Poll: Oblivion

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TOGSolid

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Jul 15, 2008
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A bit you neglected (not many people seem to catch this in all honesty, so no fault of your own IMO) is the broken attribute system. It's fine and dandy that skills are tied to attributes. Logical idea and makes sense, until you start realising that they kinda gimped a bunch of potential classes via bad attribute assignments/not thinking things through entirely.
1.) Melee stealth characters. At first, when you build one you're like HOLY JESUS CHRIST THIS IS AWESOME. After all, sneaking up on an unsuspecting opponent and taking them out in one hit is always amazingly fun and gives you that feeling of utter badassery. However, when crossing from Morrowind to Oblivion, the developers had a case of the stupids and assigned small sword to strength.
Now, as you stated, in order to buff up a skill, you have to use it over and over and over, or buy it up. Which leads us to the gigantic logic pitfall here that since you're a stealth character you're trying to AVOID protracted and drawn out fights. Which means your small sword skill isn't raising as fast as it should. Which means that you'll very quickly find your backstabs to be about as effective as sneaking up and giving them a hug. Not to mention the other huge gaping problem where your strength isn't raising as fast as it should, which only exacerbates the problem.
Oh and did I mention that in a pure assassin build, you've only got small swords as your lone strength boosting skill? Whoopsy.
In Morrowind, this wasn't a problem at all in any way shape or form because in a moment of sheer brilliance, they made small swords a speed skill, which made stealth characters suddenly VERY viable and potent. Why in god's name did they change it?

Second problem lies with magic. Attempting to splash magic onto a mostly melee character (i.e. the bard build) will run you into another giant problem. Without one of the intelligence boosting magic skills, your mana pool will not increase. Much like the issues with stealth, as you go up in level, you'll find yourself completely unable to cast the higher powered spells. So when you walk up to the big bad monster, and attempt to charm it, or rout it or whatever, you'll basically be giving it a very pretty light show before it rips your face off.
Not to mention that without wisdom, your recharge rate will be complete wank leaving you good to go for only a couple of spells. You essentially need both an intelligence booster and a wisdom booster in order to effectively stay competitive in magic. So if you wanted to play a shiny, plate wearing paladin utilizing healing spells and rally/rout style spells, you're be totally fucked without destruction/conjuration.
How hard would it have been to have them all buff your mana pool/recharge rate to varying degrees of success? That way, said paladin character will at least still be able to pop out at least some of the higher end spells for their chosen profession. Sure they won't be dropping massive healing bombs like a dedicated caster would, but they'll still be able to manage just fine with a little bit of applied player skill, as any proper hybrid should.
 

ReepNeep

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Jan 21, 2008
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TOGSolid, you touch on something that has bothered me since I bought Morrowind more than five years ago. Except in very specific situations, in order for your character to be viable you need to do some powergaming/statgrinding. It gets to the point that unless you are repeatedly getting fours and fives in your stats at level time, the environment outpaces you and you end up weaker in relation to your enemies than you were a couple of levels ago.

You mention strength on a rogue-ish character. How about endurance on a spellcaster? Endurance is bound to skills that will generally only be taken by direct melee fighters, but the races that make good spellcasters start with a measly thirty endurance. Extra hit points at level time are based on current natural endurance so without grinding the endurance linked skills, even though you won't be using them in normal gameplay, your hitpoint total ends up so tiny that archers and other casters are one or two-shotting you. This only gets worse as you gain levels and get farther into the game.

I have a couple of ways to fix the issues by slightly altering the leveling mechanics but odds are, Bethesda doesn't even see a problem.
 

Aries_Split

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May 12, 2008
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Ivoryagent post=326.67970.636522 said:
Still, the "environment-levels-up-with-you" crap is just unnecessary.

Fucking trolls...
My solution was for every level I gain, the difficulty slider goes down one. If you start on default, that's a good way.
 

TOGSolid

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ReepNeep post=326.67970.636482 said:
TOGSolid, you touch on something that has bothered me since I bought Morrowind more than five years ago. Except in very specific situations, in order for your character to be viable you need to do some powergaming/statgrinding. It gets to the point that unless you are repeatedly getting fours and fives in your stats at level time, the environment outpaces you and you end up weaker in relation to your enemies than you were a couple of levels ago.

You mention strength on a rogue-ish character. How about endurance on a spellcaster? Endurance is bound to skills that will generally only be taken by direct melee fighters, but the races that make good spellcasters start with a measly thirty endurance. Extra hit points at level time are based on current natural endurance so without grinding the endurance linked skills, even though you won't be using them in normal gameplay, your hitpoint total ends up so tiny that archers and other casters are one or two-shotting you. This only gets worse as you gain levels and get farther into the game.

I have a couple of ways to fix the issues by slightly altering the leveling mechanics but odds are, Bethesda doesn't even see a problem.
I should have probably added a note that there are far more glaring issues with the attribute system than I listed, but yes you're right. I only dabbled in the magic system before shortly realizing how gimped it was, so I never played a mage character extensively.

Oh, and since I've got the excuse to rant some more:
How about the total gimping they did of magic items from Morrowind to Oblivion? Stripping away the daily recharging of your magic weapons was a horrifically bad idea and only served to create a huge time sink (and force you to carry around a veritable toolbox of magic weapons for when charges start to dry up) in Oblivion in the name of "OMG LOL SEE THERE'S MOAR GAEMPLEY AND DEPTH!!oneeleven1!"

*ahem*

So instead of transfering the system over and adding to it the crystals so you could have a neat toy to let you recharge on the fly (which would have been cool), they practically made it mandatory for you to go hunt these god damn things down. Forcing you to go wading hip deep through wraiths down in the amazingly repetitive dungeons to collect crystals.

Note the word wraiths. Monsters that can only be hurt by magic god damn weapons/spells.

*queue nuclear bomb level annoyance induced rage*
 

Atvomat_Nikonov

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Jul 2, 2008
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Spleeni post=326.67970.615721 said:
I liked your review; you pretty much covered all the points...but
A: I must go grammer-nazi on you; you really should go through it one more time.
B: It's actually easier to go through the game at level 1 due to the leveling system...you really should of mentioned that
C: Immersion, there is NONE of it. MENTION IT. NOW, FOOL!
You may think of me as crazy for this, but I got very immersed in Oblivion. I would come up with back stories and motifs for why my characters would do something. For example, I read a guide book which was full of racism against Khajiits(sp?) in leyawiin. Now since I like the khajiit race, I took it upon myself to create a new character to 'rid' the world of the writer of these guide books.
I made the khajiit the stereotypical murderer, and broke into the writers house and I murdered her. But no, I didn't stop there I also murdered her Sister and husband. Doing this, made me feel relieved that the dirty racist church going imperial was dead. Then this Khajiit became an anti-racist crusader, who would go from place to place murdering those who disliked his species.
Back on topic, although I don't agree entirely with the review, it is a good review nontheless.
 

ReepNeep

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Jan 21, 2008
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TOGSolid post=326.67970.636678 said:
I should have probably added a note that there are far more glaring issues with the attribute system than I listed, but yes you're right. I only dabbled in the magic system before shortly realizing how gimped it was, so I never played a mage character extensively.

Oh, and since I've got the excuse to rant some more:
How about the total gimping they did of magic items from Morrowind to Oblivion? Stripping away the daily recharging of your magic weapons was a horrifically bad idea and only served to create a huge time sink (and force you to carry around a veritable toolbox of magic weapons for when charges start to dry up) in Oblivion in the name of "OMG LOL SEE THERE'S MOAR GAEMPLEY AND DEPTH!!oneeleven1!"

*ahem*

So instead of transfering the system over and adding to it the crystals so you could have a neat toy to let you recharge on the fly (which would have been cool), they practically made it mandatory for you to go hunt these god damn things down. Forcing you to go wading hip deep through wraiths down in the amazingly repetitive dungeons to collect crystals.

Note the word wraiths. Monsters that can only be hurt by magic god damn weapons/spells.

*queue nuclear bomb level annoyance induced rage*
I never got a choppy character that far into the game, but I can see how the wraiths would be infuriating. This was really irritating even on my deathknight-ish character who had heavy destruction spells and used an enchanted mace and heavy armor. I eventually grabbed Azura's Star and snatched the soul of every fourth monster so I could keep 'The Heartgrinder' (An ebony mace with a steal stamina on hit enchantment which keeps your melee performance high while hampering theirs. It was pretty sweet.) charged without having to carry half my weight in soul gems or run back to town every ten minutes.

When you have to use an artifact class item that most players won't even find to enable (semi)practical use of magic weapons you have a serious design problem on your hands.
 

BlueMage

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Jan 22, 2008
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Good review.

Though, you failed to mention the amusement one can have by enchanting all your various pieces of armour with Chameleon. Shame shame shame.