I think both should use contraceptive. Can never be too careful. My parents learned that haha. I was merely saying that people should just learn to deal with it. It's better to be slightly inconvenienced then to ruin your whole life.TestECull said:
Poll: Male reproductive rights
- Thread starter wolas3214
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I love the answer that comes up every time this thread is done.
Woman doesn't want child: Use contraceptive, have abortion, give for adoption
Man doesn't want child: Don't have sex. Ever. In fact, just go cut your penis off.
Totally fair option. After we establish this maybe we cah start on reproductive genetic engineering so we can eliminate the male population and continue the species as a single-sexed entity.
Woman doesn't want child: Use contraceptive, have abortion, give for adoption
Man doesn't want child: Don't have sex. Ever. In fact, just go cut your penis off.
Totally fair option. After we establish this maybe we cah start on reproductive genetic engineering so we can eliminate the male population and continue the species as a single-sexed entity.
I agree with a lot of that, but the main issue in the US is the ridiculousness of the "Child Support" system. When a woman gets custody of the child (which is 90% of the time, unless the man can prove the woman is 100% incapable of being a parent the woman gets it every time, even then all she has to say is she found Jesus and changed her ways and she wins (My dad's lawyer explicitly told him that during his divorce case).wolas3214 said:
My cousin Mike only gets less than 1/3rd of his paycheck, the rest goes to his ex wife for child support. I understand the reason behind the system, but it is utterly broken in terms of the amount the woman gets. Many women get pregnant and leave the father just to get child support money.
MAN ARE ALL EVIL RAWR.ShadowKatt said:
The fact is that women do have far more choices when it comes to these things than men do. People see a case when a man might be able to just walk away from the child, and immediately start screaming things about abandonment and how unfair it is to leave the woman on her own. These people overlook the fact that the woman has that choice as well.
Sorry but running away from your responsibilities just because you don't feel you can spare some cash isn't the same thing as making the difficult choice to have an abortion.Raesvelg said:
Exactly what happened to my father. There's a predisposition in our culture to assume that women will always be better at raising kids than males. This is wrong, wrong, wrong, so wrong. This disparagement in the eyes of the court due to gender and child rearing needs to change. In fact, a lot of the issues we've been discussing here can probably be made a lot better by just changing our viewpoint of gender and child raising.demoman_chaos said:
I where giving an example of how to have a contract should be handled instead of @wolas3214's idea, i'm not saying its the best way to deal with it.trooper6 said:
But sex is an essential part of the human condition, we want/need it (to a certain degree) and it's one of the most cherished parts of life.
And as for getting a vasectomy, saying a man must take a vasectomy, but forcing a woman to take an abortion is wrong? thats crazy.
and vasectomies can be result in permanent sterility in men (even though you can reverse them in some cases) while its really rare for an abortion to have any damaging, psysical effects on a womans repoductive capability.
Yes, yes, how silly of us. We must be politically correct with out eugenics here. XDSober Thal said:
Marriage is a contract.
And breaking it often results in hefty penalties. Like half your stuff is gone.
And I would like to point out that males DO have authority over the creation of a child. Nothing stops a male from wearing a condom, encouraging the use of spermicidal lubricants, other forms of sexual contact (as vulgar as this sounds, you cant get pregnant from oral/anal sex), or getting a vasectomy.
Its all about responsibility. Yes, it does kind of suck that a woman has the majority of rights when it comes to child birthing. Then again, men dont have to let another human grow inside of them for 9 months, then push them out of a hole that is tipically smaller than a quarter. And if you want to have sex for fun, I dont blame you. But nothing says you have to be an idiot about having sex for fun - if you dont take any precautions, its all on you for messing up.
While I do agree it kind of sucks that a child is born without a loving family, adoption is always an option. I think thats a more fair tradeoff- letting a couple who might not be able to have kids have a child - then never allowing a child see the light of day because one of the parents wasn't into it.
A woman has to live with getting an abortion for the rest of her life. It is not an easy decision to make, and often sends them through emotional distress. The man, on the other hand, does not have to live with the guilt. He doesnt have to go into an abortion clinic, and endanger his body or mental wellbeing. Getting abortions is not healthy for the body, in the least bit.
What you offer as an alternative just shifts the burden from the man, who could have easily prevented this from happening in the first place, and puts it on the woman. While she could have just as easily prevented this, the act of childbirth takes more out of a woman than a man.
And breaking it often results in hefty penalties. Like half your stuff is gone.
And I would like to point out that males DO have authority over the creation of a child. Nothing stops a male from wearing a condom, encouraging the use of spermicidal lubricants, other forms of sexual contact (as vulgar as this sounds, you cant get pregnant from oral/anal sex), or getting a vasectomy.
Its all about responsibility. Yes, it does kind of suck that a woman has the majority of rights when it comes to child birthing. Then again, men dont have to let another human grow inside of them for 9 months, then push them out of a hole that is tipically smaller than a quarter. And if you want to have sex for fun, I dont blame you. But nothing says you have to be an idiot about having sex for fun - if you dont take any precautions, its all on you for messing up.
While I do agree it kind of sucks that a child is born without a loving family, adoption is always an option. I think thats a more fair tradeoff- letting a couple who might not be able to have kids have a child - then never allowing a child see the light of day because one of the parents wasn't into it.
A woman has to live with getting an abortion for the rest of her life. It is not an easy decision to make, and often sends them through emotional distress. The man, on the other hand, does not have to live with the guilt. He doesnt have to go into an abortion clinic, and endanger his body or mental wellbeing. Getting abortions is not healthy for the body, in the least bit.
What you offer as an alternative just shifts the burden from the man, who could have easily prevented this from happening in the first place, and puts it on the woman. While she could have just as easily prevented this, the act of childbirth takes more out of a woman than a man.
Meal tickets and adoption... I don't doubt cases like this exist but it seems your argument applies this to all cases. Also an unexpected pregnanct is not the same as an unwanted one. Even if the original plan was not to, dealing with what is, will be different with the hypothetical conversation.
But you bring up an interesting point.
The way I see it right this minute there are a number of situations.
Let's assume abortion is legal and moral for the society in question, also money is no object. Just for the sake of dealing with this point at hand.
1: both parents want the child. Fine have the child.
2: neither wants the child. Abort.
As things stand from what you say, the choice is the woman's.
Father yes/mother no: here it would seem the mother gets the choice by default and aborts.
mother yes/father no: the woman has the child.
If we are going to say that the choice has to be mutual then when there is a discrepancy, what would be the default.
We still have the clear cases of
1: both parents want the child. Fine have the child.
2: neither wants the child. Abort.
If either doesn't want the child we abort?
You have
one yes/one no: abortion. Seems harsh on the parent who would like to raise the child
OR
the default is birth. I guess there would have to be a release of responsibility. So the father might say No and could legally leave...
though I think child support is still a good idea. Or the mother could do the same. Again with child support seeming to me to be a good idea... unless the parent keeping the child is happy to go without? Complicated.
As a man having a child you want to keep aborted would be horrible. As a woman, I can only imagine, it can only be worse.
A woman bearing through a pregnancy she doesn't want. I doubt is a nice experience but I believe a better situation and yet perhaps the mother knows she could leave the baby once it was born and so that isn't an option for her.
I have no answer, OPer. They should put something based on this in Mass Effect 3
But you bring up an interesting point.
The way I see it right this minute there are a number of situations.
Let's assume abortion is legal and moral for the society in question, also money is no object. Just for the sake of dealing with this point at hand.
1: both parents want the child. Fine have the child.
2: neither wants the child. Abort.
As things stand from what you say, the choice is the woman's.
Father yes/mother no: here it would seem the mother gets the choice by default and aborts.
mother yes/father no: the woman has the child.
If we are going to say that the choice has to be mutual then when there is a discrepancy, what would be the default.
We still have the clear cases of
1: both parents want the child. Fine have the child.
2: neither wants the child. Abort.
If either doesn't want the child we abort?
You have
one yes/one no: abortion. Seems harsh on the parent who would like to raise the child
OR
the default is birth. I guess there would have to be a release of responsibility. So the father might say No and could legally leave...
though I think child support is still a good idea. Or the mother could do the same. Again with child support seeming to me to be a good idea... unless the parent keeping the child is happy to go without? Complicated.
As a man having a child you want to keep aborted would be horrible. As a woman, I can only imagine, it can only be worse.
A woman bearing through a pregnancy she doesn't want. I doubt is a nice experience but I believe a better situation and yet perhaps the mother knows she could leave the baby once it was born and so that isn't an option for her.
I have no answer, OPer. They should put something based on this in Mass Effect 3
Ok, let's look at it from the other point of view. The father wants the kid, the mother doesn't. Does the father therefore have to right to demand that the mother goes to term because the child is half his? This is basically what you are asking, that there should be equal weighting with regard to who has final say over whether the child is born or not.
News flash! A man doesn't have to give birth, a man doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregancy, a man can jump ship whenever he likes during those 9 months because he doesn't have a human being growing inside them!
To force another to go through either an abortion or a birth against their will is not right regardless of the rights of the father. If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregant he should take the nessasary steps to stop it happening as the woman would take steps to stop herself from getting pregant. If both parties take responsibility for this then if one is negligant (or goodness forbid deceptive and want a child to result without mutral concent) then they are still fine.
I am not particularly impressed by your assertion that single mothers are only in it for themselves and use their personal believes that abotion is murder as an excuse.
As I always say, sex IS meant for one thing and one thing only biologically, and that's making children. Sorry to break it to you, but this is the case. The fact that people do it for pleasure is not it's intended use.
News flash! A man doesn't have to give birth, a man doesn't have to go through 9 months of pregancy, a man can jump ship whenever he likes during those 9 months because he doesn't have a human being growing inside them!
To force another to go through either an abortion or a birth against their will is not right regardless of the rights of the father. If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregant he should take the nessasary steps to stop it happening as the woman would take steps to stop herself from getting pregant. If both parties take responsibility for this then if one is negligant (or goodness forbid deceptive and want a child to result without mutral concent) then they are still fine.
I am not particularly impressed by your assertion that single mothers are only in it for themselves and use their personal believes that abotion is murder as an excuse.
As I always say, sex IS meant for one thing and one thing only biologically, and that's making children. Sorry to break it to you, but this is the case. The fact that people do it for pleasure is not it's intended use.
Women file most divorces because they know that they will get the children, get money for the children, keep the car and the house (because the children need those things) while he loses everything and must move into a small rundown apartment that he can barely afford because he is still paying for HER HOUSE, HER CAR and yes HER KIDS.demoman_chaos said:
She ends ups better off because she gets to keep everything and gets a monthly payment but also gains the freedom to date anyone she wants. Also, she gets revenge via the hands of the state which is desirable to many women who want a divorce.
The system encourages divorce and broken families, it's broken.
you really don't see how uneven it is? if a woman doesn't want a child she can choose to abort or adopt, with or without her partners consent. if a man gets a woman pregnant and doesn't want it, he still needs to pay for it. how is it fair that the woman can give up responsibility for the child, but the man can't? they are both as responsible for the conceptionxXxJessicaxXx said:
yes, it is running away from your responsibilities. but if women are allowed to run away from their responsibilities, why can't men? it is hypocritical to say that women can give the responsibility to raise a child, but men cannot