus all the little easter eggs, like the possible Patient Zero in the bio-hazard room in Mercy... great.
Overall, the mechanics might not have been as good but the actual design was far better.

Killing all the zombies in brightly lit areas is not a zombie movie, it's just an FPS where the soldiers are replaced with zombies. Except for Hard Rain, but that's just a pain in the ass.

Oh and Valve... why Valve... Bill was my favorite character...
Exactly. It just seems like L4D2 should have been an expansion. At most.
 

The Rockerfly

New member
Dec 31, 2008
4,649
0
0
I completely agree

This was very well written, had good structure and flowing sentences.

The atmosphere and the characters were the deal breaker for me and honestly the 1 year of development was felt with the poor characters and terrible atmosphere in the maps

Anyway I won't start ranting, good points, well done.
 
Jun 3, 2009
787
0
0
I see your points, but I am a sucker for melee and prettier graphics. On the other hand, I though the paths through the levels in the second game were a lot more intricate than the first and I enjoyed that.

Character wise, like Elis and Coach but the other two are lame. I don't like playing as the new infected, except for the spitter, but that's just because she's a little bit over powered in my opinion.

Congrats, your post is about to make me fire up L4D. :p
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
6,915
0
0
I can't understand all you people that say the atmosphere is worse.

Maybe I'm just the only one who pays attention, but many of the the things that created the atmosphere in Left 4 Dead are still in Left 4 Dead. Only it's just been improved. For example, the original game would play a faint song during times with little combat. This song could unnerve the player, making them feel nervous about their surroundings and what was going on that they didn't know about. Left 4 Dead 2 has the same exact thing, only it's been improved. Rather than use the same generic sounds for all the campaigns, the game instead had specialized songs that matched the theme of each campaign. A lot of work went into making each campaign feel unique, right down to subtle details such as this. It is, in my opinion, much better for creating atmosphere.

You haven't given a single valid reason as to why it lost it's atmosphere. You just said it's southern instead of horror now. Well I'd say it's both, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Fenreil

New member
Mar 14, 2010
517
0
0
It's hard, choosing between excellent environments and enhanced gameplay.

I'm with you in that I'm still in awe of how good Left 4 Dead's maps were. They were excellent, and make me want to play the game again over L4D2. But I want to play 2 for the melee weapons and improved systems.

They really need to merge the best of these two worlds somehow.
 

Kouen

Yea, Furry. Deal With It!
Mar 23, 2010
1,652
0
0
both have there ups and downs imo

L4D1 The Survivors and Maps
L4D2 Melee and More Special and Semi Special Infected (Like HazMat Zombies)
 

Ryokai

New member
Apr 4, 2010
233
0
0
Internet Kraken said:
You haven't given a single valid reason as to why it lost it's atmosphere. You just said it's southern instead of horror now. Well I'd say it's both, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I gave several: The daytime. The brightly painted models and scenery. Boring characters. Lack of movie moments. Boring locales (A sugar mill? Seriously?). Boring dialogue. Etc, etc

Moving on.

Another thing I forgot to mention is the promise Valve broke. They said there would be different pathways each time, the AI director switching environment segments to create a unique experience.

No. There aren't. Boarding up a door and making me walk five feet to an alley instead is not a "unique experience". Neither is unblocking the door and putting a fence in front of the alley.

Also, the AI director "changing weather to match the setting". Really? Randomly making it rain in specific chapters in two campaigns is matching the setting? Though to be honest, I love the storm function. Killing visibility and muffling voice chat? Awesome.
 

TsunamiWombat

New member
Sep 6, 2008
5,870
0
0
l4d2 has pretty awesome survivors, IMO, only the chick is uninteresting, and the gameplay is much improved.

And, no set pieces? What about sprinting acrossed a bridge being chased by the infected trying not to fall off or lag behind or stop? What about defending a stage while rock music and sparklers go off, and using fireworks to kill the undead? What about hauling ass through a hurricane that intermittently totally washes out the area so you can't see or hear with a gas tank on your back through a sugar factory infested with witches? What about escaping a burning hotel?

The original has more of a 'traditional' horror survival feel, L4D2 has more of a 'modern' horror feel, like Romero's Dawn of the Dead. Both are good, though they have different feels- l4d1 is almost a tactical shooter. L4D2 loses that tactical nature for crazy awesome set pieces and fun weapons.

Ultimatly, BOTH feel a bit 'unfinished', but 2 offers more then what it's predecessor did. I'm still a bit butthurt about the sequel thing myself, but it is what it is. As long as they don't crap out a 3.
 

Salakayin

New member
Apr 1, 2010
79
0
0
Atmosphere is for sure still in L4D2 just as much as it was in L4D. The difference is well...just that. They both have atmosphere, but from how I see it they convey slightly different atmospheres from each other. But I still find them *both* great, nevertheless. Because frankly, you'll encounter many different atmospheres and feels throughout the different parts of the States. It's a great versatility. I'm sure you'd have a way different atmosphere in the Pacific Northwest compared to the open plains of the Midwest.

Also, I think you simplify the L4D2 characters a bit too much. Sure, they're *basically* that but they aren't *only* that. I see much more in the L4D2 characters then you give them credit for. Nick may be a con-man and gambler , but you can also tell the conflict of a stout individualist being forced into having to help others. It's a different set of individuals then the first L4D, easily. But they're still quite deep, and it's unfair to try to set them up the same as the first group of Survivors.

I really would put both the L4D games on the same level as each other. Sure, we're all use to what is in the original L4D, but just because L4D2 changes the folks, setting, and strategies up doesn't mean we can't enjoy it for being different. I loved both games and both groups of Survivors. The second is just a different feel that we're use to from the first.

Y'all may think otherwise then myself, but I liked the change of feel. It gives the first L4D and L4D2 their differences without totally phasing out the other because they're so similar. Different atmosphere, different group of Survivors. Can alternate depending on one's mood!
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
6,915
0
0
Ryokai said:
Internet Kraken said:
You haven't given a single valid reason as to why it lost it's atmosphere. You just said it's southern instead of horror now. Well I'd say it's both, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I gave several: The daytime. The brightly painted models and scenery. Boring characters. Lack of movie moments. Boring locales (A sugar mill? Seriously?).

Moving on.
Missing the point. You didn't explain it. Anyone can make a claim, but you have to actually back it up with something substantial. No matter how many times you say that the atmosphere is worse, it won't change the fact that you haven't really explained why this is true. Saying "it's in the daytime" is not a good explanation.

I wouldn't berate you if you actually had a reason, but you don't appear to.
 

Ryokai

New member
Apr 4, 2010
233
0
0
Internet Kraken said:
Ryokai said:
Internet Kraken said:
You haven't given a single valid reason as to why it lost it's atmosphere. You just said it's southern instead of horror now. Well I'd say it's both, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I gave several: The daytime. The brightly painted models and scenery. Boring characters. Lack of movie moments. Boring locales (A sugar mill? Seriously?).

Moving on.
Missing the point. You didn't explain it. Anyone can make a claim, but you have to actually back it up with something substantial. No matter how many times you say that the atmosphere is worse, it won't change the fact that you haven't really explained why this is true. Saying "it's in the daytime" is not a good explanation.

I wouldn't berate you if you actually had a reason, but you don't appear to.
I'll explain it slowly then. Daytime ruins the feel because it kills the no visibility that adds so much to the scary factor. It also makes it feel like I'm on a picnic, only with zombies. The bad dialogue makes the atmosphere forced. The boring locales take away interest in what's around me. The bright colors again take away from horror and make it feel more friendly--which is why kindergartens and nursery schools are painted brightly.

The boring characters take away immersion, as do the little touches.

I believe I've now explained it enough for you.
 

Explosm

New member
Oct 4, 2009
334
0
0
L4D2. Is better then the original. You just dont think so becasue you became accustom to L4D1 and you think L4D2 is the same. Which it is


Campaigns suck on #2 though.
 

Daedalus1942

New member
Jun 26, 2009
4,169
0
0
Ryokai said:
Catalyst6 said:
If they took the original L4D and threw in the additions like melee and such, I would be a happy gamer.

I think it's the atmosphere that I miss the most. L4D1 was so dark and sometimes genuinely frightening. Especially in No Mercy, Jesus fuck that hospital got creepy sometimes. Plus all the little easter eggs, like the possible Patient Zero in the bio-hazard room in Mercy... great.
Overall, the mechanics might not have been as good but the actual design was far better.

Killing all the zombies in brightly lit areas is not a zombie movie, it's just an FPS where the soldiers are replaced with zombies. Except for Hard Rain, but that's just a pain in the ass.

Oh and Valve... why Valve... Bill was my favorite character...
Exactly. It just seems like L4D2 should have been an expansion. At most.
I feel they're both fine in their own right. I myself prefer the sequel due to the addition of melee weapons and new infected. Also, I prefer the atmosphere of the daytime levels for some reason. I like not having to always have my flashlight on.
I still enjoy the first game too, and play both, but I wasn't a fan of the whole every level being at night time idea.
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
6,915
0
0
Ryokai said:
I'll explain it slowly then. Daytime ruins the feel because it kills the no visibility that adds so much to the scary factor.
Yeah, except that the darkness didn't really hamper visibility in Leaft 4 Dead 1. You could still see in most areas without needing your flashlight. It would be annoying and confusing if you always had to use the flashlight to see. You only needed it in certain areas, just like in Leaft 4 Dead 2. So claiming the atmosphere has been ruined because of this makes no sense.

It also makes it feel like I'm on a picnic, only with zombies. The bad dialogue makes the atmosphere forced.
The character dialogue has little to do with the atmosphere, so this point is moot anyways. Far more important things go into creating the games horror atmosphere, all of which are stll present in Left 4 Dead 2. Also, maybe you should explain why it feels like a "picnic" instead of just saying that it does.

The boring locales take away interest in what's around me. The bright colors again take away from horror and make it feel more friendly--which is why kindergartens and nursery schools are painted brightly.
So you're saying something is only scary if it's grim and gritty? That's pretty narrow minded. Valve didn't intentionally make areas of the game brighter. They made them have realistic lighting. If this somehow ruins the atmosphere for you, that's a personal problem.

The boring characters take away immersion, as do the little touches.
The characters are highly subjective so I don't see their as a valid point either.

I believe I've now explained it enough for you.
Not really. Your argument still has nothing to substantial to back it up. When I consider that many of the things from Left 4 Dead 1 that created atmosphere; such as the music and set pieces, are still in Left 4 Dead 2, I just don't see where you are coming from. Your entire argument seems to be based around some of the maps having daylight.
 

ratix2

New member
Feb 6, 2008
453
0
0
its kinda a two way street in my opinion. on one hand left 4 dead was pitch perfect in every way, from level design, enemies, special infected, EVERYTHING was absolutely perfect. with left 4 dead 2, despite the definite improvements in many areas i dont think it lived up to its predecessor in many ways (the hopeless atmosphere of the first game is evident in only a few areas in my opinion, as one example).

on the other hand there were so many things in l4d2 that make the first look like doom compared to half-life 2, and most the new additions are fantastic (rochelle is the biggest exception).

overall their both great games, and which i play depends on what kind of mood im in.
 

Chamale

New member
Sep 9, 2009
1,345
0
0
Witches are complete pussies in Left 4 Dead 2. I agree on that point.

Otherwise, though, I disagree with your points. I think that the dialogue in Left 4 Dead 2 was pretty well done, and I think that it captured the mood of its settings very well. While some campaigns are in daylight, keep in mind that both Left 4 Dead games are set in early winter. The Deep South has more daylight in winter than the Northeast.

The Passing added the Bride Witch, which is one of the most interesting video game characters ever.

Left 4 Dead 1 had Bill, PILLS HERE Louis, Francis, Zoey, and Chicago Ted.

Left 4 Dead 2 had Nick, Coach, Ellis, Keith, and the Midnight Riders.

The Passing made Rochelle more likeable, but Left 4 Dead 1's DLC gave more excellent lines to 3 of the characters. Making Rochelle a decent character was definitely an uphill battle, and the other 3 characters from Left 4 Dead 2 more depth couldn't be achieved in The Passing.

I'd say the games are roughly even on characters.

Regarding gameplay, the two are also about even. Left 4 Dead 1 maps work well with Left 4 Dead 1 weapons and infected, and the same goes for Left 4 Dead 2. On 360, though, the new Mutation game mode has given Left 4 Dead 2 the replayability that Left 4 Dead 1 lacked. On PC, of course, the modding community has given both games amazing replayability.