Poll: Moral choice systems in games

[teisjm]

From what i've heard about infamous (cause i haven't played it) i think yatzee is just ranting uselessly.

The problem is that people expect a morale choice system to be a real-life sumilation sort of thingy. It isn't, but that doesn't mean it's horrible. Thats liek saying Crysis was horrible if we had excpected full photorealism and "only" got as-close-to-PR-as-a-game-has-ever-been.

Take Diablo for example. You can play the game several times with the different classes, noone is whining about the game beeing the same for every class.

Look at Infamous, or any other game with a simple morale feature, that way.
You can play the game as the good guy, or as the bad guy. If they had released it with only one opttion, and never had any plans of moral i don't think people would've whined. Now you actually have a betetr chance of getting a different game experiece on your second playthough, but thats apparently bad news.

people are whining about getting 2 ways to play the game instead of one, because of what? It's ok if you can only be good (most games) it's also fine if you can only be bad (games like overlord and many others) but if the game actually gives you both options it suddenly sucks, cause you can't chose everything in between? Thats just stupid.

Guess we should all hate counter strike for only representing 4 different terrorist groups/anti terror forces, should've just gone with one if they couldn't include every group tehre exists.

 

[Neotericity]

I liked Mass Effect's moral choices because I actually felt empowered choosing things like deciding whether an entire species lives or spoiler. But in many games the choices don't seem that hard or have neither an emotional impact or gameplay impact.

 

[bobbidog]

Moral choice systems inevitably run into one issue: there isn't any room for a middle ground, or a good reason behind an 'evil' choice. I feel a morality system should be replaced with something much simpler: consequences.

Moral choice systems usually go something like this: You see a widow. Do you give her money and sympathy or do you push her into the mud and laugh? Afterwords, that widow is never seen again, nor did your actions affect the game world in any way beyond the few 'good/evil points' you recieved.

Instead, I feel the whole concept of karma meters should be eliminated. Replace it with a story where your actions have real, discernable effects on the world and its inhabitants. Whether your actions were good or evil would be left to the judgement of the player.

 

[Bocaj2000]

I liked Mass Effect's moral choices because I actually felt empowered choosing things like deciding whether an entire species lives or spoiler. But in many games the choices don't seem that hard or have neither an emotional impact or gameplay impact.

I agree. Mass Effect was the only game where I feel like I can make my own decisions. Even in KoTOR 2 to get to a certain part I had to end my Chaotic Goodness for a short while and be an angel. Hell I couldn't equip my lightsaber at one point. There needs to be gameplay based not on only Good or Bad, but on the nine alignments of DnD

 

[Neotericity]

I liked Mass Effect's moral choices because I actually felt empowered choosing things like deciding whether an entire species lives or spoiler. But in many games the choices don't seem that hard or have neither an emotional impact or gameplay impact.

I agree. Mass Effect was the only game where I feel like I can make my own decisions. Even in KoTOR 2 to get to a certain part I had to end my Chaotic Goodness for a short while and be an angel. Hell I couldn't equip my lightsaber at one point. There needs to be gameplay based not on only Good or Bad, but on the nine alignments of DnD

Wow that would work really well, great idea hoewver hard it would be to paste into a non DhD ip

 

[RyQ_TMC]

I don't think moral choices are essential - a well-written story can compensate for a lot of limitations - but they enhance the experience. But I agree with most posters here in that the choice is just too binary in most games, and often too obvious, with immediate consequences.

A game which tried to make the choice system a little deeper was "The Witcher", and I think it handled it rather well, considering it more of an experiment in that department. Sure, a lot of choices had easily foreseeable consequences, and the game would sometimes go to ridiculous lengths to steer you towards the 'right' decision, but there were a few times when hours after making a decision, you were suddenly hit with consequences of which you haven't even thought before... And this was delightful.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to see a game which works the moral framework into the gameplay outside of dialogue / target choices. The way you handle hostile encounters, for example, or your idea of wealth acquisition (I don't think I remember any game which considered you evil or unlawful for stealing).

 

[War Penguin]

I don't hate morality in games but I hate how they're exploited.
Developers usually treat them like poor excuses for replay value.

 

[Omikron009]

Moral choice systems are kind of neat, but in most games they have no impact whatsoever. An example of an incredibly poorly implemented moral choice system is the one in Jedi Knight 3: Jedi Academy. It's essentially based on one choice made later in the game. If the evil choice is made EVERY unit, Jedi or Sith, is hostile in the last level and the endboss is different. It sucks. In Fallout 3 the karma system, as far as I can tell, doesn't change the experience in any way, shape or form. Please correct me if I'm wrong. We need a game where the experience is shaped by the decisions you make, and not just in a superficial way. Otherwise, by all means kill them.

 

[Khazoth]

I want an evil path that is not totally fucking dickish.


There is a difference between being a dick and being evil. What the fuck do you gain from blowing up a nuclear warhead for a thousand caps.. And attracting the attention of the entire capital fucking wasteland. Give me an evil path that is not completely stupid, something that can at least make sense.


Dear Developers: A good villain does not think he is evil, infact, they believe their doing the right thing.

 

[SimuLord]

I'm not a big fan of moral choice systems because they're way too black and white. Yahtzee's comments (what was it, "Mother Teresa or baby eating"?) are pretty much spot-on. For morality to work it has to not only be shades of grey (as in your actions have context depending on the NPC's own view of what constitutes good and evil), it also has to make a measure of sense in the context of the game. As things now stand you can help an old grandma across the street, run a few quests for merchants, and do whatever for +5 karma, then you can rip the heart out of a baby and eat it and if the game decides that's worth -5 karma then you're in the interesting position of where people will have a totally neutral opinion of you. There's something wrong (and a little too facile) with that.

 

[obehave_wan]

My favorite useless choice system was in Mass Effect. I played the game three times, and the dialogue choices almost always led to the same conclusion. The ultimate worthless choice system.

 

[ninja555]

I wouldn't mind them to much if it wasn't for the sheer contrast between the choices.
Just Give us some neutral choices for a change

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

I really like moral choice systems. I know the choices are usually quite black and white but at least you have some sort of choice, better than a completely linear game in my opinion. I thought some of the choices in Fallout 3 were quite tough to make.

 

[JediMB]

I like the moral choice system as an idea, but how successfully implemented it is varies. (And many games don't need one at all.)

While I do like the relatively good variety of dialog options in Mass Effect (although that game really has more of a reputation system), something I do miss is the ability to play as a bad guy pretending to be a good guy, or vice versa. I want to be able to lie more! I think that could make the character you're playing as a lot more interesting on a personal level.

 

[Eagle Est1986]

I think it's a great idea, it just hasn't been properley executed yet. I'd love to see it done right (reckon Dragon Age might do it), but if it's not done right, it shouldn't be done at all.

 

[CmdrGoob]

The best kind of moral choice system is exemplified in The Witcher - it gives you moral choices and the choices have important consequences for how the game will play out but it doesn't have good/evil points or gauges that you get to see.

That means it can give you morally ambigious and interesting choices you have to interpret for yourself, it doesn't have to hold your hand and tell you that was is the good option, here are your good points for your goodness gauge.

 

[Shadowfaze]

Indifference. I neither particularly like nor dislike them.

completely agree. it doesnt matter. plus, its nice to play the same game twice, but only if its good. but people who complain about this sorta thing need to find something less rediculous to complain about, like why oranges are round.

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

It depends on the game I believe. For example, there are games where I don't give a crap about the choice and then there are games like Splinter Cell: Double Agent which has (in my opinion) the best moral choices I've ever seen in any game.

 

[Neur0t0xin]

Personally, I think that in some games, they really work. In anything designed by Molyneux, it feels forced and arbitrary. But in games like The Witcher, they were really well done, in my opinion.

 

[Valate_v1legacy]

They need to go away. If I want my character too look like an angel AND kill every innocent in the land, then I should be able to.