Poll: New forum rules - Yay or Nay?

[Actual]

Besides for the forum health meters, which I agree, are unfair, my main problem is the pedophilia one, actually. Mainly because they're lumping innocent people with scumbags. Pedophilia =/= child molester. There are pedophiles on here, and one actually got a ban or suspension for saying that he was, until they realized that it wasn't actually against the rules, or against US law, so they had to unpunish them. There are plenty of people who are sexually attracted to kids but know better than to actually act on it. I'm not "condoning" it, I'm just saying that there's a difference between pedophile and child molester, despite what the fear-mongering media wants you to think. However, if the pedophilia thing just means CP, fine, but say that.

If we find you being slanderous with regard to any part of The Escapist, you will be penalized. This includes, but is not limited to communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give The Escapist, an individual creator, advertiser, site sponsor, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

This, especially the bolded part, disturbs me. Exactly how far are they going to go to make sure that the advertisers and governments aren't being "slandered"?

So wait? I am never going to go from yellow to green again? Or was that just poorly written?

No, that's what they're saying.

snip

Hey GeorgW, nice to talk to you again. I'm quoting you to get your attention. Now that I have it, I'm sure you've read the rest of my post, but I'd like you to clarify, what does the pedophilia thing mean? Does it mean that people like LegendaryGamer0 can expect a banhammer visit soon, or is it just anti-CP?

Exactly, thank you! So if I say "Apple you suck!" I get banned?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say "only if they're paying to advertise on here when you say it".

So the Review forum goes to Hell in a handbasket? Escapist is advertising Duke Nukem Forever. A random poster posts a review: "Duke Nukem SUCKED!" BAM! The Banhammer smites him!

No, not at all. If you say The Escapist is only previewing it because they are advertising, then you are going to be penalized, because that is slanderous.

How do we know if it's true or not? I find it difficult to take that mods can hand out warnings based on information THEY may know but common posters will NOT.

If you don't know it to be true don't state it as fact.

I don't know for sure that Batman beat up a midget for making him feel uncomfortable, even though I believe he did. So I can't say "Batman beat up a midget for making him feel uncomfortable." that would be slanderous (libellous).

I can say "I believe Batman beat up a midget for making him feel uncomfortable", because it's clearly a belief not a fact. To state it as fact would be lying because I don't know it's a fact.

Batman's a ****.

 

[Canid117]

I also got warned for a picture I posted that was NOT pornography. Yes, it was racy, but it was FAR from porn.

That happened to me once too. You know that duct tape demotivational with the girl in her underwear sitting in a chair? That is porn apparently.

Wow, how kinky. The picture I posted wasn't porn AT ALL. It was racy to be sure, but nowhere NEAR porn. Thus, I find it rather harsh.

Yeah it seems that there is a very conservative mod on the escapist somewhere. Or at least one who hates the sight of womens underwear.

Also are we not allowed to voice our displeasure at Captchas anymore?

 

[Spinwhiz]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

Ok, but what really gets me is I didn't get the four warnings and I'm already in the yellow zone. Under the old system I've received mod wrath, I think, 3 times, 1 probation, and 2 suspensions. I'm not going to pretend I didn't deserve them, 'cause I did. I let myself get carried away, what gets me is how does that translate into 5 warnings under the new system?
Edit: esp. since there's no chance for redemption.

Anyone with more than 2 probations (even suspensions) automatically received a yellow. Some people got lucky, having more than 2 suspensions and not getting a red automatically or even getting permabanned immediately. This would obviously be in bad taste, so we didn't do that. If you received 1 probation or less (warnings), you will be in the green. On a rare occasion where you had 4 or 5 warnings plus a probation, you will also be in the yellow probation category.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

How many people have a health meter that looks like this? (or worse)

I do...and now i am scared to post anything really....

Yeah i just saw my profile page and i have the same exact thing. But im a very restricted poster on the forums. 90% of the time i post my opinions on the news articles that get posted here and thats it.
Ive only got 2 warning. and the 1st one was ages ago and the 2nd one because i bumped one thread taht i made since it got pushed down due to alot of posts in other threads.

This permanent thig sounds indeed very harsh. And also im in the publishers club.... X_X its not like we pay much for the bonuses but hey i dont wanna get banned.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

Ah...that's a bit of a tl;dr thing. Anyway, the "forum health" meter is a good idea in theory, but there are some major problems with it:
1) Everybody should start with a clean slate, as anything else amounts to double punishment.
2) Warnings should disappear after a while (say a month/warning), while probation should stay. The current system is also quite problematic as the definition of "low content post" is quite subjective. I'd hate having to add random fillers to my posts just to avoid a warning.
3) Really, adblocks should not be in the same category as piracy, which in turn should be nowhere near as severe as child porn. Yes, you guys are a business, and I fully understand that you lose money when people use adblocks here. But unlike piracy/child porn, there's nothing illegal about them.
4) Kindly read #1 again. Hint, hint, hintity, hint...

 

[Spinwhiz]

As for seeing warnings and probations get erased, currently it's not going to happen. We are holding people accountable for their actions and we feel 8 strikes is more than enough. 99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions). If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

I do agree with you, however I do feel it's a little harsh to NEVER forgive people for even the tiniest offenses.

That may change in the future BUT for now, everyone should think it isn't going to happen.

 

[mr.mystery]

does it really matter? just dont post anything negative regardless of the rule system. you should be a good person with or without being told to

You say that but a quick glance at your profile shows me that you've gotten two warnings within 2 months. It's not really about being a good person, it's quite easy to get a warning on this site. I've seen many people get put on probation for what I would consider to be nothing more than a joke, a funny one too. And if you're on this site for a few years they could really add up with their whole permanent nature.

hahahha do you know what those warnings are for? its for leaving comments with only two words.

q.e.d. "that sux"

 

[Inglip]

99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions).

These numbers mean nothing when you consider how many people have created accounts and then never posted or posted very little.

If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

So people should be judged based on their past mistakes, not on their present ones.

Also, why are warnings held against you. That's unbelievably unfair.

 

[Nazz3]

test to see forum rules

Edit: they seem to have gone rougher. That "once you receive probation, you'll always be on probation", does it mean that you'll always have that probation thing on your posts forever? Sounds kinda harsh. Oh well, still better than GameStop, I referred to the japanese people as 'japs' (not in any racist or whatever way) and got a warning for that. Hell they even have an automatic filter for swear words...

 

[googleback]

Gah! anybody got a health kit i'm pretty unhealthy over here!

I have a feeling this is going to penalise people who are occasionally rule breakers (such as myself) I've only been done a few times for things that are just funny. like ,y first was when they announced the last delay to Duke Nukem i posted this image as a joke;

I got a warning for low content post. my fault i get it but i wasn't exactly assaulting another poster was I?

focus on those people who attack others is all i'd say. I'm not above the rules but I would appreciate the occasional "slip up" not being penned the same as an act of aggression or slander...

 

[CarlMin]

How many people have a health meter that looks like this? (or worse)

That's what mine looks like.

I have had a lot of suspensions....

That's strange. I've only had one!

 

[Canid117]

As for seeing warnings and probations get erased, currently it's not going to happen. We are holding people accountable for their actions and we feel 8 strikes is more than enough. 99.9% of the forum members don't have more than 2 warnings (if I'm not mistaken, 82% don't have any infractions). If people can't learn how to be respectful towards others and follow very simple rules, they won't be here for long. Everyone has a bad day but even off of the internet, if you do something stupid on that bad day, you are held accountable. The same goes for The Escapist forums.

I do agree with you, however I do feel it's a little harsh to NEVER forgive people for even the tiniest offenses.

That may change in the future BUT for now, everyone should think it isn't going to happen.

But we are such an idealistic bunch! And even if we shouldn't think it will change the negative reaction on this thread gives the impression that it will at least be a hot issue for a long time.

I also got warned for a picture I posted that was NOT pornography. Yes, it was racy, but it was FAR from porn.

That happened to me once too. You know that duct tape demotivational with the girl in her underwear sitting in a chair? That is porn apparently.

Wow, how kinky. The picture I posted wasn't porn AT ALL. It was racy to be sure, but nowhere NEAR porn. Thus, I find it rather harsh.

I guess the Escapist will continue to run articles and opinions lamenting how games are treated as cultural garbage while at the same time conforming to the usual corporate American terror of any kind of sexuality.

I like how your 666 post is the one that encourages sexuality on the escapist.

 

[Inglip]

Also, I'm already on my fifth strike, despite only having one warning and one probation.

I was suspended, but it was removed so I'm assuming it was stricken from my record.

 

[Qizx]

Testing this out.
EDIT: Well Since I don't know exactly what the changes are I'll just comment on what they are now.
I think a lot of them are simply common sense; Low Content posts (Don't you just hate someone posting O RLY?), Trolling, illegal activities yeah. The ban hopping thing seems a little odd but nyeh.
Only thing I don't really agree with is the anti rant. I think people should be able to rant all they please, providing they don't go off hating on a specific group of people (Swearing at those cursed 'fill in your least liked type of person' for_____ reason).

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I find it rather unfair that there's absolutely no way to clear your record. Everybody slips up now and then. I'm usually the first to advocate harsh punishment for infractions, but this is ridiculous. With harsh punishments should come rewards for good behavior. So if you've not committed any infractions for a certain amount of time, your 'forum heath meter' should go back down.

Nobody should be able to slip up 8 times and being given more chances. If anyone can't learn how to be respectful and follow our rules after what is pretty much 8 infractions, they shouldn't be here.

Not even if the infractions are upwards of 6 months to year apart? Maybe even 2 years or more? 'Cause clearly if that's the case, that's not a person who's out to cause trouble; that's a person who just got a little carried away one day.

That is why we give 7 chances. Don't think I'm trying to push you, or anyone else, off either. I completely understand where you are coming from as we've had this discussion internally before we could even think about launching the new penalty system and updated rules (which has been months now). We just feel that we do give chances, 8 of them, and those who can not hold it together for The Escapist to have to tell someone 8 times that isn't how you behave is more than enough.

Ok, but what really gets me is I didn't get the four warnings and I'm already in the yellow zone. Under the old system I've received mod wrath, I think, 3 times, 1 probation, and 2 suspensions. I'm not going to pretend I didn't deserve them, 'cause I did. I let myself get carried away, what gets me is how does that translate into 5 warnings under the new system?
Edit: esp. since there's no chance for redemption.

Anyone with more than 2 probations (even suspensions) automatically received a yellow. Some people got lucky, having more than 2 suspensions and not getting a red automatically or even getting permabanned immediately. This would obviously be in bad taste, so we didn't do that. If you received 1 probation or less (warnings), you will be in the green. On a rare occasion where you had 4 or 5 warnings plus a probation, you will also be in the yellow probation category.

Well I just don't think that's right. I've only been in trouble with the mods 3 times and I'm already out 5 out of my 8 chances.

 

[Spinwhiz]

Besides for the forum health meters, which I agree, are unfair, my main problem is the pedophilia one, actually. Mainly because they're lumping innocent people with scumbags. Pedophilia =/= child molester. There are pedophiles on here, and one actually got a ban or suspension for saying that he was, until they realized that it wasn't actually against the rules, or against US law, so they had to unpunish them. There are plenty of people who are sexually attracted to kids but know better than to actually act on it. I'm not "condoning" it, I'm just saying that there's a difference between pedophile and child molester, despite what the fear-mongering media wants you to think. However, if the pedophilia thing just means CP, fine, but say that.

If we find you being slanderous with regard to any part of The Escapist, you will be penalized. This includes, but is not limited to communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give The Escapist, an individual creator, advertiser, site sponsor, product, group, government or nation a negative image.

This, especially the bolded part, disturbs me. Exactly how far are they going to go to make sure that the advertisers and governments aren't being "slandered"?

So wait? I am never going to go from yellow to green again? Or was that just poorly written?

No, that's what they're saying.

snip

Hey GeorgW, nice to talk to you again. I'm quoting you to get your attention. Now that I have it, I'm sure you've read the rest of my post, but I'd like you to clarify, what does the pedophilia thing mean? Does it mean that people like LegendaryGamer0 can expect a banhammer visit soon, or is it just anti-CP?

Exactly, thank you! So if I say "Apple you suck!" I get banned?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say "only if they're paying to advertise on here when you say it".

So the Review forum goes to Hell in a handbasket? Escapist is advertising Duke Nukem Forever. A random poster posts a review: "Duke Nukem SUCKED!" BAM! The Banhammer smites him!

No, not at all. If you say The Escapist is only previewing it because they are advertising, then you are going to be penalized, because that is slanderous.

How do we know if it's true or not? I find it difficult to take that mods can hand out warnings based on information THEY may know but common posters will NOT.

Easy, be able to back up what you say with fact or ask others who make statements to back them up. It's how a true debate actually works.

I understand if someone is discussing it with mods but amongst ourselves, it's the Internet granted. In the heat of a debate, we don't really "back up" our sides really.

But you should, everyone should, otherwise you are commenting on a debate where someone just may be a good bullshitter. Now, slander is far worse than just stating something that may not be true because it has a negative impact. For example, if I said I don't like Dragon Age (which I do) because I think the control system sucks, so what? That would be my opinion and lots of people have opinions about games. Different strokes for different folks as they say. However, if I said Dragon Age sucks and The Escapist got paid to write a good review, THAT is slanderous. Not only would I not have the ability to back that up with fact because it's a lie, it also could potentially hurt the reputation of The Escapist.

So, shoot the stuff all you want and I encourage people to do so. Just remember, if you make an outlandish statement that we feel can hurt the reputation of The Escapist or any of its advertisers, creators, etc, we will ask anyone to back it up. If they can't, a penalty is waiting.