Morality systems can be good when done properly, so rarely, but I think with a bit more variation they'd be better possibly
Poll: Morality Systems: Good or Bad?
- Thread starter dfcrackhead
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I perceived him as quite sentient. Especially after I told him he was an android. after all, Zimmer said it was the biggest project ever and you have to bring him back and blah-di-blah-blah.zehydra said:
All the quests in Rivet City are superb considering the moral choice system as well as the rest of Fallout 3.
I think GTA4 also has a good one. You just don't know what will have a bigger impact.
I dislike games where your choices are too polarized, for example fallout 3 is extremely easy to go from one end of the spectrum to the other whereas infamous takes years to get to the opposite.
Also there needs to be more options, i liked the different abilities in infamous but beyond that the story isn't immensely different and with most games saving before making a large difference to your morality lets you play both easily
Also there needs to be more options, i liked the different abilities in infamous but beyond that the story isn't immensely different and with most games saving before making a large difference to your morality lets you play both easily
I like the concept.
But usually it's Give away all your money to a stranger or eat kittens.
There isn't really a nice believable "heroic vs egoistic" morality system. Or I just haven't found one.
But usually it's Give away all your money to a stranger or eat kittens.
There isn't really a nice believable "heroic vs egoistic" morality system. Or I just haven't found one.
I find the execution flawed.
Sure, the 'good' paths are tend to be okay but the 'evil' paths just tend to be very juvenile and dickish, relying on random violence and cunty attitudes. If I'm supposed to be Evil then where is my Evil Plan? Why am I stuck at henchman level cruelty and cockheadedness?
Sure, the 'good' paths are tend to be okay but the 'evil' paths just tend to be very juvenile and dickish, relying on random violence and cunty attitudes. If I'm supposed to be Evil then where is my Evil Plan? Why am I stuck at henchman level cruelty and cockheadedness?
You realize that you rate morality systems with another morality system with words that exist only in concept of morality system. You are either very smart and you are laughing now because you pulled clever prank that low IQ idiots won't notice, or you are very stupid to try to really ask question idiotic as this.
Your poll experiences the same failure as most moral choice systems: the utter lack of grey areas. Moral choice isn't 'good' or 'bad', most implementations are poorly done.
However, I wouldn't think of declaring moral choice systems as 'bad' because they aren't fully fledged. I'm still hoping that they will eventually gain their wings and let us soar out into moral ambiguity.
However, I wouldn't think of declaring moral choice systems as 'bad' because they aren't fully fledged. I'm still hoping that they will eventually gain their wings and let us soar out into moral ambiguity.
Systems where certain characters approve and disapprove are more realistic, like in Fallout 2, Dragon Age and Red Dead Redemption.
That way it's not the game judging you, but the characters.
That way it's not the game judging you, but the characters.
Don't off it just because it hasn't been done properly. That way of looking at things is exactly why most games versions of it suck. I think it needs to not be looked at as a punishment/reward system in games and more just be there effecting the environment in various ways. (Although said ways not be punishments vs. rewards) Just add replay value.
I always liked the morality system in Fallout 1 and 2. Back in those games, different towns thought of you in a different manner and if you pissed off a town that had frequent commerce with another, that would color their opinion of you. It also wasn't a choice between 'Good' and 'Evil' it was just a differentiation of what crowd you would fall-in (See what I did there?).
I like to see consequences to my actions in my games, whether good or ill. Consequences other than filling up a couple of arbitary bars marked "good" and "evil". It hink developers are barking up the wrong tree with this particular mechanic, there's so much more potential...
Often bad seeing as being neutral is the equivalent of being level 1 in some of them.
Some are good but on the whole they make you play the game twice for the full effect.
Some are good but on the whole they make you play the game twice for the full effect.
I don't like morality systems, they seem to be a choice between petting kittens and punching babies and then make it so you have to stick with one you have chosen for the rest of the game, I.E. In Mass Effect 2 you could choose paragon or renegade or neutral BUT then made it so that some things could only be done if you had enough paragon/renegade.
I want to be able to play how I would do if I were in the game world, let me kill the really annoying guy without making it so that I can't save a town from people I don't like... It gets really annoying having to have these crappy morality systems in games... I just want to play for example an RPG where I can actually put myself in the role of the character. Though after all this I still do enjoy having a moral scale to see how evil/good I am.
I want to be able to play how I would do if I were in the game world, let me kill the really annoying guy without making it so that I can't save a town from people I don't like... It gets really annoying having to have these crappy morality systems in games... I just want to play for example an RPG where I can actually put myself in the role of the character. Though after all this I still do enjoy having a moral scale to see how evil/good I am.
Something else.
I wonder when people will realize there really is no such thing as a 'neutral' choice. All decisions you make will be considered bad or good. Through action or inaction.
People asking for shades of gray. It doesn't ultimately mean anything. Some of the complaints i have heard are silly.
Take Bioshock. People complain your only options or Kill or save the little sisters. The only other option would be to walk away, do not harvest them or save them and leave them to be murdered by another splicer. Wait, wouldn't that technically be a poor choice seeing as you left a child to die. Not only but i have heard people complain about Bioshock "not rewarding them for only killing the first few girls then saving the rest". Realistically you should still get the bad ending. "Hey, i only killed 6 of the kids at the daycare! What about the 18 i didn't murder? Doesn't that count for something?"
No. In the real world Your actions are not worth points to be quantified. Saving twenty children does not excuse the 4 your murdered in cold blood for power. A more real system would be no matter how hard you try to be good the second you do something bad your demonized. Does that sound like fun? Its far more realistic. No matter how many gifts you give someone most will never forgive you for beating the shit out of them and taking there stuff.
Shades of gray? How many different ways do you want to do the same thing. Still no matter what you will not be neutral. No matter what your actions will be seen as good or bad by those around you. So which system is better.
I see a injured civilian! Should I:
Finish em off
Save
Ignore
Or...
Finish em off
Punch them to death
Drop rocks on them to death
Vapourize them
Make someone else kill them
Make them walk until they pass out and die
Torture them
Tickle them so they lose all there fluids slowly while laughing
Sit and stare at them till they bleed to death
Save them
Use electric powers to save
Use a med kit
Find a doctor
Call to see if there is a doctor
Call for a nurse
Go look for a nurse
Try and feed them food
Try and feed them water
Try and use nearby scraps as medical supplies
Ignore them
Go for ice cream
Have a coke
Chillax with a Kit Kat
Hug some puppies
Seriously do anything but heal or kill them. How many different ways do you need do nothing spelled out.
Still, ignoring the injured people can be see as an evil act.
In all seriousness the only way to truly be neutral is to have nothing to do with it from the beginning.
In Bioshock this would mean turning off the Radio and sitting cross legged in front of the bathosphere and wait to die.
In Infamous this would mean never leaving Zeke's place. Just sitting on the couch charging the batteries on the roof to watch TV. Even then it can be seen as doing a favor for Zeke keeping everything powered.
So the choice is yours. Play a game where they condense twenty different options into two or three clear options or play a game where every time a choice comes up you have to sift through thirty different options, all of them only having a small, if that, effect in difference to each other and no matter how good you are one mistake you make equals instant damnation in the eyes who saw you commit these crimes. Closing off entire portions of the games because you pissed someone off and they are holding a grudge against you for life. You know like real life.
I wonder when people will realize there really is no such thing as a 'neutral' choice. All decisions you make will be considered bad or good. Through action or inaction.
People asking for shades of gray. It doesn't ultimately mean anything. Some of the complaints i have heard are silly.
Take Bioshock. People complain your only options or Kill or save the little sisters. The only other option would be to walk away, do not harvest them or save them and leave them to be murdered by another splicer. Wait, wouldn't that technically be a poor choice seeing as you left a child to die. Not only but i have heard people complain about Bioshock "not rewarding them for only killing the first few girls then saving the rest". Realistically you should still get the bad ending. "Hey, i only killed 6 of the kids at the daycare! What about the 18 i didn't murder? Doesn't that count for something?"
No. In the real world Your actions are not worth points to be quantified. Saving twenty children does not excuse the 4 your murdered in cold blood for power. A more real system would be no matter how hard you try to be good the second you do something bad your demonized. Does that sound like fun? Its far more realistic. No matter how many gifts you give someone most will never forgive you for beating the shit out of them and taking there stuff.
Shades of gray? How many different ways do you want to do the same thing. Still no matter what you will not be neutral. No matter what your actions will be seen as good or bad by those around you. So which system is better.
I see a injured civilian! Should I:
Finish em off
Save
Ignore
Or...
Finish em off
Punch them to death
Drop rocks on them to death
Vapourize them
Make someone else kill them
Make them walk until they pass out and die
Torture them
Tickle them so they lose all there fluids slowly while laughing
Sit and stare at them till they bleed to death
Save them
Use electric powers to save
Use a med kit
Find a doctor
Call to see if there is a doctor
Call for a nurse
Go look for a nurse
Try and feed them food
Try and feed them water
Try and use nearby scraps as medical supplies
Ignore them
Go for ice cream
Have a coke
Chillax with a Kit Kat
Hug some puppies
Seriously do anything but heal or kill them. How many different ways do you need do nothing spelled out.
Still, ignoring the injured people can be see as an evil act.
In all seriousness the only way to truly be neutral is to have nothing to do with it from the beginning.
In Bioshock this would mean turning off the Radio and sitting cross legged in front of the bathosphere and wait to die.
In Infamous this would mean never leaving Zeke's place. Just sitting on the couch charging the batteries on the roof to watch TV. Even then it can be seen as doing a favor for Zeke keeping everything powered.
So the choice is yours. Play a game where they condense twenty different options into two or three clear options or play a game where every time a choice comes up you have to sift through thirty different options, all of them only having a small, if that, effect in difference to each other and no matter how good you are one mistake you make equals instant damnation in the eyes who saw you commit these crimes. Closing off entire portions of the games because you pissed someone off and they are holding a grudge against you for life. You know like real life.