Poll: Moral Choice Systems-Their Place in Modern Day Gaming

[Rednog]

Besides how you interact with major NPCs the system needs to die. I'm sorry but playing something like Dishonored where you realize most of the population is fucked up why does Corvo need to be a saint? Ok sure let me decide to let another NPC handle the big named people but if a bunch of guards decide to jump me and try to kill me I don't think anyone would call you the spawn of satan for defending yourself.

 

[el_kabong]

I voted indifferent, though I'm more in the "depends on the game" camp. I'm not fully sold on moral choice systems because I never feel that I'm getting equal treatment from both endings.

Most games with a moral choice system seem like one of the choices is an after-thought. In other words, they thought of a really good way to reach a conclusion to the story, then came up with an antithesis. The problem with this is that thematic resources (like music and level design) seem to be made with one theme in mind.

So, while you may be on the "evil" side of the morality scale, most likely you're experiencing the game as though you were still a good guy. The music may still be scored with that "heroic" air about it. NPCs still ask you to save their kitten despite the fact that you've killed more innocent people than cancer. Usually, the only indication that you're on one side versus the other is the look of your character and available powers. If you're lucky, you may get the occasional color commentary from an NPC. If all elements of the game would integrate into the morality system it would be a lot more epic. If the music has a blend of ranges from heroic to ominous that changes with your character, how much better would the system feel? If you're dealing with an open world, what if level design started deteriorating if your character is a destructive prick?

Another way one could improve morality systems is by leaving out a Good vs. Evil mentality. Usually, when people come up with different options for good and evil, they are typically hyperbole. I'd much prefer choices based on the dichotomy between selfless and selfish. Will you save a stranger or your traveling companion? Will you use your newly found relic to heal a former enemy or use it to charge your personal power? If you have to collect a bounty on a murderer, do you go the extra mile to bring them in alive or take the easy route and kill them? These types of scenarios are much more interesting to ponder than most found in current morality systems. Morality doesn't have to be good vs. evil, it's about what a person holds to be true and/or valuable.

 

[krazykidd]

Bioshocks moral choice system was a hit and miss. I mean, it had a place, but the choices were between eviscerate a small childs heart or rescue them into a land of sunshine and flowers. Like, wat.

Unfortunately, that's what most developers think "free moral choice systems" are. Between devilish and angelic.

Yeah , but you miss the reward for consuming ( or whatever ) those little girls . I think that's why they actually made them little girls , because you know most people frown on hurting children ( for some reason ) . So it was a choice between , consume little girl and get points for you upgrades , or don't and be a good guy but get nothing . I personally took all their souls because i hate children .

OT: i like it as long as there is consequence or reward . Even without it it's still a good system to have . The harder the choice the better . Especially if you don't see the consequence( good or bad ) from a mile away, or as long as the rewards have equal value .

 

[Full]

snip

I personally took all their souls because i hate children .

Same, got all dem plasmid slots.

 

[nexus]

Two-dimensional technology for two-dimensional minds

Correction: one dimensional - there is (usually) only one axis - good/evil. Influx of 2D morality would actually be an improvement.

That's interesting...

I wouldn't figure that both good and evil were bound to the same axis, and one-dimensional. That's a different way of looking at it I suppose.

 

[AngloDoom]

See: The Walking Dead games.

There aren't moral choices, just choices. If you keep choosing two totally different options on every line of dialogue, they'll still seem to fit the character because they're all understandable ways of reacting to that situation and, if they are ridiculously contradictory, someone will point it out.

When I panicked in a situation that lead to Clementine seeing me do something I said I would never do, she was devastated. She pointed out I'd acted differently than I had suggested and started to lose faith in me. I felt absolutely sickened by what I did, even though at the time it seemed the only logical and safe thing for all of us, but by trying to keep everyone (mostly Clementine <3) safe I temporarily made her feel that she wasn't safe even around me. I got her forgiveness in the end, but it's affected the way I treat her character in general now - I'm honest to possibly a fault, but for everything I say at least she knows I'm not going to lie to her.

Dilemma - Choice - Result - Response.

 

[iblis666]

to hell with moral choice I want multiple choice so that instead of being judged on points im judged on my actions.

 

[marurder]

Moral choices are good. Their implementation as a numerical system isn't as good.

There are more directions to go than 'good' or 'bad'.

 

[DoPo]

Two-dimensional technology for two-dimensional minds

Correction: one dimensional - there is (usually) only one axis - good/evil. Influx of 2D morality would actually be an improvement.

That's interesting...

I wouldn't figure that both good and evil were bound to the same axis, and one-dimensional. That's a different way of looking at it I suppose.

Well, it's mostly either good or evil with probably neutral in between. Games don't have a habit of presenting varying degrees of good mixed in with evil for it to be a 2D grid.

 

[Trivun]

Hmmm, this isn't anything to do with Haywire, is it? No worries if it is, I'm just curious as I've literally this moment emailed my own first draft of an article for next issue...

Anyhow, personally I like moral choice systems, PROVIDED THEY'RE DONE WELL. It's like, it won't diminish my enjoyment of a game - a still love both Bioshocks even though the moral choice system is very basic and doesn't serve anything except to maybe give a bit more resource in the game and change the ending very slightly. But I'm both a reader a writer, and I have a natural inclination to exploring morally grey situations. Some of the Halo books (Ghosts of Onyx and Glasslands/The Thursday War, to be exact) are intriguing to me because they explore opposite sides (because of the different writer viewpoints) of the same moral argument (regarding the Spartans). When I write stories I like to create characters who have grey morality rather than black and white, and then explore how that affects them and the people around them and the events occurring. One of my 'good' characters is mildly psychotic and enjoys torturing people, yet is staunchly against things like murder. Another one is happy to bring about war to a whole world yet turns on her boss for committing mass murder and destroying an entire city with an antimatter bomb.

The point is, moral choices can be very interesting tools of storytelling, and I'm an advocate of great storytelling in games (as if there's anyone on the Escapist who isn't). Therefore, moral choices can be used well in games. I unfortunately have yet to see a great game that uses it well, though. We almost always end up with choices that simply add points to swing you one way or the other, and end up at either extreme. Fallout 3 (and I assume New Vegas, although I've not played that one yet) does it better than most, but even then you have arbitrary barriers that when crossed plant you firmly in one of three territories - Good, Neutral, or Evil. The only real effect it then has is on the attitude of some characters to you, certain dialogue choices, and the choice of companions, and all this is easily changed by doing a few good/evil deeds in the Wasteland that take half an hour of playing to achieve. Ultimately, there's no real permanent consequence to your choices. The article I mentioned above is about choice in visual novels, but it all boils down to the same thing - a choice system is only good if the consequences are what matter. It's not the choice itself that's important. The results of the choice are what writers need to think about. That is how you make a well-done moral choice system.

 

[Launcelot111]

Fallout New Vegas is the best of what I've seen in that you don't make good or bad choices as much as pro-NCR or -Legion or whatnot. The only weakness in this system is that killing the Legion gives you good karma.

Mass Effect was also pretty good in that you would always choose something that went towards the goal of your mission regardless of whether you were being nice or a sociopath, though the metagaming of wanting enough paragon points for dialogue options undercut this.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

The only weakness in this system is that killing the Legion gives you good karma.

I think the possible reason is that, for the most part, if you aren't "with legion" then they consider you an enemy for the most part, as they rape/pillage/kill just about anyone who isn't already their slave/pledged to caeser.

Otherwise i'd agree F:NV is pretty damn good, it also has the most dialogue in a game ever according to that Guinness world record thing.

OT: I don't mind moral systems, i can see WHY they are bad/good in alot of examples, but they never bother me really, i'd prefer to have one then not having anything/choice at all.

 

[Mikejames]

Depends on how it's done. KOTOR's was fun, but was mainly if you wanted to play a stereotypically heroic or evil character. Dragon Age and Mass Effect are more enjoyable in the morally gray department.

I feel like repeating myself to death here but when in doubt: do what Spec Ops: The Line did.

Agreed. Choices were impactful, but their wasn't a moral scale so much as forcing you to choose between two horrible situations. As well as the fact that it was in real-time, which made me respond with raw emotion more-so than common sense, which is rare for a game to do.

 

[jamoecw]

...Where I can have a companion that resents me and regrets joining my group, and might even try to stab me in the back for being a dick. Where I can get a frosty reception by a character because I did something callous and they heard about it. Where an NPC returns from abroad and hunts me down for assassinating a family member of theirs, and spares me a fight depending on how I explain my actions...

mount and blade has the first 2. there are some older games that had these things, and some non AAA games out there today, pretty much why there is an independent market.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I like the idea more than the implementation. Yahtzee has talked about it before in several ZP episodes and I agree that good and evil should be approached in more of an, right versus easy kind of thing (also asshole options of course). It's kind of goofy though how in some games you could go from being a living embodiment of evil to the reborn amalgamation of Christ and the Dalai Lama...and it's all dependent on if you say "please" and "thank you" (also not shooting random passers-by)!

 

[Naeras]

Binary moral system(Mass Effect, Infamous, etc) choices are dumb because then choices become a stat-grind, not moral choices.

Moral dilemmas that aren't related to stats(Deus Ex: Human Revolution, The Walking Dead, etc), however, are one of the greatest tools games have for storytelling, because it involves the player in the moral dilemma rather than just presenting it for them.

 

[Myndnix]

Binary moral system(Mass Effect, Infamous, etc) choices are dumb because then choices become a stat-grind, not moral choices.

Moral dilemmas that aren't related to stats(Deus Ex: Human Revolution, The Walking Dead, etc), however, are one of the greatest tools games have for storytelling, because it involves the player in the moral dilemma rather than just presenting it for them.

Pretty much this.
I've yet to see a game do moral choices right, however. Then again, in real life, moral choices aren't just a straight divide between good and evil. Fiction will do as fiction does, I guess.