Poll: My friend is a Communist

[chadachada123]

I'm a strong, strong libertarian.

That said, my *ideal* political system is very much like communism, and something I like to call "voluntary communalism." It's basically socially-enforced communism/communalism, but with an emphasis on basic human liberty. I recognize that, because humans are naturally greedy assholes, this will never work, so I support the next best thing, libertarianism. My ideal system would only work if the majority of humanity was not greedy and not selfish like I am.

So in that sense, yeah, your friend's position is understandable to me. I'm not about to join an Israeli commune since my life right now is tolerable, and that's good enough for me. Whether I own my car or everyone *technically* owns my car is a little bit lower on my priority list compared to other rights and issues.

 

[Wintermoot]

yes,
I personally considered myself a communist to until I realized that in a communistic government some people consider themselves more equal then others.

And this is why i hate animal farm. What does this even mean? Its gibberish, just used as an excuse to dismiss the issue.

I never read Animal Farm, the only one of Orwell's works I ever read/saw is the movie adaptation of 1984.

Okay. So what does "more equal than others" mean? That was kinda the important bit of my post.

during the communist era some politicians took more then any other citizen.
thus making themselves "more equal" then a regular citizen.
the problem with communism is that humans are inherently imperfect.

 

[CaptainKarma]

yes,
I personally considered myself a communist to until I realized that in a communistic government some people consider themselves more equal then others.

And this is why i hate animal farm. What does this even mean? Its gibberish, just used as an excuse to dismiss the issue.

I never read Animal Farm, the only one of Orwell's works I ever read/saw is the movie adaptation of 1984.

Okay. So what does "more equal than others" mean? That was kinda the important bit of my post.

during the communist era some politicians took more then any other citizen.
thus making themselves "more equal" then a regular citizen.
the problem with communism is that humans are inherently imperfect.

That doesn't make them more equal, that means they take a greater share. "more equal" is an absolutely meaningless term, thats the whole point behind the phrase in the novel - its about how a totalitarian (which is not the same as communist) government uses propaganda and bends language for its own ends.

And the "inherently imperfect" thing is the greatest con-trick ever pulled. What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect and greedy by nature, and not just molded into that by a capitalist system? And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

 

[Pyro Paul]

any one that truely says 'i'm communist' truely doesn't know what communism is and is usually just some type of 'reformist' which wants change from the current system because they feel it is broken...

Communism, in its most pure form, is equiality based on capability.
You are only as equial as what you are able to provide.

In a more direct comparison.
If your female friend is only really capable of having children, then she is as equial to a Whore and given the same lot in life. As high she may think her social status may be, or her keen intelect may carry her, it is only in a Republic based society where those attributes come to mean anything...

It is why most communist societies fail.
Some people are more equial then others.


As to the orginal question:
I can say i'm a dolphin.
I can say i'm the govener of Mars.
I can say that i piss gold and shit bricks.

saying and doing are two VERY diffrent things.

As much as she wants to say that she holds commuist ideals to heart or that she truely identifies with those said ideals is absolutely meaningless if she does not acctively engage or attempt to engage in those ideals in her normal life.

And no, you don't need to over throw a nation to be a specific 'ist'... an 'ist' is how your life is defined in your social interactions with others. You can be communist in how you and your friends/community interact with each other and deal with communal problems that arise in your society...

 

[Random Fella]

She's just a hipster, she can have her own views I suppose
Why not tell her to move then?

 

[RESURRECTION21]

Good. I hope the OP's friend is a Communist. Today's sick capitalist society needs more Communists. Here's to hoping she doesn't lapse into defending the status quo. Communism might not be the best political system but it's better than one based on the "free market."

Captcha: thinking cap

lol indeed.

(can not tell if jokeing)

 

[CaptainKarma]

any one that truely says 'i'm communist' truely doesn't know what communism is and is usually just some type of 'reformist' which wants change from the current system because they feel it is broken...

Communism, in its most pure form, is equiality based on capability.
You are only as equial as what you are able to provide.

In a more direct comparison.
If your female friend is only really capable of having children, then she is as equial to a Whore and given the same lot in life. As high she may think her social status may be, or her keen intelect may carry her, it is only in a Republic based society where those attributes come to mean anything...

It is why most communist societies fail.
Some people are more equial then others.

What? If she's "only really capable of having children" then how will living in a capitalist society (which is what I assume you mean, a republic can be capitalist or communist, there's no conflict there) suddenly make her capable of more?

That doesn't make them more equal, that means they take a greater share. "more equal" is an absolutely meaningless term, thats the whole point behind the phrase in the novel - its about how a totalitarian (which is not the same as communist) government uses propaganda and bends language for its own ends.

And the "inherently imperfect" thing is the greatest con-trick ever pulled. What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect and greedy by nature, and not just molded into that by a capitalist system? And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

I'm pretty sure that's the way he's using the phrase.

It's a riff on people who say one thing and do another.

And human history is a history of greed, corruption and self service. A history that stretches back long before capitalism.

Here's the thing: If that happens, it is NOT proper communism. It is corrupt communism. And I don't give a damn how far back greed and corruption go, thats still no reason we should embrace greed and not combat it.

 

[A Satanic Panda]

America for example for its supposed hate for all things "Socialist" is a very Socialist society. Things like roads, government funded hospitals, military, police forces, fire fighters, teachers, public education, the VA, Medicare, and even the idea of elected officals, are all very very very "un-capitalist".

Not at all. Socialism in an American context refers to entitlement programs: medicare, medicaid, social security, and publicly funded education, but there's nothing "socialist" whatsoever about a government raising an army to protect its subjects or hiring police officers to enforce its laws. Public roads are also hardly "un-capitalist", as no private enterprise has ever bothered to build road networks and charge travelers for using them.

To a point. Ever hear of the military-industrial complex?

Spoiler: US Military Budget 2011 (They ain't even trollen)

That's a 700 billion USD injection every year that pays for millions of jobs right out of taxes.

 

[ElPatron]

Communism isn't that bad. West Europe and America just make Communism sound like the political party of Satan.

Of course not. The equal sharing of poverty is awesome!

Communism didn't work in real life, and don't think that it makes sense in paper. There are a myriad reasons to consider all forms of Communism and Marxism inherently flawed.

I see what you're getting at OP- Your friend could well be an anarchist in which case you'd be asking why does she obey the law?

Anarchy =/= GTA in real life

It works in theory and paper. Not in real life. I can't be more clear.

Wikipedia has a page on the criticisms of communism, that tackles the drawbacks of mass killings and ect, etc, etc.

Don't read that one. Read the one that talks about communism in theory.

Every major political system on wikipedia is flawed in theory. Communism is not an exception.

 

[CaptainKarma]

That doesn't make them more equal, that means they take a greater share. "more equal" is an absolutely meaningless term, thats the whole point behind the phrase in the novel - its about how a totalitarian (which is not the same as communist) government uses propaganda and bends language for its own ends.

And the "inherently imperfect" thing is the greatest con-trick ever pulled. What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect and greedy by nature, and not just molded into that by a capitalist system? And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

I'm pretty sure that's the way he's using the phrase.

It's a riff on people who say one thing and do another.

And human history is a history of greed, corruption and self service. A history that stretches back long before capitalism.

Here's the thing: If that happens, it is NOT proper communism. It is corrupt communism. And I don't give a damn how far back greed and corruption go, thats still no reason we should embrace greed and not combat it.

Never said it was proper communism. But communism goes against human nature for the most part.

It requires total honesty and humans just aren't honest, we're self serving. It's fine to imagine a utopia but to expect one to work is stupid.

Yes, but you've missed me other point. There are three problems with that.
1)Can you prove that humans are self serving and greedy?
2) If yes, can you prove that this is innate, and not a result of being brought up in a capitalist society?
3)If yes, can you explain why we should support a system that encourages dishonesty and greed, rather than a system that tries to work around it?

I'm also unclear why communism requires total honesty, but I'm more concerned with your argument about "communism wont work because of human nature" which is a talking point that gets repeated loads with very little justification.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The trouble is after a certain point(larger than a small city) those in charge live like kings and start taking resources for themselves. Kinda like what Unregulated Capitalism is doing now.

Unregulated capitalism doesn't exist right now except in Somalia.

Between lack of regulation and bad regulation the US is the very model of Unfettered capitalism.

 

[Bloodstain]

So? Why would it be a bad thing if she likes the communist idea? Jesus, communism isn't bad. China isn't real communism, nor was the UDSSR. Those are dictatorships disguised as communism.
Communism is highly humanistic.

I fail to see why someone should be bad if s/he doesn't support democracy. I don't support democracy, I am in favour of aristrocracy -- true aristrocracy, mind you. It literally means: "Reign of the best". The people with the most knowledge rule. That how Plato envisioned his system as well -- and B. F. Skinner created a modern version of this, called "Walden Two".
Am I "evil" now? I think not.

 

[Plazmatic]

The trouble is after a certain point(larger than a small city) those in charge live like kings and start taking resources for themselves. Kinda like what Unregulated Capitalism is doing now.

Unregulated capitalism doesn't exist right now except in Somalia.

I live under a conservative right wing government in Britain

You live in the 18th century? How the hell do you have Internet access? And where did you get your time machine?

America for example for its supposed hate for all things "Socialist" is a very Socialist society. Things like roads, government funded hospitals, military, police forces, fire fighters, teachers, public education, the VA, Medicare, and even the idea of elected officals, are all very very very "un-capitalist".

Not at all. Socialism in an American context refers to entitlement programs: medicare, medicaid, social security, and publicly funded education, but there's nothing "socialist" whatsoever about a government raising an army to protect its subjects or hiring police officers to enforce its laws. Public roads are also hardly "un-capitalist", as no private enterprise has ever bothered to build road networks and charge travelers for using them.

A truly Capitalist society, would be something akin to Corporate Anarchy, wars would be fought by privately funded armies between Corporations over assets.

That's called anarcho-capitalism.

Roads, education, and healthcare would be funded by your employer (or not in most cases).

Wrong. Roads fall into disrepair, while education and medicine are funded by their customers/clients, just like any other service.

libertarianism has a social policy that consists of not giving a toss about anyone except yourself, and agressively imposing religious doctrines on other people, it excludes the possibility of being called social in any way.

You apparently know absolutely jack shit about libertarianism. The REALITY is that libertarianism has a social policy of letting people live as they choose so long as they respect the rights of others to do the same, and not giving a toss about religion. There's a reason why so many libertarians are also atheists.

Public and communal sectors in government, if you believe in public sectors, your a socialist, you may be a communist, but you are CERTAINLY NOT a capitalist. A capitalist would be apposed to probably even the system of government itself, or at least any inclusion of it in the economic sector

Bullshit. Capitalists depend on government to protect their property rights.

Imagine what could be achieved if mankind was truly unified. An end to the pettiness of greed, the slaughters in the name of religion, the subjugation of Third World populations for the profit of Western corporations, the famine, the wars, the disease.

We could be a great people, we simply lack the light to show us the way

That sounds awfully familiar...

...because what you're describing requires pretty much stripping humans of their humanity. Personally, I have nothing against stripping humans of their humanity, but if we're going to do that, we can become something much cooler than mind-controlled ants.

Good. I hope the OP's friend is a Communist. Today's sick capitalist society needs more Communists. Here's to hoping she doesn't lapse into defending the status quo. Communism might not be the best political system but it's better than one based on the "free market."

Uh, no. A system based on the free market really is best; the problem is that we don't live in anything that remotely resembles a free market.

What evidence do we have that humans are imperfect

And even if they ARE inherently imperfect, surely it is better to have a system that alleviates the problems that greed and imperfection cause, rather than one that embraces them and encourages them to run rampant?

No. Capitalism harnesses the power of human greed to generate immense amounts of wealth while minimizing the damage that our imperfections cause. We start getting problems, however, when governments fuck with the system by tacking artificial rewards and punishments onto the natural ones, regulating small businesses into oblivion and bailing out big ones that need to be pruned.

YUP ITS ALL A SECRET GOVERNMENT PLOT. FEDERALISM HOPES TO DESTROY SMALL BUSINESS SO IT CAN DO, uh.. how about.. ALIEN RESEARCH. WOOO GO FREE MARKET CAPITALISM, FUCK PUBLIC WELFARE AND LONG LIVE THE CONFEDERACY.