Poll: Minimum page count for school work.

[Xealeon]

During my years in the public school system I had to write papers on many occasions and usually the teacher would tell us it had to be X page(s) long. After writing a couple of these I began to wonder, what is the point of having a minimum page count?

The way I see it, if someone can eloquently express everything they need in one page then forcing them to write five just means they're going to have to fill their essay with useless fluff. If they can't express what they need in however much they write then it should come up during the editing process anyways.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Why do schools completely drop teaching narrative writing despite the fact that you can actually make a living writing fantasy and not so much by just writing your opinion on common issues?

School is stupid, that's why.

 

[Starnerf]

I think the idea of a minimum page count is to force the students to expand on their ideas and provide enough reasoning to support their position. It's more to get them in the habit of fully expressing an idea rather than just stating a position.

 

[Malconvoker]

I think word count makes you think a little more about what you want to say before you say it. Yes you could say it in less than a page but that might not be enough to get the point across to everyone. At the same time, having a page minimum does make people try to pad out their papers, filling it with needlessly flowery language. I'm an English major so I'm asked to write at least 4 pages for most normal papers(short papers 1-2 pages). I feel sometimes that sometimes I'm just mastering the fine art of BS-ing but sometimes I can write out a good amount.

 

[Limecake]

Why do schools still teach the Bohr model of the atom even though it's been outdated for years? Probably because public schools go for teaching simple things to the most people. After all most construction workers would never need this or creative writing so it's pretty pointless.

Anyone interested in doing writing professionally would likely learn on their own or go to post-secondary for additional education. Public schools aren't trying to get the best out of every student, just enough to get everyone by.

EDIT: Oh right there was a topic to this thread also

I think the idea of a minimum page count is to force the students to expand on their ideas and provide enough reasoning to support their position. It's more to get them in the habit of fully expressing an idea rather than just stating a position.

trust me if my teachers never gave a page count I would only have done the bare minimum to get by.

What really used to irk me was when we would have to write two page assignments about a topic without ever using the same word twice (yes this includes words like of, a, I, him, she, etc.) it got old really quickly and the whole thing needed to be in iambic pentameter.

I can honestly say I have never needed to do something even remotely similar since.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because if there weren't a minimum page count all the lazy students would write a paragraph that doesn't adequately complete the assignment and wouldn't care. If the teacher says "it will take the average student this long to write a good paper" then at least it forces them to try harder.

 

[Hashime]

A minimum page count misses the point. A well written paper will get the ideas across in as few words as possible. That being said, if a student does not write enough to get their ideas across they should be marked down for it.

 

[anthony87]

Because if there weren't a minimum page count all the lazy students would write a paragraph that doesn't adequately complete the assignment and wouldn't care. If the teacher says "it will take the average student this long to write a good paper" then at least it forces them to try harder.

And then the lazy students would fail, resulting in more people who actually put the work in because they can, not because they're told to.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because if there weren't a minimum page count all the lazy students would write a paragraph that doesn't adequately complete the assignment and wouldn't care. If the teacher says "it will take the average student this long to write a good paper" then at least it forces them to try harder.

And then the lazy students would fail, resulting in more people who actually put the work in because they can, not because they're told to.

Yeah because it's not as if the teachers job is try and improve student learning and prevent them from failing no teachers just love to let student fail. Also, social Darwinist.

 

[infinity^infinity]

I actually talked to one of my college professors about this about two semesters ago. She said it was because, from the viewpoint of the teacher, that is the minimum amount of space required to fully cover the topic. I presented your point, because that's what I felt, and still feel, at the time. She told me that getting rid of the minimum page requirement would be too much of a temptation for lazier students. If I remember correctly though my final paper was a page short and I still got an A.

 

[TehCookie]

I think they are trying to get you to talk more about the topic but I just end up writing fluff. I once turned in a paper that was too short and the teacher told me to rewrite it or I would fail. I added no new content and just repeated a few paragraphs with different phrasing. and got an A. Page counts do nothing but waste time.

 

[Melon Hunter]

I think word count works better. After all, when I've been given page counts before, I've seen people use sneaky padding tricks like using double-spaced lines or font in 14 or even 16 point size (rather than the usual 10 or 12), to get away with doing less work, something you can't get away with when using a word count. In some simplistic cases, it might be alright though.

In fact, an interesting constraint I've come across at university which I haven't really seen before is a maximum page count. An important final report for a lab session spanning four weeks was given as 'no longer than 1600 words and no more than 5 sides of A4'. In a way, that makes you think even more about how you should say what you want than a minimum count, as instead of pointless padding, you have to concisely present your findings. Quite a challenge for a natural waffler like me.

 

[Warrior Irme]

Personally I've never really had any issue with getting work done over a minimum page count. The issue arises when, and I think this is a much more useful qualifier for writing papers, there is a maximum word/page count. Trying to get your argument, with support, under a specific length causes you to think far more about how you say things rather than just what you say.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

hmm... history likes us to do about 1 side of A4 for Paper 2 (4 questions) and about 2-3 sheets for Paper 1 (Extended Essay).
english higher is 600-1300 words (has to be above 600, below 1300)

 

[anthony87]

Because if there weren't a minimum page count all the lazy students would write a paragraph that doesn't adequately complete the assignment and wouldn't care. If the teacher says "it will take the average student this long to write a good paper" then at least it forces them to try harder.

And then the lazy students would fail, resulting in more people who actually put the work in because they can, not because they're told to.

Yeah because it's not as if the teachers job is try and improve student learning and prevent them from failing no teachers just love to let student fail. Also, social Darwinist.

Maybe a little bit yeah, you say it like it's such a bad thing though.

Of course I am in fact one of the lazy students you mentioned but the way I see it is sometimes a person can write less, sometimes they can write more. It really depends on what the subject is and how invested the student is in it and yes it's useful in getting the student to work harder but there's also times where the student would be thinking to him/herself "Now...what kind of waffle can I write in order to fill out some more space.?" So it's good and bad is what I'm getting at I guess.

Also, snooty much? When I read that "Social Darwinist" line I just imagined you turning your nose up so high it reached the damn ceiling.

 

[conflictofinterests]

My teachers have always had strict layout guideline for papers (double spaced, Times New Roman, 12pt font) so pages and word count are roughly equivalent. I've gotten used to the page count as a reflection of how much space a paper should spend communicating ideas from one source (I'm often writing research papers.) In an argumentative paper with no research, it's vastly preferable not to have a minimum length, because when someone's illustrated their point, they aren't going to come up with some deeper reasoning behind it in more space, they're just going to put in fluff.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Personally I've never really had any issue with getting work done over a minimum page count. The issue arises when, and I think this is a much more useful qualifier for writing papers, there is a maximum word/page count. Trying to get your argument, with support, under a specific length causes you to think far more about how you say things rather than just what you say.

I like maximum page/word count limits much less because I feel my writing is crippled without explanation and clarification. I'm intelligent, but I have a very particular and peculiar way of putting together sentences. I don't put in much, if any fluff in any argument, so what it comes down to is removing flow words and sentences, and getting rid of any words that have already been implied, but haven't been stated yet. Each piece I have to trim makes my work, in my eyes, much less accessible.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because if there weren't a minimum page count all the lazy students would write a paragraph that doesn't adequately complete the assignment and wouldn't care. If the teacher says "it will take the average student this long to write a good paper" then at least it forces them to try harder.

And then the lazy students would fail, resulting in more people who actually put the work in because they can, not because they're told to.

Yeah because it's not as if the teachers job is try and improve student learning and prevent them from failing no teachers just love to let student fail. Also, social Darwinist.

Maybe a little bit yeah, you say it like it's such a bad thing though.

Of course I am in fact one of the lazy students you mentioned but the way I see it is sometimes a person can write less, sometimes they can write more. It really depends on what the subject is and how invested the student is in it and yes it's useful in getting the student to work harder but there's also times where the student would be thinking to him/herself "Now...what kind of waffle can I write in order to fill out some more space.?" So it's good and bad is what I'm getting at I guess.

Also, snooty much? When I read that "Social Darwinist" line I just imagined you turning your nose up so high it reached the damn ceiling.

Funny I imagine myself standing on top of a house floating down the river wearing a pirate outfit spotting you with a spyglass on the shore and yelling it at you. Of course I'm just weird like that.

 

[JaceArveduin]

My comp I teacher told us that if you can make your point in 1 1/2 to 2 pages, so that's the limit, somewhere in the middle there. I like it myself, I usually don't have to pull shit out of my ass to get the required length, and sometimes I have to use depadding techniques to get it all to fit.

 

[D-tritus Debris]

Minimum page count is stupid for one simple reason: if you write in cursive, than for example 2 pages are different between students, considering the inherent difference in the handwriting of different people. As far as I am concerned, minimum word-count should be enforced instead of minimum page.