Poll: Male reproductive rights

[BlackNoel]

Contrary to what Christians would have you believe, people have sex for pleasure, and only rarely set out with the intention of creating a child.

I just want to point out that real Christians have never said anything to the contrary.
On topic, however, as great as this sounds in theory I'm not sure there'd be any practical way of ensuring universal acceptance of birth contracts.

 

[Littlee300]

I read the first two sentences...

A man makes that choice when he has unprotected sex.

Don't want a kid? Keep it in your pants.

EDIT: Okay, I read the rest... you can't be serious here.

You Say: Marriage contracts have become legally meaningless as there are no longer any courts which uphold them.

I say: There are specific courts that only deal with Marriage contracts. You think marriage contracts are legally meaningless? You are mistaken.

You Say: Whenever there's a single mother, they have always blamed the father, while assigning no blame whatsoever to the mother, whom refuses to get an abortion even when it's legal and free to do so.

I say: Whoever is telling you these things is wrong. It takes two to tango (unless we are talking about rape) and since when (and where) is abortion free?

EDIT: It's sad that so far over 85 people think this is a good idea. Just don't have sex in a way that can lead to pregnancy if you don't want to deal with the chance of having to be a responsible adult.Think about it. Be creative. The internet is full of ideas in this regard.

Think about it this way. Do you really want someone stupid enough to knock up a girl and realize he doesn't want to a kid to spread his genes?

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

Fathers have to endure 18 years of wage slavery.

If women who don't want to be a mother can abort, then men who don't want to be a father should be able to legally opt out (a paperwork abortion). If the woman decides to have the baby, she does so knowing that she will do it alone. That is the only fair way.

You cannot force or deny an abortion based on the wishes of the father.

that's because 1)If the father didn't want a child, he shouldn't have had sex in the first place. He bore the risk when he got his dick out.
2)While yes, it's a financial drain on him, it's far worse for the mother, who has to look after the child as well as buy food and other such stuff for it
3)The father doesn't go through the biological and mental changes the woman does, and that is the important point men arguing what you are miss. To force a woman into an abortion has destroyed women mentally, and even those who agree to them can be scarred for life, because her body and mind have changed due to the hormones

 

[trooper6]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

Fathers have to endure 18 years of wage slavery.

If women who don't want to be a mother can abort, then men who don't want to be a father should be able to legally opt out (a paperwork abortion). If the woman decides to have the baby, she does so knowing that she will do it alone. That is the only fair way.

You cannot force or deny an abortion based on the wishes of the father.

1) Abortion is not legal in all places.
2) Father are not enduring 18 years of wage slavery, they are taking care of their children--a human being that needs food and shelter and attention and care. What is wrong with you?
3) Writing out a check every month is getting off way easier than actually having to rear that child.

You know, back in the 19th Century and earlier, children were considered property of the father. So unwanted children lived in the father's home not the mothers. Let's see how all these dudes here would deal with that.

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

I agree to some of your opinions, men should have at least SOME rights when it comes to their hypothetical children. We know enough about male and female sexuality now-a-days, so we know women are just as interrested in sex as men, not just lust-less creatures who trade it for other goods (if you see at some of the laws, it seems like we still think like that), and the sole blame for a child isn't at the male side (we do give out birth control pills in free clinics now).
but these parts I have some objections to:

It should be illegal for a woman to give birth to a child without a signed consent form from the biological father.
If a woman wants to give birth, she'd better have a consent form from the father, as well as a signed contract specifying the terms of the relationship with the father, preferably with indication the pair will remain a couple indefinitely so that the child may have both a mother and a father, provided that both parties agree to those terms

the idea of a cntract isn't a inheritly bad idea, but it shouldn't be like this, not at all.
first of all, to refuse a woman to give birth, or force her to get a abortion is a human rights violation.
no-one can rule over your own body but you!

and the way a contract like this should be used, is if one of the parties in a long term relationship don't want a child (it goes without saying that this contract should be made BEFORE the female party get pregnant), they draw up a contract where the other party isn't finacially or leagaly obligated to help with the child.

And for the record, forcing two people who don't want to be together to stay with each other is going to be alot more harmful to the child then if it's raised by a single parent (or one parent and his/her new significant other).

 

[Prince Regent]

Massive blackmail potential here. Among tons of already mentioned reasons why this is a bad idea. (AKA forcing an abortion.)

 

[NickCaligo42]

It should be illegal for a woman to give birth to a child without a signed consent form from the biological father.

While I agree with a lot of the points you make, what's the punishment for breaking this proposed law? We fine the woman who's got to raise her child alone? Throw her in jail and leave the kid parentless? Force them into adoption? I don't think there's a reasonable, humane way of enforcing this.

 

[silversnake4133]

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text. :/

Actually dude, sex is already and act that both parties have to agree on before they begin unless one or both members of the union are mentally inebriated or disturbed in some way. Unless the two people are complete idiots with little to no education or concern for the future consequences.

Also, I doubt a contract is really going to mean anything when it comes to validating whether or not both members of the couple in question want to have sex or not. Also, sex just doesn't randomly happen, and someone always has to initiate the act, and if the other seriously doesn't want it, he or she would try to get out of it. And if the other continues, it's considered rape and the offender can be sent to jail or heavily fined depending on the offense.

Your idea of including a contract would just make unnecessary paperwork for people and probably put them off to the idea or they would totally ignore it altogether. You can't make people sign a contract just because you think it would benefit a few people who are having problems with girls or vice versa. There are already laws set up to protect people from unwanted sex and the consequences that would follow. In terms of having a kid, it's kind of the same thing as sex, both people have to agree to it and it has to be planned out. A baby just can't magically appear one day unless the mother had unprotected sex with another man and didn't tell her current partner. Also, there is such thing as Child Support. It doesn't matter if you wanted that baby or not, as long as that child is alive it is technically the parents' responsibility to make sure that child is provided the basic of needs for it to survive. Unless of course it is aborted or put up for adoption. Oh, and abortion was not, is not, and never will be free. Those surgeons have to get paid somehow, and it isn't on federal funding.

You seem to be really one-sided in this matter because the woman can be as equally to blame for having a child as the guy is. The guy is usually blamed more often though because of stereotyping, and if it really came down to it, the person that presents a better defense of the problem will usually win, stereotype or not. And women often are not seen in a positive light when they get an abortion. Especially not from their families. I know I don't view them in a good light because in my opinion, abortion is just an excuse to cover up a mistake and continue to sleep around without the threat of having to raise a child.

Besides, most of the people this would apply to are either still in school or drop-outs. If you have a good sense of when you want to start a family and your partner is okay with it, you shouldn't have to be required to sign a contract every time you want to have sex or have a baby. It's pointless, stupid, and only causes more of a hassle than preventing it. If you feel that by law women should not be allowed to have babies unless the MAN okays it, then you should just go the full yard and make unauthorized sex illegal too.

The only other option I see here would be to educate the youth. It's not 100% accurate, but it's way better than doing nothing only to be upset and whine about how it wasn't prevented.

 

[Codot Hawke]

Abstinence is the best form of birth control (unless you're the Virgin Mary).

You don't want a kid, or even the slightest possible chance of some form of offspring? Don't whip it out. Don't even put it in and then whip it out, thinking you just tricked Mother Nature, because you didn't.

Get a magazine, a sock and some lube or whatever the hell you use and rub one out.

These things should be discussed BEFORE having sex -- If you know she has strong convictions against abortion, don't even risk it!

Now, I'm not a prattler for marriage before sex, because I'd be a serious hypocrite, but you should at least KNOW the person well enough to know what would happen if there was conception. If you get knocked up, and he's a major asshole, congrats, you just set yourself up for serious headaches in the future.

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

2) Father are not enduring 18 years of wage slavery, they are taking care of their children--a human being that needs food and shelter and attention and care. What is wrong with you?

Mine did. He also did a great job of raising me, in spite of (not because of) my mother. My mom is living the great life now with another husband and three more kids that most of my dad's child support went to help raise. She has plenty of money, my dad is struggling to get by on a daily basis. Most fathers who pay child support are also an important person in their kids' lives - they don't just walk off scott-free. People need to remember that males get screwed over in this system a lot, and women can be petty and selfish too.

 

[trooper6]

and the way a contract like this should be used, is if one of the parties in a long term relationship don't want a child (it goes without saying that this contract should be made BEFORE the female party get pregnant), they draw up a contract where the other party isn't finacially or leagaly obligated to help with the child.

All this is crazy. If you don't want to have a child, don't engage in acts that could result in one. Or get a vasectomy.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

The only time I'd see a contract being necessary is when the woman goes to crazy extremes to be knocked up, then harasses the man for child support. I kid you knot, a guy I knew put tobasco sauce in used condoms, then had to drive his girlfriend to the hospital because she thought "I'll use this and get me a baby". Some women get the baby fever and WILL do gross stuff like that, without the man knowing or consenting, and THAT is when a contract would be needed so the man isn't stuck with bills he may not be able to afford despite being careful on his own end of things.

 

[Estarc]

On abortion: While having the option for abortion is definitely a good thing, as sometimes having a child just isn't feasible (too young, rape victim ect...) I think that talking about it casually, just getting rid of a few cells because of the inconvenience it might cause you, is so, so wrong. When you have an abortion, you are preventing someone from living. You are ending a life before it begins. You are killing your own child. I think it is essential that, when considering abortion, this is kept in mind. It should not be a decision made casually.

On conception contracts: I think the general idea is impractical, and ultimately motivated by a desire to relieve men of responsibility for their actions. The way you presented it was like all women are evil bitches who try to trap men into marriage or squeeze child support out of them. Plus, it was implied the onus is on women to get the contract signed, and if they don't do that they should be forced to get an abortion. Why not have a contract where men agree to man up and support their child because they were to fucking lazy to use a condom, or it broke, or whatever?

On marriage: I... what? You want to force people to stay in loveless marriages? Abusive marriages? To stay with their cheating partners or whatever? Why? I wish people took marriage more seriously and didn't just rush into it, but the solution is not to make divorces illegal or whatever you have in mind.

tl;dr: Dude, you have issues.

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

Abstinence is the best form of birth control (unless you're the Virgin Mary).

You don't want a kid, or even the slightest possible chance of some form of offspring? Don't whip it out. Don't even put it in and then whip it out, thinking you just tricked Mother Nature, because you didn't.

Get a magazine, a sock and some lube or whatever the hell you use and rub one out.

These things should be discussed BEFORE having sex -- If you know she has strong convictions against abortion, don't even risk it!

Now, I'm not a prattler for marriage before sex, because I'd be a serious hypocrite, but you should at least KNOW the person well enough to know what would happen if there was conception. If you get knocked up, and he's a major asshole, congrats, you just set yourself up for serious headaches in the future.

It's been pretty much proven at this point that abstinence does not work, because people aren't going to follow it. It's a biological function of human beings to want to have sex, and you can't condone people who do. Protection is the best policy here. Unfortunately it doesn't always work, and intelligent people should take that into account.

 

[Epona]

Women are allowed to get abortions, even if the father wants to have the child. Another double-standard.

What the fuck? How is that a double standard? Fathers don't have to endure 9 months of pregnancy plus childbirth.

Fathers have to endure 18 years of wage slavery.

If women who don't want to be a mother can abort, then men who don't want to be a father should be able to legally opt out (a paperwork abortion). If the woman decides to have the baby, she does so knowing that she will do it alone. That is the only fair way.

You cannot force or deny an abortion based on the wishes of the father.

that's because 1)If the father didn't want a child, he shouldn't have had sex in the first place. He bore the risk when he got his dick out.
2)While yes, it's a financial drain on him, it's far worse for the mother, who has to look after the child as well as buy food and other such stuff for it
3)The father doesn't go through the biological and mental changes the woman does, and that is the important point men arguing what you are miss. To force a woman into an abortion has destroyed women mentally, and even those who agree to them can be scarred for life, because her body and mind have changed due to the hormones

1) This is true of women too, men aren't the only ones who CHOOSE to have sex. If women get post conception options, so should men. Equality right?

2) The mother only has to look after the child if she chose to have the baby, an option that only she has. In addition she can put the baby up for adoption or give the baby to the father, the father doesn't get to make these decisions.

3) Maybe you should re-read my post.

 

[Godhead]

What is this I don't even...

OT: This thread makes no sense at all, I think everything that needs to be said has been.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

To be honest no one here has the right to comment unless they have been in this situation. Being 17 and having a major pregnancy scare where we sat down and talked this through very thoroughly i can say this has an appeal. She didnt like abortion. I realised i had basically ZERO say at all. Not really. No matter what i wanted i couldnt do anything about it, it was 100% her choice even though it 50% fucked me. I wasnt that happy. She was great though, an amazing girl im still with, scare over now, shes not. She was really nice about it, but it irked me that i had NO way of having an equal share.

 

[Codot Hawke]

Abstinence is the best form of birth control (unless you're the Virgin Mary).

You don't want a kid, or even the slightest possible chance of some form of offspring? Don't whip it out. Don't even put it in and then whip it out, thinking you just tricked Mother Nature, because you didn't.

Get a magazine, a sock and some lube or whatever the hell you use and rub one out.

These things should be discussed BEFORE having sex -- If you know she has strong convictions against abortion, don't even risk it!

Now, I'm not a prattler for marriage before sex, because I'd be a serious hypocrite, but you should at least KNOW the person well enough to know what would happen if there was conception. If you get knocked up, and he's a major asshole, congrats, you just set yourself up for serious headaches in the future.

It's been pretty much proven at this point that abstinence does not work, because people aren't going to follow it. It's a biological function of human beings to want to have sex, and you can't condone people who do. Protection is the best policy here. Unfortunately it doesn't always work, and intelligent people should take that into account.

But by that token, protection doesn't work either because people don't like using it. Men like sex without a condom, Women hate the pill because of the weight fluxing.

Human error applies to everything, so by that token, everything works and nothing works.

Abstinence works, Protection works, it's the people that don't.

 

[RachaelIsaacHill]

To be honest no one here has the right to comment unless they have been in this situation. Being 17 and having a major pregnancy scare where we sat down and talked this through very thoroughly i can say this has an appeal. She didnt like abortion. I realised i had basically ZERO say at all. Not really. No matter what i wanted i couldnt do anything about it, it was 100% her choice even though it 50% fucked me. I wasnt that happy. She was great though, an amazing girl im still with, scare over now, shes not. She was really nice about it, but it irked me that i had NO way of having an equal share.

I know a guy at my work who had the same thing happen, unfortunately she is pregnant. He's 20, she's 18 or so, and he is now stuck at the low-paying job he was at when she got pregnant, because he can't quit to look for a better one. He needs the money that desperately. His life is now over, and they are not mature or ready enough to be raising a child. They were just unfortunate kids who got screwed over, weren't even dating, and now their entire lives are ruined. He should not be forced to be raising a kid with this girl, when at any point she could have decided not to go through with it and walked away from the whole mess. It is infuriating that the woman in this regards holds so much sway over their male counterpart. However, finding a solution to this problem is nigh impossible.