Poll: Metroid: Other M killed Samus
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Y'know, I had a much longer post written up, but all I'm going to say is that the article has some very, very good points. Fusion was a great example of humanizing Samus. Other M, on the other hand, is not. I think if it was a story set earlier in the series, where Samus hadn't already done all of the things she had done - maybe right after she'd left the Federation and started to deal with the space pirates for the first time, then it could have worked. But given that it's placed just after Super Metroid it makes no sense whatsoever. Cowering in front of Ridley, a boss she's killed...what, four times now? Not activating parts of her suit just because it hasn't been authorized? Um, what?
To people who say that Samus never showed any character and that people are only having this reaction because she was blank and mysterious, I wholeheartedly disagree. She did have character - there are scenes in the Prime series where she shows emotion, and again I have to point to Fusion as the game that did the best job of showing more of who she is without changing her character. But Other M takes almost everything that has been established about her at this point in the series and just ignores it at best while reversing it at worst. The Samus of Other M in no way matches with the Samus that's actually gone through the events of all the other games that chronologically take place before it. She's not the Samus that's basically committed genocide (or is that xenocide?) against two species, nor is she the one that's ventured into the depths of numerous planets and locales filled with enemies and come back out alive and more powerful than she was when she went in. She is at best the Samus that would have been just as she was starting her career as a bounty hunter, at which point those emotions would have made more sense. Obeying chains of command, fear at facing these enemies, and fear of seeing Ridley, the one who murdered her family and left her to die as a child. But the Samus that's faced those issues, that's persevered and endured and managed it by herself while earning a galaxy-wide reputation as being one of the best and most famous bounty hunters? No. That's not Samus, and I'm very surprised that others seem to think that it is.
To people who say that Samus never showed any character and that people are only having this reaction because she was blank and mysterious, I wholeheartedly disagree. She did have character - there are scenes in the Prime series where she shows emotion, and again I have to point to Fusion as the game that did the best job of showing more of who she is without changing her character. But Other M takes almost everything that has been established about her at this point in the series and just ignores it at best while reversing it at worst. The Samus of Other M in no way matches with the Samus that's actually gone through the events of all the other games that chronologically take place before it. She's not the Samus that's basically committed genocide (or is that xenocide?) against two species, nor is she the one that's ventured into the depths of numerous planets and locales filled with enemies and come back out alive and more powerful than she was when she went in. She is at best the Samus that would have been just as she was starting her career as a bounty hunter, at which point those emotions would have made more sense. Obeying chains of command, fear at facing these enemies, and fear of seeing Ridley, the one who murdered her family and left her to die as a child. But the Samus that's faced those issues, that's persevered and endured and managed it by herself while earning a galaxy-wide reputation as being one of the best and most famous bounty hunters? No. That's not Samus, and I'm very surprised that others seem to think that it is.
I say no, only because we can all just pretend this shit never happened. Now if they continue portraying her as such I'll probably never pick up another Metroid title again, because this is a turn for her character that is absolute crap.
Giving her emotions I can live with, giving her emotions that don't make a lick of freaking sense, like fear or the willingness to obey orders outside of "go here, kill everyone that isn't one of us, come back, get cash" not so much. Given that this woman has a mole on her face, wears high heals, and behaves like some sort of drone, when she isn't being a whiny *****, I'm going to assume this was a clone of Samus Aran that had bits of it's brain replaced with poorly-designed electronics.
Giving her emotions I can live with, giving her emotions that don't make a lick of freaking sense, like fear or the willingness to obey orders outside of "go here, kill everyone that isn't one of us, come back, get cash" not so much. Given that this woman has a mole on her face, wears high heals, and behaves like some sort of drone, when she isn't being a whiny *****, I'm going to assume this was a clone of Samus Aran that had bits of it's brain replaced with poorly-designed electronics.
I haven't played Other M and with regards to the Metroid series, I really don't care. I don't care about Samus and her expoilts and I don't think I ever will so I have no fan bias coming into this, but I have been reading about this and listening to some reviews and I've decided that I can't really comment on what I think about the character until I've played. I've heard and read reviews and to me it sounds like she completely lacks any sort of backbone and is over all pathetic but without playing it I can't really say much.
What I can say is that if you perfer this more emotional, submisive, wounded pet rabbit of a character over the stoic I think you seriously have to reconsider what you view the role of women in media as because it really doesn't come across as healthy.
When Square Enix write a brooding, emo, weakling of a character who is male into their narative and perhaps further annoy us by making them the main character we ***** and moan about how annoying they are and how their angst ruins them and how many times we've seen this character before and... blah, blah,blah. Short story is that we hate these angsty shit stains, but when a female character starts showing these exact same traist she is suddenly well developed and deep, much more interesting and oh so well written...
Yeah, fuck off. If you believe that weak angsty emo males suck while weak angsty emo females are great you should probably think real hard about that and what that means. Actually, no; I'll do it for you. It means that you aren't satisfied with a female character unless they are submisive and weak, you can't handle or believe a strong female character and may even feel threatend by their existence. The thought of a female better than you makes you feel uncomfortable so when you see a female character as weak as jelly you consider them 'better' because the alternative discomforts you so greatly.
Maybe I'm wrong, though? Maybe you just hate the stoic or maybe you like both male and female bitches, in which case there is no help for you. In the end though, I'm not you and I don't know why you dislike something but I'd be willing to bet hard money that the reason why some of you like the new Samus is for the reasons I gave above.
Theres also the fact that the character has a massive disconnect from the gameplay, which is just fucking stupid. I suppose that in some games that can't be avoided but here if feels like they were aiming for it.
Fans who hate the new Samus don't neccesarily have to worry about future games though. They can always ignore this game and change it up next time.
I have to link to Spoony's review [http://spoonyexperiment.com/page/3/] (scroll down a bit). I have a feeling that when I eventually get around to renting this I'll only end up agreeing with him.
What I can say is that if you perfer this more emotional, submisive, wounded pet rabbit of a character over the stoic I think you seriously have to reconsider what you view the role of women in media as because it really doesn't come across as healthy.
When Square Enix write a brooding, emo, weakling of a character who is male into their narative and perhaps further annoy us by making them the main character we ***** and moan about how annoying they are and how their angst ruins them and how many times we've seen this character before and... blah, blah,blah. Short story is that we hate these angsty shit stains, but when a female character starts showing these exact same traist she is suddenly well developed and deep, much more interesting and oh so well written...
Yeah, fuck off. If you believe that weak angsty emo males suck while weak angsty emo females are great you should probably think real hard about that and what that means. Actually, no; I'll do it for you. It means that you aren't satisfied with a female character unless they are submisive and weak, you can't handle or believe a strong female character and may even feel threatend by their existence. The thought of a female better than you makes you feel uncomfortable so when you see a female character as weak as jelly you consider them 'better' because the alternative discomforts you so greatly.
Maybe I'm wrong, though? Maybe you just hate the stoic or maybe you like both male and female bitches, in which case there is no help for you. In the end though, I'm not you and I don't know why you dislike something but I'd be willing to bet hard money that the reason why some of you like the new Samus is for the reasons I gave above.
Theres also the fact that the character has a massive disconnect from the gameplay, which is just fucking stupid. I suppose that in some games that can't be avoided but here if feels like they were aiming for it.
Fans who hate the new Samus don't neccesarily have to worry about future games though. They can always ignore this game and change it up next time.
I have to link to Spoony's review [http://spoonyexperiment.com/page/3/] (scroll down a bit). I have a feeling that when I eventually get around to renting this I'll only end up agreeing with him.
you know what i don't get?
how ridley hasn't developed any psychological problems, i mean he got exploded and disintegrated multiple times. if that were me i'd have some massive irrational fears of everything orange.
how ridley hasn't developed any psychological problems, i mean he got exploded and disintegrated multiple times. if that were me i'd have some massive irrational fears of everything orange.
Other M was an experiment. In a lot of people's eyes, a failed experiment.
To be frank, I only really played Super Metroid.
I can see why they added a voice- Speechless characters are alright in 8-bit, but when you're trying to tell a story with cutscenes and everything, YOU NEED YOYR CHARACTER TO BLOODY TALK.
To be frank, I only really played Super Metroid.
I can see why they added a voice- Speechless characters are alright in 8-bit, but when you're trying to tell a story with cutscenes and everything, YOU NEED YOYR CHARACTER TO BLOODY TALK.
What I see is a character development. I haven't seen any arguments that include this. Ridley was one of her toughest enemies and she found out that he just returned from the dead. I'd be pretty scared, too!
She later on gave herself permission to use her items when Adam was not around.
But then I also see that she is Lady Obvious more than Samus Aran. She already was a bounty hunter, she didn't need someone's approval. It's fine that she was a bitter little girl and turned out to be a Barby doll. (I saw that one coming seeing that Team Ninja did that.)
And what's up with the slooooow walking? You know nothing is going to happen! GAAAAAH!
Also: Retro Studios still deserve some credit. Other M looks good, but Metroid Prime was still a milestone in graphics.
Back then, seeing Samus without her suit was a reward.
Now, it's just and excuse to show her cry or to look at boobs.
She later on gave herself permission to use her items when Adam was not around.
But then I also see that she is Lady Obvious more than Samus Aran. She already was a bounty hunter, she didn't need someone's approval. It's fine that she was a bitter little girl and turned out to be a Barby doll. (I saw that one coming seeing that Team Ninja did that.)
And what's up with the slooooow walking? You know nothing is going to happen! GAAAAAH!
Also: Retro Studios still deserve some credit. Other M looks good, but Metroid Prime was still a milestone in graphics.
Back then, seeing Samus without her suit was a reward.
Now, it's just and excuse to show her cry or to look at boobs.
Strong, silent characters have been staple for ages. check westerns. The thing is, if you're gonna reveal what they're like it better be mindblowing and be much better than what any fan could imagine...it isnt that hard, just introduce a bunch of new mythos that the fans couldnt have foreseen yet fit perfectly, and define their intentions well.
I know not many people followed the Legacy of Kain series to it's entirety, but I'd say something close to what Samus needed was the way Kain was re-introduced as a main character in Defiance, in fact LOK series was incredibly convoluted in it's mythos yet it's story (gameplay was a different thing) never failed to amaze and surpass the imagination of it's meticulous fans.
I dont think Samus was taken from a 1-d character to a 3d character, she was taken from an undefined character to a 2-d character...a badass with daddy issues. Really, as a whole Other M seemed to me like it was trying to make Nitendo's MetalGearSolid out of Metroid. All the convoluted plot, the incredible amount of exposition...not even MGS does it THAT bad, the whole thumbs down thing was laughable...even gave me a whiff of Ocelot's handgestur'd thing (Remeber adam's goodbye? kinda like Ocelot's death in MGS4). Actually, now that I think about it I believe what people expected of Samus was pretty much that she behaved like Snake. a Badass with some traumas, failings, regrets...but that in the end knew how to pick herself up and has picked up a very mature view on life from all her adventures. Actually, MGS' resident baddas blonde, the Boss' personality would probably have fit Samus pretty well. Not that I'm saying MGS mythos is better off, MGS4 was far more of a disappointment than Other M in my book.
I think we're just slowly finding out all these game directors we regard as geniuses are more juvenile and failable than we'd like to believe, and specially we're finding out they'll sell out our heros for whatever the big wigs tell them the market "needs"
I know not many people followed the Legacy of Kain series to it's entirety, but I'd say something close to what Samus needed was the way Kain was re-introduced as a main character in Defiance, in fact LOK series was incredibly convoluted in it's mythos yet it's story (gameplay was a different thing) never failed to amaze and surpass the imagination of it's meticulous fans.
I dont think Samus was taken from a 1-d character to a 3d character, she was taken from an undefined character to a 2-d character...a badass with daddy issues. Really, as a whole Other M seemed to me like it was trying to make Nitendo's MetalGearSolid out of Metroid. All the convoluted plot, the incredible amount of exposition...not even MGS does it THAT bad, the whole thumbs down thing was laughable...even gave me a whiff of Ocelot's handgestur'd thing (Remeber adam's goodbye? kinda like Ocelot's death in MGS4). Actually, now that I think about it I believe what people expected of Samus was pretty much that she behaved like Snake. a Badass with some traumas, failings, regrets...but that in the end knew how to pick herself up and has picked up a very mature view on life from all her adventures. Actually, MGS' resident baddas blonde, the Boss' personality would probably have fit Samus pretty well. Not that I'm saying MGS mythos is better off, MGS4 was far more of a disappointment than Other M in my book.
I think we're just slowly finding out all these game directors we regard as geniuses are more juvenile and failable than we'd like to believe, and specially we're finding out they'll sell out our heros for whatever the big wigs tell them the market "needs"
adding character is a good idea, but I really dont want to play a whiny angsty little emo :/
how weak can you actually design her personality?
I mean, of course can she care about this and that, but not in this way, and stop saying the word "BABY" IT MAKES ME INSANE!!!!
how weak can you actually design her personality?
I mean, of course can she care about this and that, but not in this way, and stop saying the word "BABY" IT MAKES ME INSANE!!!!
I can only hope that once people calm down a little they'll realize, as I did, that what we are faulting Samus's characterization for is more about flash than substance.
Compare Samus to Naked Snake. Naked Snake's personal story centered around his "mommy" issues regarding the Boss. Snake mopes in MGS3 more than Samus does in OM; he even goes through a total breakdown that Samus never even approaches the level of -- and during it he even has to be saved by a woman, who literally helps carry him. He gets saved countless times by women: How many times did the Boss stop one of her allies from shooting him, or let him go when she could have killed him? How many times did she utterly own him? How many times did Snake keep on screwing up all throughout MGS3, far more than Samus did in Other M? How many times did he feel totally outclassed by the Boss, in a way Samus never felt by Adam? (As I recall, the most Samus ever credited Adam for was keeping a cooler head about life-or-death decisions.)
By contrast, going just by what we actually see happening in their stories, Samus behaves as much if not more badass than Snake. She physically whines less, breaks down less, gets saved less, kicks more ass...
So why the differing treatment? At first I thought it was sexism -- that Samus, being a designated "strong woman", could not be allowed to show weakness. At first. But I now realize that it's even more shallow than that:
It's the pitch of her voice -- too high, we say. It's the inflections in her speech -- too monotone, we say. It's the way she looks -- too young, we say. It's the soliloquies she is not actually speaking to anyone -- too whiny, we say, even though it is we who are prying into her most private thoughts (albeit involuntarily). It's the script, which was left literally translated instead of getting a proper treatment. It's because she overuses the word "Baby". (Seriously? Seriously.)
All ultimately shallow reasons, and totally unfair to attribute to Samus the person.
Now I am not defending Other M in terms of its quality of storytelling, I am only defending Samus as a character. It's still fair to say Other M presents her (unfairly) as whiny, the same way a deceptively edited interview can make anyone look bad, but it is NOT fair to say she actually is whiny, because she most certainly is not. That's all I'm trying to say: It's not her fault.
Compare Samus to Naked Snake. Naked Snake's personal story centered around his "mommy" issues regarding the Boss. Snake mopes in MGS3 more than Samus does in OM; he even goes through a total breakdown that Samus never even approaches the level of -- and during it he even has to be saved by a woman, who literally helps carry him. He gets saved countless times by women: How many times did the Boss stop one of her allies from shooting him, or let him go when she could have killed him? How many times did she utterly own him? How many times did Snake keep on screwing up all throughout MGS3, far more than Samus did in Other M? How many times did he feel totally outclassed by the Boss, in a way Samus never felt by Adam? (As I recall, the most Samus ever credited Adam for was keeping a cooler head about life-or-death decisions.)
By contrast, going just by what we actually see happening in their stories, Samus behaves as much if not more badass than Snake. She physically whines less, breaks down less, gets saved less, kicks more ass...
So why the differing treatment? At first I thought it was sexism -- that Samus, being a designated "strong woman", could not be allowed to show weakness. At first. But I now realize that it's even more shallow than that:
It's the pitch of her voice -- too high, we say. It's the inflections in her speech -- too monotone, we say. It's the way she looks -- too young, we say. It's the soliloquies she is not actually speaking to anyone -- too whiny, we say, even though it is we who are prying into her most private thoughts (albeit involuntarily). It's the script, which was left literally translated instead of getting a proper treatment. It's because she overuses the word "Baby". (Seriously? Seriously.)
All ultimately shallow reasons, and totally unfair to attribute to Samus the person.
Now I am not defending Other M in terms of its quality of storytelling, I am only defending Samus as a character. It's still fair to say Other M presents her (unfairly) as whiny, the same way a deceptively edited interview can make anyone look bad, but it is NOT fair to say she actually is whiny, because she most certainly is not. That's all I'm trying to say: It's not her fault.
Ooooohhh yeahh! THIS! This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when reading all these comments. I'd like to see what HL2 lovers would say if Gordon Freeman had the exact same treatment. He is just a scientist killing everyt horror that enters his field of vision and and everyone just rolls with it defends him (me included) being mute because it lets you, the player, feel and say what you want about his character. It lets you fill the blanks. Gets your imagination rolling. If he started being all emotional and crap like Samus does in MoM, there'd be hell to pay. Alas, with Sakamoto at the helm, things'll only get worse. And instead of a better Metroid GAME we'll get a better Sakamoto Samus wank in the face.Noose said:
Great, another thread about the fanboys sperging about this. Like this topic hasn't been piledrived into the ground already. Sure, Samus' character is ruined, playing an emotionless brick was far more satisfying and there is no frigging way someone at Nintendo might learn from the mistakes made in Other M (of which Samus' characterization was the least by a LOT). Nohooou sir, not gonna happen. It's ruined forever and Other M's badness is so massive that it went back into time and ruined the other games as well.
Get a frigging life guys.
Get a frigging life guys.