Poll: Mass Effect 2: Fixing stuff by making it worse?

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XT inc

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Jul 29, 2009
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nicodeemus327 said:
XT inc said:
I don't believe in the dumbing down of games. Learn to play with the intricacies or buy a wii. When I play a RPG its my aim to tweak every little thing I can. All they needed to do was install a recycling system and rarity system like in the terrible game Too Human. Any item below a certain rank got auto converted into cash.
You do realize that's pretty much what the system was doing? You only had to care about things that were actually an upgrade.
That system at least felt like there was stuff that you chose to get rid of. I don't quite know how to explain it. Its more fun and nit picky to micromanage and filter all this content coming at you than have it not exist and just have cut and dry up grades. You see this new mod in all it's shiny new glory amongst a pile of junk and you use it. ME2 just kind of gives you an upgrade once in a while and then you have to do the boring mining game to actually use it.

I miss my mods that would crank my damage waaaay past what the gun could do and make it over heat in one shot, but just wreck what ever was on the recieving end.
 

Centurion85

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Mar 31, 2010
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Trotgar said:
I agree with the whole original post.

I think they should've made the aspects better rather than just removed them.

The inventory system would've needed only some improving, the planets' surfaces should've been flatter and the side quests needed variety.

And you can't have Wrex as a teammate in ME 2. That seriously sucks.
Yeah but Urdnot Grunt was a particularly badass replacement I think :D. Particularly with the uber shotgun you get later on.
 

NickCaligo42

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Hurr Durr Derp said:
Personally I couldn't stand Mass Effect 1 (to the point that I decided I'd rather read a Wikipedia synopsis than actually finish it) and found that I MUCH preferred Mass Effect 2 when I gave it a shot. The micromanagement honestly didn't faze me; I'm a long-time RPG gamer and tabletop RPG developer myself, that just kind of comes with the territory; but a lot of the typical Bioware RPG trappings just didn't feel like they suited the first game to me and a lot of the systems, particularly Biotics, just felt broken. That said, I figured I'd chip in my two cents. I agree on some points and disagree on others.

1 - The Guns
Yes, it's impossible to completely run out of ammo, but depending on your play style you can run out basically for the rest of any given encounter. Personally I played an infiltrator and leaned on my sniper rifle for most of the game, the other guns in my arsenal being relatively weak in comparison. I didn't feel stressed by the ammo limitations, necessarily, but every so often I would find myself with only three or four shots, six guys left to deal with, and more waves of enemies on their way. I need only leave my cover and go grab some clips to refill and go back to kicking ass, but that's the beauty of it: it DID get me leaving cover and taking risks to continue using my favorite weapon.

2 - Inventory System
I was skeptical at first, but the streamlining felt welcome to me; a lot more realistic that I didn't have to buy my own equipment. As the most respected, most badass marine in the galaxy with your own ship, your own crew of engineers, your own armory, and tremendous backing from a major organization, does it really make sense that they'd make you buy your own guns on some backwater shithole planet? That'd be like if I were playing Rainbow Six or SWAT 4 and had to buy my own weapons in back alleys between missions. Inventory micromanagement just shouldn't be the challenge here when the game is limited to the comparatively simple task of squad-based shooting.

3 - Skills
Let's put into perspective what skills they dropped: all the ones that gradually removed artificial aiming/accuracy restrictions, which was just dumb; one of those aspects of the first game that I felt made it both a bad RPG AND a bad shooter. Instead of putting the special abilities on their tracks, they separated them out--making it a lot more clear what the player was upgrading to begin with--and made the upgrades less frequent but more significant. In other words, they narrowed it down to just the ones that actually mattered. As far as weapon skills go, you either CAN use a particular weapon or CAN'T, and that's how it should be if they're going to have weapon proficiency differences between classes anyway. In a tabletop RPG where you can fudge this in a thousand different ways over the course of 20 levels this doesn't make sense, but this is a video game, and it keeps the tactical differences between characters very clear and explicit, which is vital for keeping things well-balanced. OTHER upgrades come in the form of Shepard's armor pieces and various research-based upgrades, so you still get a lot of those elements, just in a different form.

I got no rebuttal towards the dialogue upgrading, though--I'd have actually preferred to have more control over that like in the first game.

4 - Minigames
Given all the other streamlining that's gone on in this game, how would you propose the player acquire Omnigel? You got it in the first game through the micromanagement that no longer exists in the second game, which is a lot more mission-based and refills most of your resources between missions. At best you could have it work like Medi-Gel or heavy weapons' ammunition, which DOESN'T refill between missions and has to be found in containers and stuff, but that'd feel a bit TOO artificial to me, and it would remove the pressure from a lot of the more important bypasses and hack-jobs. As it is there isn't much given how piss-easy these minigames are, but that would take ALL the air out of 'em.

Frankly I'd have preferred something with a bit more depth to it, something that could've been modified to be more or less difficult in more interesting ways; as it is, the only variable is whether you have just four dots to match on the Bypass screen or five, and I'll give you that it does get monotonous and annoying after a while. At least they go by quickly.

One last thing: let's remember that they didn't just replace the PC version of Mass Effect 1's "frogger" minigame. The Xbox 360 version was just a quick-time event-style prompt. The hacking minigames aren't great, but it's still better than that.

5 - Loading Screens
My loading screens went by in a couple of seconds each, so this made no difference to me. Can't say anything here.

6 - Non-plot-related planets
I don't think anybody is going to disagree with you here.

7 - Exploration
The first game at least came up with some surprises, like the Thresher Maw popping up on the random planet here or there unexpectedly. When you realize it's a common setpiece and that this'll happen on several planets it loses all its punch, but it was there. Never had a problem running out of gas, always had plenty of cash for that, and frankly, the resource consumption put a good amount of interest in it for me, making it a more relevant part of the rest of the game... when I actually bothered to do it.

Yeah, neither of these games are all that good at incentivizing exploration. The best they're able to do is throw around a bunch of semi-story-related side-quests and just make it convenient to go off to the side and waste time with the damn mining mini-game. This is the key problem with all the streamlining they did; the game's a lot tighter, more focused, and better-balanced, but there's a lot fewer surprises and a lot fewer opportunities to create fun.
 

HellbirdIV

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I agree on a few points: Space suits for every party member would be great. I don't really mind Samara showing off cleavage in what is ostensibly the vacuum of space, but really, why is it so hard to let people wear bloody helmets? There are bullets, exploding barrels and biotic shit going everywhere, why is no-one bothered by the severe lack of head-protection (or any protection, if you use Jack or Thane)?

The lack of an inventory was both good and bad, because some more variety (The only weapons I ever changed around would be the Heavy Weapons, although I mostly just ended up using the Collector Beam anyway) would -really- have brightened the game.

Mining minigame became kinda tedious when you really needed that goddamn platinum for your sniper rifle upgrades, but I actually found it rewarding enough when you struck a huge-ass multi-thousand mineral vein and could skip two or three planet scans entirely.

New skill system was just better in my opinion, the fact that it was streamlined and simplified struck me as a blessing.

Of course I am also the only one in the history of ever to completley love the Mako.
 

Sephychu

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Dec 13, 2009
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I've got no problems with the loading times.
Go play Killzone 2, then tell me the Mass Effect 2 loading times are long.
(Hint: They aren't.
 

Valkyrie101

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FallenJellyDoughnut said:
I hate the Moral choice system, its bullshit! If I want to go all Dirty Harry on thier ass for the greater good, it shouldn't make me the bad guy! I want to be like Garrus, the renegade cop who removes scum from the earth because he knows that justice only comes one way: Through a bullet! Whereas I tried that and I turned into Ming the Merciless! Its poo I tells ya!
It doesn't make you the bad guy. Renegade doesn't mean evil, it means, well, renegade. Someone who doesn't play by the rules, and uses any means ncessary to win. Paragons are goody-goodies.

1- Personally, I preferred the ammo system. Amittedly it caused a slight continuity error in the canon, but that aside, I prefer reloading to having to wait for a gun to cool down.

2- I'd rather have no inventory than that bloated, broken piece of crap in ME1. What's the point in having 50 different assault rifles with marginal stat differences, when you could have 3 or 4 distinct, unique variants? At the end of the day, one weapon of nay given type was always superior to another in ME1, so it became a process of incrementally upgrading your weapon by switching it out for others, which was annoying.

3- I couldn't really care less about upgrading my skills. An RPG is a role-playing game. A game where you play a role. It's about character and story, choice and consequence, not number crunching. They could get rid of the skill system entirely and it wouldn't bother me. The only qualm I had with it was that Charm and Intimidate were tied to the morality meter, so a neutral RP playthrough was castrated in that regard towards the end.

4- Fair enough. The minigames were improved, but no longer optional, and a bit crap.

5- Alright, the loading screens were very slightly worse than the elevators, but not by much.

6- I agree that the mining minigame was shit, but the Mako planetary exploration wasn't a good idea, because it had absolutely no redeeming features. Awful Mako controls, bland planets with nothing worth finding, generally a waste of time. ME2 had side quests on certain planets, but they sensibly removed the pointless exploration of nothing and the Mako.

7- There isn't any exploring in ME2 as such. The exploration in ME1 was so bad it might as well not have existed. Therefore, I don't see much difference.
 

FallenJellyDoughnut

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tghm1801 said:
I liked everything in Mass Effect 2 except the loading screens.
I really feel the elevators were better because at least they gave you something to look at.
Epic bump, might want to check the date of last post next time.
 

TheSupremeForce

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Jul 19, 2009
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Why waste development time "improving things" that were largely unnecessary to the game in the first place? The difference between overheating and ammo is minimal. The inventory system in ME was clearly only there because "RPG's need inventory systems." They don't, as shown by ME2.

Streamlining the skills didn't bother me. Dropping the Mako was a non-issue, even though I really didn't dislike it in the original.

How the plots and characters compare is an issue open to discussion/debate. The gameplay itself was definitely improved.
 

MiracleOfSound

Fight like a Krogan
Jan 3, 2009
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Henrik Persson said:
1

6. Bioware are well aware that everyone hates the scanning minigame and have apologized for it. I think it's big of them and I forgive them. Let's just move on.

.
It is big of them and I'm glad they aknowledged it, but a little patch would be nice. Just something simple like increasing the amount of metal you find on each planet.
 

Xaositect

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Mar 6, 2008
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Yeah, pretty much agree with the whole "fixing stuff by making it worse".

Apart from the shooter combat. They improved that drastically.

Sadly they decided to base the entire fucking game around it, and created one of the most dumbed down games I have ever played. The plot was shit and the characters can all die, meaning their staying power is about effective as Shepards shields.

In short: Mass Effect 2 = Mass Appeal 2: A shooter fanbase grab story
 

EchetusXe

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Jun 19, 2008
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All the improvements genuinely made the game better. Mass Effect 1 gameplay sucks compared to Mass Effect 2.

What needs to go now is the planet scanner. So fucking boring. I got all OCD and tried to get every resource on every planet like I did on the first game, this made me dread getting new solar systems to explore. Until eventually I just thought 'fuck it' and stopped. It was so boring it actually overrode my OCD compulsion. Unbelievable.

Another major damn fault is the text in the codex and such. I'm sorry, back story? Heck I said I was OCD but even I gave up pretty quickly squinting at the screen trying to read about Asari immigration policy and so forth. I would have read it all if it was actually possible.

Other than that I would say that the story of:
1. Meet enemy.
2. Recruit ten billion people.
3. Defeat enemy (those guys you met all those weeks ago, you remember them? The collector dealies, those things you fought before you had to deal with all those alien's problems?).... was stupid.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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Hurr Durr Derp said:
i completely agree on just about all points, including loving the game to death despite the small annoyances/plotholes

the one thing i dont agree on is the tali thing, even she has a skintight suit and all the other characters it fits with there personality for the most part.....and with miranda's ass, would you HAVE it any other way? i sure as hell would not ;]

but hey these are all small things, but if they fixed these for me3, i would seriously fall in love and play this game to kingdom come
 

AMMO Kid

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The first Mass Effect was perfect game in my eyes. No need for ammo, great citadel, great combat, and especially a perfectly paced story! The second one didn't live up to my expectations, but is still a nice game.
Other than the opening cutscene though I would have them replace the whole game with something relevant to the story or Mass Effect. I mean seriously, all it was was a layover till the next game, with no major plot twists or anything about the Reapers. I mean come on...No Reapers? Those things were the things that kept me playing the first game!!! That scene in the lab talking with Sovereign gave me chills every time I played it!

"I am Sovereign." *chills
 

Eldarion

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StarStruckStrumpets said:
HG131 said:
WIUtomato said:
Just a quick sound-off here, the only real problem I had with this game was the planet exploration. There were too few planets to actually land on, and the "mining" process to upgrade my stuff took too bloody long! Otherwise I loved it, and at least this time around finding minerals actually did something for you.
This. And most of this is karma for us complaining instead of informing them of the good.
"Fans are clingy complaining..."

I have to agree with the Paragon thing. I felt quite restricted in my options, as I try to play as humanly as possible in my games, but as I had discovered this would cripple me later on, I went straight down the Paragon road. I thought the purpose of RPGs was to play a role, not make a decision based on the limitations I've been presented with.
How is it the games fault that you choose to give up roleplay because the other choice is slightly more rewarding? Being a good guy/bad guy isn't work out well for you 100% of the time and it shouldn't
 

Cherry Cola

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Jun 26, 2009
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AMMO Kid said:
The first Mass Effect was perfect game in my eyes. No need for ammo, great citadel, great combat, and especially a perfectly paced story! The second one didn't live up to my expectations, but is still a nice game.
Other than the opening cutscene though I would have them replace the whole game with something relevant to the story or Mass Effect. I mean seriously, all it was was a layover till the next game, with no major plot twists or anything about the Reapers. I mean come on...No Reapers? Those things were the things that kept me playing the first game!!! That scene in the lab talking with Sovereign gave me chills every time I played it!

"I am Sovereign." *chills
The Harbringer is a reaper. He "assumes direct control" on the Collector general.

And there are plenty of plot twists.
Like the collectors actually being the Protheans, or that there are Geth that aren't bad.

And the game is relevant to the universe of Mass Effect, therefore it is relevant to the plot of the series.

And I'm a little confused at you saying that Mass Effect is a perfect game, yet you imply that without Sovereign you wouldn't be playing it.
 

hangman717

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Nov 10, 2009
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ill admit that the ammo system is pointless but the conversation system was just stream lined in me2 in me1 you had a choice between intimidate and charm and the different options would give either renegade or paragon points so it still basically the same thing
 

AMMO Kid

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Hubilub said:
AMMO Kid said:
The first Mass Effect was perfect game in my eyes. No need for ammo, great citadel, great combat, and especially a perfectly paced story! The second one didn't live up to my expectations, but is still a nice game.
Other than the opening cutscene though I would have them replace the whole game with something relevant to the story or Mass Effect. I mean seriously, all it was was a layover till the next game, with no major plot twists or anything about the Reapers. I mean come on...No Reapers? Those things were the things that kept me playing the first game!!! That scene in the lab talking with Sovereign gave me chills every time I played it!

"I am Sovereign." *chills
The Harbringer is a reaper. He "assumes direct control" on the Collector general.

And there are plenty of plot twists.
Like the collectors actually being the Protheans, or that there are Geth that aren't bad.

And the game is relevant to the universe of Mass Effect, therefore it is relevant to the plot of the series.

And I'm a little confused at you saying that Mass Effect is a perfect game, yet you imply that without Sovereign you wouldn't be playing it.
They could have changed those two parts into many other forms and had the same message come across though. I'm not saying it was perfect because of Sovereign, even though it was a big part of it, I'm saying that ME2 lacked a "Sovereign" or a "Saren" to say the least. You weren't really fighting anything you knew, just the collectors in general. I didn't feel an overarching "I'm fighting these guys to get to him" kind of feeling like in the first one, just a I'm fighting these guy to get to...

...Oh, wait! out of the blue! Some random bossfight that could be replaced my something relevant like a giant robot that is guarding a portal the collectors are building so the Reapers can leave dark space! I know that they would probably use the human reaper to storm the citadel and do what Saren failed to do, but they didn't mention it themselves so I'm not sure what to think of it.