Poll: Live sex for Education

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mumakil

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Apr 15, 2009
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http://www.suntimes.com/4099633-417/northwestern-university-defends-after-class-live-sex-demonstration.html

More than 100 Northwestern University students watched as a naked 25-year-old woman was penetrated by a sex toy wielded by her fiancee during an after-class session of the school?s popular ?Human Sexuality? class.

The woman said she showed up at the Feb. 21 lecture in the Ryan Family Auditorium in Evanston expecting just to answer questions, but was game to demonstrate. The course?s professor on Wednesday acknowledged some initial hesitation, but said student feedback was ?uniformly positive.?

And Northwestern defended the class and its professor.

?Northwestern University faculty members engage in teaching and research on a wide variety of topics, some of them controversial and at the leading edge of their respective disciplines,? said Alan K. Cubbage, vice president for University Relations. ?The University supports the efforts of its faculty to further the advancement of knowledge.?

The optional, non-credit demo followed psychology Prof. John Michael Bailey?s sexuality class. Nearly 600 students are in Bailey?s class this quarter, and most didn?t stick around for the after-class show, which featured four members of Chicago?s fetish community describing ?BDSM,? or bondage, discipline, sadism and masochism.

?I didn?t expect to see a live sex show,? said Justin Smith, 21, a senior economics and political science major who was in the after-class session. ?We were told we were going to have some people talk to us about the fetish world and kink.?

Smith said it took him awhile to process what happened, but he doesn?t object to the way the material was presented.

?It was for me academic like everything else,? he said.

He told his grandparents about the class.

?My grandma was like, wow, Northwestern is a little bit different then when I went there,? he said.

In a statement, Bailey said he hesitated briefly before allowing the public sex act.

?My hesitation concerned the likelihood that many people would find this inappropriate,? he wrote. ?My decision to say ?yes? reflected my inability to come up with a legitimate reason why students should not be able to watch such a demonstration.?

After the demonstration, several students tried a different sex toy that gave a ?titillating? but not painful shock, testing it out on their arms, said Ken Melvoin-Berg, who narrated the after-class lecture. Melvoin-Berg said the school paid him between $300 to $500 for his appearance.

Faith Kroll, the woman who stripped, was laying down on a towel when she was penetrated. When she arrived, she thought she just would be answering students? questions and showing off sex toys they brought, including whips, paddles and a clown wig.

An ?absurd, clinical? video and subsequent discussion about various aspects of female orgasm led Faith and her partner Jim Marcus, 45, to prove to the class that female orgasm is real.

Faith said she was not coerced in any way and students were repeatedly warned it was going to get graphic.

?One of the students asked what my specific fetish was and mine is being in front of people, having the attention and being used,? she said. ?The students seemed really intrigued.?

In his statement, Bailey said student feedback was ?uniformly positive.?

Marcus, a musician who said he has worked as a sex educator, said he thinks it is ?smart and important? for students to be learn about sexuality.

?It?s really scary for young people who want to get involved in the BDSM community who don?t understand issues regarding consent and safety,? he said.

Melvoin-Berg said he met Prof. Bailey through a swinging couple who previously spoke to the class. Melvoin-Berg runs the ?Weird Chicago Red Light District Sex Tour,? which has participants playing games like ?spot the ho? as they travel the city looking for prostitutes. He also teaches ?Networking for Kinky People,? a 3-hour version of the one hour lecture he gave at Northwestern.

Melvoin-Berg said the sex toy used was BDSM, but was ?not like a pain thing...we wanted to make it poignant.?

?I did mention this was going to be the best money their parents had spent on their education,? he said.

Bill Yarber, a researcher at Indiana University?s Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction and author of the textbook Human Sexuality: Diversity in Contemporary America, said he?s never heard of a naked woman being brought to orgasm in front of a class of students.

?The way you present it there is very unconventional,? he said. ?There?s certain boundaries of things, I think, that are acceptable and that would certainly be pushing that.?

This isn?t Bailey?s first brush with controversy. His 2003 book, ?The Man Who Would Be Queen,? sparked hostile debate in the transgender community by claiming that there were more reasons for men to become women then simply that biology trapped them in the wrong body. Several transgender women who spoke with Bailey claimed they did not consent to being used for research and accused him of practicing psychology without a license.

Bailey said in his statement Wednesday that during the Feb. 21 after-class lecture, ?I was not in a mood to surrender to sex negativity and fear.?

?Do I have any regrets?? he wrote on Wednesday. ?It is mostly too early to say. I certainly have no regrets concerning Northwestern students, who have demonstrated that they are open-minded grown ups rather than fragile children.?


In short all that happened here was a professor let 2 professionals(?) show his class a woman getting a orgasm. The thing had not been planned and before it was done everyone was informed it might get really graphic(and this was a after class bonus thing) so everyone who wanted to leave could. Also everyone around was over 18.

So what do u guys think about this? Do you think this has any educational content or is it just smut. Express your opinions :D. In my opinion this is ok if everyone was fine with it who cares. And if they learned something all the better.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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They were all 18 as mentioned and could leave whenever they wanted. I also imagine they had enough time to once they suggested what they were doing.

I don't see anything wrong with them doing what they did really.

If it had been shown to be people under the age of consent and whatnot then it'd be another matter entirely.
 

standokan

New member
May 28, 2009
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That's brilliant, and I'm against it, I'm mean like you can take things too far, plus, it's not like if, at that age, they haven't watched any pr0n or something. I don't think that it should be illegal or something, they're 18 and such, but still.
 

Doffa

New member
Feb 20, 2011
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Wow, that is actually really interesting. Everyone involved had chosen to be there, even though it wasn't planned the students were warned it would get 'graphic' and most importantly the woman consented and everyone involved was over 18. I agree with the professor on the "inability to come up with a legitimate reason why students should not be able to watch such a demonstration."
 

Soviet Steve

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May 23, 2009
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So long as it is clearly advertised what is going to happen then I don't see what is wrong with it. How the body responds to sexual stimuli isn't knowledge that harms people, although I would prefer to see things standardized to avoid misinformation.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
19,538
4,128
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If you are teachings adults about sex, showing them what it's like seem reasonable.

The only issue you might have is about what types of sex you show...sexuality is a wide-ranging field, and you should avoid sticking to the "normal" ideas about it if you are to truly to explain it.
 

castlewise

Lord Fancypants
Jul 18, 2010
620
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Been done :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLiOfGvArAY

That doesn't have the full scene, but since the full scene has nudity it probably won't be on youtube. Just watch Monty Python and the Meaning of Life.
 

DefunctTheory

Not So Defunct Now
Mar 30, 2010
6,438
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mumakil said:
...prove to the class that female orgasm is real.
Oh, boy...

I'm honestly surprised the University is publicly defending this, as the Dean is probably kicking the shit out of this Professor in private.

From my experience, educators look poorly upon UNSCHEDULED sexual conduct on campus.
 

tzimize

New member
Mar 1, 2010
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Legion said:
They were all 18 as mentioned and could leave whenever they wanted. I also imagine they had enough time to once they suggested what they were doing.

I don't see anything wrong with them doing what they did really.

If it had been shown to be people under the age of consent and whatnot then it'd be another matter entirely.
Sums up my opinion nicely.

While my initial reaction was shock, the information about the happening made me think: "why not?".
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
20,519
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I dont really see the point to it unless you happen to attend a seminar called "How to feel extremely akward 101". There's no more added value seeing it live as opposed to watching a video.
 

Lucifron

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Dec 21, 2009
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Generic Gamer said:
Still, this is basically the very definition of gratuitous sex.
For educational or artsy purposes, even though the thought of university students in need having the existence of the female orgasm proved to them is completely alien to me, the real thing is obviously better than a movie. This wouldn't make it at all gratuitous, in fact, I cannot see how consensual sex can be gratuitous at all.
 

Flatfrog

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Dec 29, 2010
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A medical student could learn about anatomy entirely from watching videos, but there is a value to actual dissection of cadavers. Similarly, if you're studying sexuality it's more valuable to observe actual behaviour than watching a video - and certainly porn is useless as an observation because it's a performance for the camera.

Having said that, there are better ways that this could have been carried out - experiments on human sexuality have been conducted for centuries and we have plenty of good mechanisms to make it less exploitative than essentially watching a live sex show. I think in this case the professor was just getting off on it, to be honest. So in principle - nothing wrong with it, but in this case it does sound a bit dodgy.
 

Flatfrog

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Dec 29, 2010
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Generic Gamer said:
Frankly both are useless, if you want to learn about sex there's exactly one way to do it.
Completely disagree. If you are *studying* sex than being a participant is the worst possible way to do it. This wasn't a 'how to be a good lover' course, it was a course on human sexuality. When experimenters practice on themselves, it's generally frowned on.
 

Lucifron

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Dec 21, 2009
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Generic Gamer said:
Basically it was unnecessary. The only reason the demonstration took place is that a member of the lecturing team decided that the video wasn't sufficient, but that the same thing viewed in 3D was suddenly better.

Frankly both are useless, if you want to learn about sex there's exactly one way to do it.
In order to gain more knowledge of human sexuality, which I presume is the goal of the course, being an objective spectator to a live act of it is probably anything but useless.
 

TriGGeR_HaPPy

Another Regular. ^_^
May 22, 2008
1,040
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Ok, it's late, and I'm sleeping soon. But I literally (in the literal meaning of the word "literally") didn't stop laughing from The course's professor on Wednesday acknowledged some initial hesitation, but said student feedback was "uniformly positive." until "The way you present it there is very unconventional," he said. "There's certain boundaries of things, I think, that are acceptable and that would certainly be pushing that." Seriously. :p

I voted "Dont care", because... I don't. Like others (and the article) have said, everyone who attended was over 18, and were warned several times beforehand. If that's how they want to teach the class to legal adults, so be it.
If there was no "Dont care" option, I'd say yes, it's entirely ok.
 

ramboondiea

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Oct 11, 2010
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not really a problem here, probly should have told them what was going to be involved not just a vague warning,

i like the idea someone makes a timetable mistake and walks in during half-way really baffled haha