Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

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powell86

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HG131 said:
powell86 said:
HG131 said:
No. It. Isn't. Pedophiles =/= child molesters. There are plenty of pedophiles who are good, normal people who would never harm children because they know better. It's the child molesters that give them a bad name. I for one thing the AVs might already be having an effect, as that escaped mod wrath for a whole long time.
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Pedophiles are people too, you know. It is actually akin to saying the same thing about homosexuals.
Erm... yes granted i agree that there are normal adults who are sexually attracted to children but are decent human beings who do not prey on children. pedophiles =/= definite child molesters.

However, the general public consensus:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Paedophiles (check the thesaurus)
http://www.google.com.sg/search?q=catch+a+paedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a


This to me is leaning towards political correctness gone wrong.
Shouldn't benefit of the doubt be given to him considering that most people do mean pedophiles = sexual predators? I honestly question how many so called "decent pedophiles" are hurt by his statement on this site? Alternatively, what are the chances of a pedophile advocacy group suing Escapist forum for allowing such "misguided" use of the word to take place? Next thing I noe we cannot use the word fag or ****** as part of a sentence anymore becuz homosexuals will be upset even though there are colloquial usages of such terms in our day to day conversation. And even when that happens, I'll feel less aggravated as LGBT groups ARE getting more and more mainstream and gaining in numbers.
That's not the problem. He can not like them. I nobody cares about that. However, he's forcing people to stay silent because he doesn't like them due to a bullshit stereotype. That's a civil rights issue.
I highly disagree that it's a civil rights issue. If not you will not have tv programs and newspapers using pedophiles and child molestation interchangeably.

Anyway I'm not here to argue on right or wrong of linking pedophiles and child molestation.
What I have issue is this:

We as a society (e.g. the world) has certain biases, certain likes and dislikes and certain ways of talking. There has been more or less a societal acceptable standards on how people converse which in this case I have clearly demonstrated that MOST PEOPLE uses pedos and child molestation interchangeably. Now whether that's right or not it's not my call. And when the Mods has started to decide that it is discriminatory the mods has hence started to impose a higher moral standard than what society has called for. This to me is unnecessary. So whats next then? Set a new standard for "dickishness"? Or deem sarcasm as detrimental? This is totally above board. You can disagree with the world, and the people ard it, but to penalize someone for having a view similar to most others in the world even though that may or may not be correct, I think that's too much.

*adding Small Waves to the discussion
Small Waves said:
 

IronicBeet

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Jun 27, 2009
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HG131 said:
powell86 said:
HG131 said:
No. It. Isn't. Pedophiles =/= child molesters. There are plenty of pedophiles who are good, normal people who would never harm children because they know better. It's the child molesters that give them a bad name. I for one thing the AVs might already be having an effect, as that escaped mod wrath for a whole long time.
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Pedophiles are people too, you know. It is actually akin to saying the same thing about homosexuals.
Erm... yes granted i agree that there are normal adults who are sexually attracted to children but are decent human beings who do not prey on children. pedophiles =/= definite child molesters.

However, the general public consensus:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Paedophiles (check the thesaurus)
http://www.google.com.sg/search?q=catch+a+paedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a


This to me is leaning towards political correctness gone wrong.
Shouldn't benefit of the doubt be given to him considering that most people do mean pedophiles = sexual predators? I honestly question how many so called "decent pedophiles" are hurt by his statement on this site? Alternatively, what are the chances of a pedophile advocacy group suing Escapist forum for allowing such "misguided" use of the word to take place? Next thing I noe we cannot use the word fag or ****** as part of a sentence anymore becuz homosexuals will be upset even though there are colloquial usages of such terms in our day to day conversation. And even when that happens, I'll feel less aggravated as LGBT groups ARE getting more and more mainstream and gaining in numbers.
That's not the problem. He can not like them. I nobody cares about that. However, he's forcing people to stay silent because he doesn't like them due to a bullshit stereotype. That's a civil rights issue.
I didn't know that saying something bad about a group of individuals was "forcing them to stay silent". If I say that Neo-Nazis are jerks, am I going to get suspended for "forcing them to stay silent"? Will I get in trouble if I make a joke that pokes fun at a group of people's views because it might hurt someone's feelings?

And no, I'm not directly comparing Nazis to pedophiles.
 

jboking

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Oct 10, 2008
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4fromK said:
Similarly, posts including, advocating , or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:
Piracy
Ad Blockers
Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography
Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks

I am uncomfortable with the use of advocating here. I can't advocate piracy, in any situation, not even playing games out of distribution, watching subversive films banned from theatres in your country, etc?
While some might view that as a justified reason for piracy, it does not defeat the fact that piracy is an illegal activity and therefore, shouldn't be advocated
Wait, how are ad blockers illegal or adult? thats fucking bullshit! I mean, I don't use adblockers because I want sites like the escapist to get revenue from me, but fuck banning advocacy of them.
You really answered your own question. It's because it fucks over the sites revenue stream. They don't want it to spread freely across the community and lead to nearly no one watching the adds, meaning the escapist isn't making any money.
I dunno, the vague wording, the banning of advocating illegal activities, and the banning of ad blocker discussion even though they are neither adult nor illegal makes me uncomfortable.
Banning of advocating illegal activities should honestly be a given. They're illegal, and the escapist doesn't want to get caught up in any issues if their members are promoting those things. Also, you can have discussion about ad blocker, but you can't advocate it's use, those are two very different things. Long story short, don't shout from the hills that you are blocking ads. I personally don't find the wording very vague, and I'm willing to bet that IFM would get you some wrath. Just my view on the whole thing.
 

Daedalus1942

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Jun 26, 2009
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HG131 said:
powell86 said:
HG131 said:
No. It. Isn't. Pedophiles =/= child molesters. There are plenty of pedophiles who are good, normal people who would never harm children because they know better. It's the child molesters that give them a bad name. I for one thing the AVs might already be having an effect, as that escaped mod wrath for a whole long time.
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Pedophiles are people too, you know. It is actually akin to saying the same thing about homosexuals.
Erm... yes granted i agree that there are normal adults who are sexually attracted to children but are decent human beings who do not prey on children. pedophiles =/= definite child molesters.

However, the general public consensus:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Paedophiles (check the thesaurus)
http://www.google.com.sg/search?q=catch+a+paedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a


This to me is leaning towards political correctness gone wrong.
Shouldn't benefit of the doubt be given to him considering that most people do mean pedophiles = sexual predators? I honestly question how many so called "decent pedophiles" are hurt by his statement on this site? Alternatively, what are the chances of a pedophile advocacy group suing Escapist forum for allowing such "misguided" use of the word to take place? Next thing I noe we cannot use the word fag or ****** as part of a sentence anymore becuz homosexuals will be upset even though there are colloquial usages of such terms in our day to day conversation. And even when that happens, I'll feel less aggravated as LGBT groups ARE getting more and more mainstream and gaining in numbers.
That's not the problem. He can not like them. I nobody cares about that. However, he's forcing people to stay silent because he doesn't like them due to a bullshit stereotype. That's a civil rights issue.
And he appears to be getting paedophiles mixed up with child molesters.
Hooray for personal predjudices, nice to see no-one's innocent til proven guilty!
-Tabs<3-
 

Leg End

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Oct 24, 2010
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HG131 said:
Basically, a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. A child molester is a pedophile, but a pedophile is not a child molester.
That is actually incorrect. Very few of them are actually Pedophiles. :/
 

powell86

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4fromK said:
honestly, the escapist forum's have kinda bored me for a while now anyway. Seems most of the people posting are still tithonking retards, but it has the added tense rule environment with the overuse of the banhammer. thank god I got over forums a while ago. Den of scum and villiany and all that.
Hi 4fromK,

sorry to quote you for my argument which has nothing to do with whatever you have said.

@HG131, @RedEyesBlackGamer, and @Small Waves

Look at this post, will you think it is warning worthy? he has used the phrase "tithonking" retards. Oh noes, RETARDS? Thats discriminatory isn't it too?

Check out Tropic Thunder's "retard" controversy.

So why am I certain that Mods won't give him a warning? Oh? Cuz using retard as a colloquial term is ok now? Just like how everybody uses the word retard?
 

Thumper17

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May 29, 2009
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New rules? Hmmm... I will check and edit.

EDIT:

Don't Be a Jerk
This rule trumps any other. Any loophole you think you've found in any other rule is covered by this one. If you make our forums a less pleasant place to be, we don't want you here and we have no problem revoking your account. Here are a couple of the things you should stay away from:

Flaming
Calling people names (or groups who may visit The Escapist), this includes calling others a troll
Trolling
Posting inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion
Offensive Posts
Please read what you wrote before you post it and think if anyone else could find it offensive
Rants
You can disagree with whatever you like but using large amounts of obscene language and CAPS is against our policies. We are sure you can find another way to voice your opinion without being aggressive, regardless of whom it is directed at.
Ban Jumping
If you create another account after being permanently banned, suspended or on probation, both of your accounts will be automatically banned.


This is fair enough.

Constructive criticism is welcomed; negativity for its own sake is not.

Which is why I've noticed anyone saying anything bad about Lisa Foiles is warned/banned/suspended. Even if it's well thought out. I dont mind her myself, but that seems fishy.

Further, discussions instructing or otherwise advocating the circumvention of The Escapist's advertisements, site sponsors, security mechanisms, media protections or similar facilities will not be tolerated.


Oh, so if we do anything to disrupt your money flow, you ban us? Nice priorities.


If we find you being slanderous with regard to any part of The Escapist, you will be penalized. This includes, but is not limited to communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give The Escapist, an individual creator, advertiser, site sponsor, product, group, government or nation a negative image. In short, if you say something you better be able to back it up with fact.


Uhm, alright. Thats fair, if a little excessive.


Regardless of what some of our content creators may say, do or provoke within their videos or articles, this does not give members the ability to act in the same way. They are entertainers and if they brought their language or flaming into the forums, they would be held accountable, just as any other forum member of The Escapist would be.

Right, so this site has double standards but has done their best to hide it.

Put Some Effort Into Your Communication
A well-made thread or a well-written comment engages its audience and facilitates discussion. We do ask that posters take just a little time to make their posts as readable as possible and keep their responses on topic. We also ask that you take a moment to check your spelling and grammar. Here are a couple things to avoid:

Low Content Posts
This could be anything from answering a question to posting LOL. These forums are used for discussion and low content posts halts discussion.
Pictures, Links and Videos
These will all be considered low content posts if not accompanied by a well thought out opinion, debate or reasoning. Pics, links and videos should help to strengthen your stance or opinion, not the other way around.
Topicless Thread Creation
Posting a thread without any discussion value, or with a deliberately misleading title, will get you penalized and your thread locked. This includes creating a poll without an accompanying discussion.



This is fair and sort of goes without saying.

Use Our Forums Appropriately
Our forums are a place to talk with like-minded people, not a place to advertise your blog, webpage, YouTube channel or commercial enterprise. Your profile has a place for such things, and that is where it should stay. If you fail to do this, you will automatically get a 1 month suspension.


Or you guys could make a section of the forums for people to post their own stuff. That might work too. Would make finding talent easier for you guys too.

Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community. An example of these are:

Well duh.

Piracy
Ad Blockers[/b]

What? Seriously? Just because we dont feel like sitting through the same ad a 30th time we get banned? Sweet.

Illegal Drugs in the United States
Illegal Acts in the United States
Pedophilia
Pornography
Sexist, Racist or Perverted Remarks


Uhm. All fair I guess, curious as to why Ad Blockers are on the same level as these things, seems like a greed/money thing to me. (I'm probs getting banned for this, I accepted that before I started writing.)

Posting Pics or Videos
Any pictures or videos that are vulgar, racist, hateful, spam or contain advertisements or nudity will be taken down immediately. When posting pictures or video, we request that you use spoiler tags:
LINK
Please see the section on "Put Some Effort Into Your Communication" for more information.


Fair enough.

Penalties
The Escapist forums are different from other forums on the internet. We try to maintain a system that balances intelligent discussion, debate and fun. The penalty system is meant to provide guidance to users - it allows users to better understand the rules and adjust to the differences from other Internet forums. The Escapist uses a strike system that grants you a maximum amount of 8 penalties to learn how to adhere to forum policies. Once a threshold has been broken, there is no way to gain strikes back. Here is the breakdown of all 8 stages:

Up to 4 Warnings (Green)
Warnings do not negatively impact your account but will stack against you for penalties.
Probation (Yellow)
This is your final warning. Once you receive probation, you are always on probation. All penalties after this will be suspensions, and all badges for good behavior will be negated.
3-day Suspension (Red)
You will be unable to post in the forums for three days, and all badges for good behavior will be negated.
2-week Suspension (Red)
You will be unable to post in the forums for two weeks, and all badges for good behavior will be negated.
Permanent Ban (Red)
Your posting rights on the site, as well as other methods of community participation, will be revoked permanently.

We do not enjoy banning people,


Well, you sure made it easy to do something you dont like doing. I'm also not clear on if you can get rid of warnings? If you can, then the system is strict but it can be dealt with. If not, then I don't like this. If someone made a stupid post three years ago, that should not affect them today, as they have changed, exactly like the site rules change.

but we will not hesitate to do so if we think that a person's removal will have an overall positive effect on the community. We also reserve the right to increase the punishment as we see fit, and any punishment above a warning will put the user at a minimum of the probation level. For example, advertisers get an automatic one month suspension, which means that any future infractions (once the suspension has ended) will result in a minimum of a suspension.

Fair enough, though it seems pretty stiff to crack down so hard on advertising when this site shoves it down our throats and then threatens us with bans if we circumvent it, which I'm willing to bet 85% of the site does.

You will be able to see your Forum Health Meter in your profile as a colored bar progression, using the colors listed in the penalties list above. Ban Histories, which the health meter loosely represents, are also taken into account when moderating.


Well, as you can see by the obscene amount of good behaviour badges I have, I'm not a trouble maker. So I should be in the green. (More likely yellow after this post. Even though this is constructive criticism and it's laid out in the rules on this very post that such criticism is ok.)


Appeal System
Moderators and staff are human and sometimes make mistakes. For this reason, we have an appeal system that members can utilize to plead their case in hopes of a reversal of a penalty. Once you have received a penalty, a message will be sent to you via private message. At this time, there is also a link to the appeal process. Please note, the appeal process works with your email account, not the private message system on The Escapist. If you choose to use the appeal system, please make sure to check your spam folder for an email.



This might as well not exist, I have a feeling people are going to complain that their appeals never get answered/are wrongfully denied, but what can you do.


Welp, yea, rules seem alright except for the obvious "Cut off our money or allow others to cut off our money and you''ll be reprimanded." intent and Ad Blockers being compared to raping children.
 

gamefreakbsp

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Sep 27, 2009
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I have never been a fan of the "Low content post" rule. I know it makes sense to have, but sometimes a low content post is completely fine in a situation. Zeus knows, I do it all the time.
 

Irony's Acolyte

Back from the Depths
Mar 9, 2010
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Z of the Na said:
Julianking93 said:
They are but it's not visible on profiles.

Of course, any mod would tell you that, but why exactly won't they show it? The answer should be pretty fucking obvious.
I'm either blind or ignorant.

If the answer to the latter half of your post is sitting right in front of my face, I don't see it.

[small]I received a warning in this thread for merely making a small joke, so I'm a bit afraid to say much more for fear of mod wrath.[/small]
It saddens me that people are going to have to start posting little exclaimers like that after every joke just so they don't receive mod wrath (which warnings now are). That kills so much good jokes and wit.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
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powell86 said:
4fromK said:
honestly, the escapist forum's have kinda bored me for a while now anyway. Seems most of the people posting are still tithonking retards, but it has the added tense rule environment with the overuse of the banhammer. thank god I got over forums a while ago. Den of scum and villiany and all that.
Hi 4fromK,

sorry to quote you for my argument which has nothing to do with whatever you have said.

@HG131, RedEyesBlackGamer, and Small Waves

Look at this post, will you think it is warning worthy? he has used the phrase "tithonking" retards. Oh noes, RETARDS? Thats discriminatory isn't it too?

Check out Tropic Thunder's "retard" controversy.

So why am I certain that Mods won't give him a warning? Oh? Cuz using retard as a colloquial term is ok now? Just like how everybody uses the word retard?
The two aren't even a fair comparison. I'm not continuing this. Partly because it could get ugly and I don't want a mark.

EDIT: I meant the words themselves. Not the people, people.
 

IronicBeet

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Jun 27, 2009
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HG131 said:
IronicBeet said:
HG131 said:
powell86 said:
HG131 said:
No. It. Isn't. Pedophiles =/= child molesters. There are plenty of pedophiles who are good, normal people who would never harm children because they know better. It's the child molesters that give them a bad name. I for one thing the AVs might already be having an effect, as that escaped mod wrath for a whole long time.
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
Pedophiles are people too, you know. It is actually akin to saying the same thing about homosexuals.
Erm... yes granted i agree that there are normal adults who are sexually attracted to children but are decent human beings who do not prey on children. pedophiles =/= definite child molesters.

However, the general public consensus:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Paedophiles (check the thesaurus)
http://www.google.com.sg/search?q=catch+a+paedophile&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a


This to me is leaning towards political correctness gone wrong.
Shouldn't benefit of the doubt be given to him considering that most people do mean pedophiles = sexual predators? I honestly question how many so called "decent pedophiles" are hurt by his statement on this site? Alternatively, what are the chances of a pedophile advocacy group suing Escapist forum for allowing such "misguided" use of the word to take place? Next thing I noe we cannot use the word fag or ****** as part of a sentence anymore becuz homosexuals will be upset even though there are colloquial usages of such terms in our day to day conversation. And even when that happens, I'll feel less aggravated as LGBT groups ARE getting more and more mainstream and gaining in numbers.
That's not the problem. He can not like them. I nobody cares about that. However, he's forcing people to stay silent because he doesn't like them due to a bullshit stereotype. That's a civil rights issue.
I didn't know that saying something bad about a group of individuals was "forcing them to stay silent". If I say that Neo-Nazis are jerks, am I going to get suspended for "forcing them to stay silent"? Will I get in trouble if I make a joke that pokes fun at a group of people's views because it might hurt someone's feelings?

And no, I'm not directly comparing Nazis to pedophiles.
That's different, as they actively harm people. Pedophiles are harming nobody. Child molesters are, but they didn't only target them. They targeted pedophiles in general. Basically, a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square. A child molester is a pedophile, but a pedophile is not a child molester.
You're missing the point I'm trying to make. If I say something bad about ANY group of people, whether it be Nazis, pedophiles, terrorists, gays, straights, Atheists, Agnostics, Creationists, or some obscure group of people that like to wrap themselves in toilet paper and throw fistfuls of honey at each other, no matter what the majority thinks of them, am I going to get a suspension for something that minor just because a LONG time ago I got in trouble for occasionally making jokes that apparently crossed the line? That just seems lazy on the mods' part. Instead of looking the post over and saying "Hey, this guy said something that he shouldn't have, but it wasn't that bad so I'll give him a week-long probation." what's happening is "This guy said something that offended people and/or I find this guy's post offensive myself, so judging by his FHM I'm just going to suspend him for two weeks rather than give him the warning/probation he deserves.".

And that whole "Forcing them to stay silent" thing still doesn't make sense.
 

4fromK

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Apr 15, 2009
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jboking said:
snipd
Banning of advocating illegal activities should honestly be a given. They're illegal, and the escapist doesn't want to get caught up in any issues if their members are promoting those things.
the escapist has had, on average of one a week, polls "should marijuana be legal" with thousands of people posting "hurr durr smoke weed errday brah" without getting into a mote of trouble. In fact, I don't think any forum ever has ever got into litigation over things its members have posted. 4chan is the exception, but it literally has hundreds of child porn threads in a single day sometimes.
No, the concern here is that things that are illegal should be able to be discussed. In order to have a balanced discussion, advocacy must be allowed. You shouldn't decide whether to smoke weed based solely on the college douchey "errday" viewpoint, but you certainly shouldn't just have the viewpoint of the writers of reefer madness presented. you take both viewpoints into consideration, figure that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. the same is true of every illegal activity; if we don't allow rational, balanced discussion, we may as well be in a police state.
 

IronicBeet

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Jun 27, 2009
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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
powell86 said:
4fromK said:
honestly, the escapist forum's have kinda bored me for a while now anyway. Seems most of the people posting are still tithonking retards, but it has the added tense rule environment with the overuse of the banhammer. thank god I got over forums a while ago. Den of scum and villiany and all that.
Hi 4fromK,

sorry to quote you for my argument which has nothing to do with whatever you have said.

@HG131, RedEyesBlackGamer, and Small Waves

Look at this post, will you think it is warning worthy? he has used the phrase "tithonking" retards. Oh noes, RETARDS? Thats discriminatory isn't it too?

Check out Tropic Thunder's "retard" controversy.

So why am I certain that Mods won't give him a warning? Oh? Cuz using retard as a colloquial term is ok now? Just like how everybody uses the word retard?
The two aren't even a fair comparison. I'm not continuing this. Partly because it could get ugly and I don't want a mark.
What, so you're saying that the mentally disabled aren't as worthy of defending as pedophiles? Because that's what I'm getting out of this.