Poll: Ohio mom jailed for sending kids to a better school district. Your thoughts?

[MoosieMann]

honestly, no i don't think it is justified, if you want to go to the school (or children to attend)you need to be in the district to pay for the books and supplies and teachers salaries that you/ child will be using. this would cause the school to have to pay for something that they shouldn't have to, making them lose money. this is messed up.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

So you only get as much education as you're willing to pay for? So that's where Cameron got the idea from.

That's pretty much how property tax funded education works in practice. It's stupid, it should be based off of a statewide budget appropriated to schools based on size.

Other interesting information about this is that the woman is a teacher's aide in her own school district.

this this this. my fucking high school had flipping awful funding even though we had the most kids and we had higher test scores than all the other schools in our district, which was bullshit. while schools out in hicktown would have charter busses and near unlimited funding because they only had one high school in the town.




OT:
legally shy broke the law, avoided tax payments basically

morally right, probably, yes, but that doesn't mean shit in near any nation where you break the law.

 

[dakorok]

If you want to send your children to a different school, one not funded by your taxes, you need to pay a tuition fee.
This woman didn't.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

So you only get as much education as you're willing to pay for? So that's where Cameron got the idea from.

That's pretty much how property tax funded education works in practice. It's stupid, it should be based off of a statewide budget appropriated to schools based on size.

Other interesting information about this is that the woman is a teacher's aide in her own school district.

Secondary Social Science Ed major here, and Dags90 here got the long and short of it on page one. What she did was illegal, with good reason -- forget for a minute that she falsified quite a few documents, which is a crime in itself, she was depriving the children who lived in the same district as hers the funds they would need to make their own schools better.

We have a really terrible funding system for schools in this country, where a district's funds come largely from property taxes. What this boils down to is schools in rich neighborhoods have a lot of money, because the homes in the area are more valuable, but kids in poor neighborhoods have poor funding, which can lead to terrible schools. We really need to revamp the system, so that individual schools don't get more money just because the parents of their students are richer. If school is going to be a great equalizer, it would help if students who go in disadvantaged don't get the additional handicap of an under-funded school.

 

[Jodah]

Read the rest of the thread and then come back. You will see your opinion is in the minority. When a law is made everyone is expected to follow it. If it is immoral and someone breaks it they will still be punished, as they should be. This may end up causing the law to be changed but this does not give one permission to break the law.

If the criteria for whether a law should be followed or not becomes morality then we will have anarchy. There are a great many people that think it is morally justified to kill abortion doctors. Would it be okay with you if nobody got punished for doing that?

As I (and many others in this thread) have said she was justified. However, she still broke the law whether you agree with it or not. That means she should be punished and anyone else who does the same thing should be punished until the law is changed or removed.

I'm probably going to do a terrible job of explaining this, but I guess I'll try.

My morality has no regard for laws, thus if it were up to me, I wouldn't punish her, which is probably why I don't want to be a judge or police officer, because I wouldn't feel comfortable doing my job. Of course I can't expect someone whose job is to enforce the law to not enforce it, so I can understand why she would be punished, but I still don't personally agree with it. When I think of problems and crimes, my focus isn't often how we should punish people and enforce the law, it's the factors that cause those problems.

And yes, I would be Ok with someone who murdered an abortion doctor to not be punished if that person's punishment serves no practical purpose other then to dish out some form of "justice" for an immoral act. That certainly doesn't mean I would be fine with nothing being done, someone just killed another human being. Ideally, I would want to address the issues that caused a person to murder instead of punishment. But that's often not feasible, so I would be in favor of putting a person in jail, but not in pursuit of punishing a wrongdoer, only in protecting people.

But my answers to these kinds of questions regarding law enforcement are always really fucking stupid, because with the way I think, I often focus on the bigger problems at hand that make people do certain things. Such as with the case with the mom, a deeply flawed and unfair education system being the general problem, and would instead rather focus on that. Which again, is why I'm not a police officer.

There is no correct, perfect solution here. The solution to problems like this won't come through law enforcement and punishment, those kinds of things only temporarily keep order. That's all. They do absolutely nothing to address the issues that caused the mom to commit the crime in the first place. Now, don't get me wrong, law enforcement has it's place, because it takes time to solve these deep rooted problems, and while we attempt to do that, we have to keep some sort of order. But that doesn't mean punishing her is morally justifiable, because she has already been done a great injustice by falling victim to a broken education system, and that is what truly needs to be addressed. The only problem is, it's easier to do something about an individual person breaking the law, then an extremely complicated set of issues in an institution.

I can respect that. Most of my family is very emotional in their decision making. I tend to be the oddball as I am very calculating and logical. I actually would like to be a judge eventually (I am a law student atm).

If this were simply a moral question I would agree that she shouldn't be punished but there are many other factors to consider. From a moral perspective she is completely justified. Problem is from a legal perspective she should be and laws are what keep our society working. Her reasons mitigate her actions but do not completely excuse them.

 

[SkyeNeko]

this is sad =( people should be able to send their kids to better schools if the local one isnt up to standard (assuming her kids deserve to go there, i say no if theyre the kind you find in ghetto public schools that dont care about education). then maybe the schools would step up their game!

 

[Scout Tactical]

I can't believe so many people believe it's okay to defraud state papers. This is a felony, just as bad as lying on your tax statement. In fact, it's exactly the same as that!

Notice the article said the others either admitted guilt or paid the back tuition. Only this woman fought. It would be an affront to justice if PR let the woman go free.

So what if one district is better? That's what America is about: competition. You shouldn't be able to get Verizon service for free if AT&T is your carrier, even if you're sure Verizon is better. It's totally illogical. If people don't pay the 'better' schools for their better education, they won't be good schools any more!

 

[Karma168]

So you only get as much education as you're willing to pay for? So that's where Cameron got the idea from.

Thank god for the socialist policies north of the border then. No way i'd be able to afford what cameron just pushed through.

OT: well in the UK we're constantly hearing about middle class families moving home to get into a better school, since working class people have no hope of doing this then deceit is her only option to get her kids in decent education. While it's illegal I can understand why she did it.

the law should either be changed to:

1. let you choose any school within city limits. schools have discretionary powers to decide who they want - but would have to give priority to pupils within a set radius of the school, with any extra spaces available to pupils from outside the catchment area.

2. you get to choose schools if you're in their catchment area and thats it. moving 1/2 a mile from one catchment area to another, buying a 2nd home in a better area (inside the same city) or falsifying papers are all illegal and disqualify you from applying to the school and face either a fine or jail time. this means that the system cannot be abused by the well off with only the poorer families suffering the consequences.

 

[DefunctTheory]

She did the right thing, the problem is that it was also illegal. I live in ohio, and out residency rules are shitty. There are some good schools, and there are some really really REALLY bad ones.

What needs to happen is that we need a law of Separation of School and State, and allow schools to compete for students, instead of this crap. But as long as the government runs schools, there are going to be severe issues with stupid asinine laws like this.

This is actually brilliant. I love it! Capitalism education!

No sarcasm at all, I seriously love this idea.

 

[godofallu]

this is sad =( people should be able to send their kids to better schools if the local one isnt up to standard (assuming her kids deserve to go there, i say no if theyre the kind you find in ghetto public schools that dont care about education). then maybe the schools would step up their game!

On the one hand I agree that this is a sad case.

On the other hand, the more people that leave the worse school the less funding it gets. Plus the better school quickly becomes crowded and under budgeted.

The problem here is that our schools suck, and our leadership is horrible. Our current system either gives too little or too much. The problem is that those that get too much simply waste the excess and claim they need more, while those that get too little claim they need more.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

Its just another case of being morally right while being lawfully wrong.

Precisely, doesn't anyone ever stop to think WHY we have laws? What's the point of enforcing something that hurts someone and helps no one. >_>

If you view it from the other side, doesn't it seem like they're trying to force her kids to go to a worse school?

 

[Baneat]

Another "are you a deontologist or a teleologist",,

seriously, in the end this comes to that, you will not conclude this because it's like asking what's better between the PS3 and Xbox

 

[Johnnyallstar]

She did the right thing, the problem is that it was also illegal. I live in ohio, and out residency rules are shitty. There are some good schools, and there are some really really REALLY bad ones.

What needs to happen is that we need a law of Separation of School and State, and allow schools to compete for students, instead of this crap. But as long as the government runs schools, there are going to be severe issues with stupid asinine laws like this.

This is actually brilliant. I love it! Capitalism education!

No sarcasm at all, I seriously love this idea.

I do too, but I'm not going to lie, it would have problems of it's own. There would still be under served communities, and there would be many places that simply couldn't afford to stay open for one reason or another. If government should have any involvement, I believe it should only be in the giving of money, and not have any regulating authority on what can and cannot be taught.

Also, I have some issues with teachers unions, but that's another story.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

As bad as the shcool system is, she is very justified.

 

[OceanRunner]

It was for a good cause, but when it comes to the law, showing leniency would result in others trying to exploit it for more selfish ends.

 

[Lazzi]

Lying about her residency? Ya, that is illegal for a number of reasons. Its just another case of being morally right while being lawfully wrong.

If only she lived in Cleveland, Ohio, they actually have a Voucher system her kids could use.

Eactly but Ill switch of Celeveland, Ohio for Miami-Dade county, Florida.

She was morally correct but what she did was illegal, not two ways about. I still dont understand why she didnt just move in with her father, then I would have been completely legal. either she would have divern her kids to school, or she would be driving fartehr to work.

Its similar the the whoel graffite issue. Sure its art but its still messing up another persons property, and ther for illegal.

 

[Shycte]

If she broke that law she should take the consequenses. But it shouldn't br illegal imo.

 

[FoolKiller]

Was she wrong to do it?
YES.

Should she have tried giving her kids the opportunity?
ABSOLUTELY.