You're not suggesting just because something's been around "for ever" it's actually good or liked, right?Ishal said:
Poll: Pacific Rim: not great (spoilers)
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No, I'm not. Perhaps I should have made that more clear. I'm not saying a Deus ex is good. It's not, its a signal or red flag for bad writing. What I am saying is it occurs to me that more people seem to be complaining about them recently. I know of at least two deus ex's in LOTR and I don't remember people complaining about them.Johnny Novgorod said:
I don't think that jaegar suddenly producing a sword is a deus ex machina.
ummm...
End of discussion...
Seriously, I dont care about character devolopment or anything, I want to see gaint mechs punching the fuck out of kaiju.
If the movie delivers on that, Im paying for the 3d version, and getting it on blueray.
End of discussion...
Seriously, I dont care about character devolopment or anything, I want to see gaint mechs punching the fuck out of kaiju.
If the movie delivers on that, Im paying for the 3d version, and getting it on blueray.
I think it is if you haven't initially established said jaeger had the ability to pull out a sword. Generally speaking, you're supposed to establish what a character can or can't do before the character actually does it (or does not). If you're halfway into a movie and "suddenly" a mecha pulls a sword out of hammerspace because it needs exactly that, I call that deus ex machina. I can probobably count even more deus ex's than you in LOTR - Aragorn showing up to save the hobbits, Arwen showing up to save the hobbits, Aragorn showing up to "save" Boromir, Gandalf showing up to storm Helm's Deep, the Eagles showing up TWICE, the Army of the Dead, etc... yes, they abuse the hell out of that, but it more or less goes with epic storytelling. Any epic poem or ballad is rich with "suddenlies", Chanson de Roland is made of Roland jumping in and saving the day, as is Odysseus prone to saving his ass. LOTR is grounded on those tales, so it gets a genre pass.Ishal said:
Loved it. Did exactly what it wanted to and del Toro was loving every minute of it. Hopefully we get more big budget kaiju movies.
Those Aussie accents are still awful. Last time I saw a decent one was the guy who was actually Australian in Django Unchained, cast next to Quentin's AWFUL attempt at what seemed to be like an Aussie accent.
Seriously though; one thing I'd fix in this movie is getting Australian actors as I don't think I've ever seen anyone get it right. It's like if someone tried to make an Australian accent after seeing the Australian episode of The Simpsons.
Hugh on NS2HD has a pretty exaggerated Australian accent (usually people that live on farms sound like that), but the rest of us sound more like Hugh Jackman (although even his is kind of pronounced).
It'd be like trying to use a NY accent for someone who's supposed to have a southern American accent; it'd just be terrible.
Those Aussie accents are still awful. Last time I saw a decent one was the guy who was actually Australian in Django Unchained, cast next to Quentin's AWFUL attempt at what seemed to be like an Aussie accent.
Seriously though; one thing I'd fix in this movie is getting Australian actors as I don't think I've ever seen anyone get it right. It's like if someone tried to make an Australian accent after seeing the Australian episode of The Simpsons.
Hugh on NS2HD has a pretty exaggerated Australian accent (usually people that live on farms sound like that), but the rest of us sound more like Hugh Jackman (although even his is kind of pronounced).
It'd be like trying to use a NY accent for someone who's supposed to have a southern American accent; it'd just be terrible.
in risk of using a cliched/neutral phrase, "take it for what it is" is in full effect for this movie. It isn't about the plot or the characters, its about giant fucking robots fighting giant fucking monsters. Plot and characters are still important, but less so than the giant robots/monsters. Hell, my greatest disappointment was that the russian and chinese mechs got only one, short battle scene.
Probably the scene that was most evident of this was the one with the newton balls and the one where one of the Jagers stopped just short of killing a seagull, only for it to fly off. If you think about it, those make no fucking sense at all. The seagull should have flown away well before its poll got hit and the newton balls should have been moving from the entire building getting destroyed, but that doesn't matter because its cool as fuck and funny to boot.
Also, the reveal of the one flying Kaiju was almost perfectly executed. I remember audibly saying "Oh. Well. Shit." and just being in awe of it.
Probably the scene that was most evident of this was the one with the newton balls and the one where one of the Jagers stopped just short of killing a seagull, only for it to fly off. If you think about it, those make no fucking sense at all. The seagull should have flown away well before its poll got hit and the newton balls should have been moving from the entire building getting destroyed, but that doesn't matter because its cool as fuck and funny to boot.
Also, the reveal of the one flying Kaiju was almost perfectly executed. I remember audibly saying "Oh. Well. Shit." and just being in awe of it.
This is such poor reasoning in my eyes. Just because a premise is simple and straight forward doesn't mean it can't be executed with finesse and skill. Saying "how dare you expect one part of the film's team to do their jobs well because the trailer didn't indicate much one way or the other" just sounds silly. What's more, you're making a strawman, as I never mentioned sweeping epic. I explicitly stated I like the cliche archetypes in play. I just wanted them done BETTER, and having them done better simply wouldn't have required less attention or care be put into the action. If anything it would have just made the audience more invested. Seriously, I don't see either of your comments as making very good cases against my position.Lunar Templar said:
YES, THIS, SO MUCH THIS! Not every movie has to be a subversive, completely original masterpiece. So long as the movie does what it sets out and does it well, which Pac Rim did, you have a good movie. We don't want every game that comes out to "innovate"; why should we treat films differently? :\[Kira Must Die said:
Saw it on Friday and I loved it. From the OP, it looks like you wanted an origin story, which is what was rushed through at the start. The film takes place 13 years after the initial Kaiju attack and the characterization reflected that. The relationships in the film were done perfectly, there was no romance subplot, as is usual for movies like this, it was straight up here are the giant alien monsters and here are Earth's defense.
A lot of the things people are saying weren't explained or were briefly looked over, like the drifting, didn't need to be explained. As I said, we are 13 years into the war at this point, if someone went into depth about what the drift was to another person working with the jaegers, they'd probably get a "I've been working on this for 13 years, I know, why are you saying that" look. Things don't need to be explained because we are meant to take it as "this is how it is and everyone is used to it".
A lot of the things people are saying weren't explained or were briefly looked over, like the drifting, didn't need to be explained. As I said, we are 13 years into the war at this point, if someone went into depth about what the drift was to another person working with the jaegers, they'd probably get a "I've been working on this for 13 years, I know, why are you saying that" look. Things don't need to be explained because we are meant to take it as "this is how it is and everyone is used to it".
I'm sure it's been said, but the exposition and breaks between action were almost certainly intended to feel the way they did. If you go and watch any giant monster movie, huge sections are dedicated to ridiculous plot building and exposition. They're a staple of the genre from Godzilla and Gamera to King Kong and The Giant Claw. I personally had a giant smile on my face the whole time as I let nostalgia and awesome set pieces wash over me.
Could not agree with this sentiment more. The action scenes were entertaining, and Idris Elba was highly enjoyable, but there wasn't a single moment of tension in the film, or even an iota of intelligence in the screenplay. The worst thing was that the potential for a truly great movie was there, but it feels like they just called it quits after settling for a slightly above average stupid action film.NoeL said:
Honestly, the movie could have used more scenes of punching monsters in the face, because at least there they could have explored the consequences of Mako and Blandy Mcblanderson's minds not syncing properly in a combat situation, and have had them need to overcome them. Could also have presented the chance for a fight scene where the Russians and Chinese crew could have lasted more than five seconds.
And above all, it would have been nice to have at least a single scene where the ending couldn't be predicted from the opening frames. The Kaiju designs were fun, and the other Jaegers were fun but criminally under-utilised, but the movie was just so lifeless and by-the-books. It was really sad, the one word I did not want to associate with Pacific Rim was "boring", but that's what I was left with.
It was the bastard child of Top Gun and Neon Genesis Evangelion (stealing everything from Ice Man to "Dance Like You Want To Win").axlryder said:
....
... I fucking loved it. ^^ I'm seeing it again next week when it heads to the cheaper theaters.
It is entirely possible to have a formulaic plot and characters and still be a good movie. Indeed, Pacific Rim isn't bad, just disappointingly average. However, the reason why I want films like this to be a bit different and innovative is very simple:BreakfastMan said:
I was bored.
Seriously. Bored. That was one word I did not expect to associate with Pacific Rim. There is so much potential in the film that never gets realised in favour of just throwing more incredibly predictable (and at times, poorly acted) scenes at the audience. Scenes that, from the moment they begin, you know how they're going to end. If they weren't going to bother trying with the non-action scenes, they should have thrown in more action (in fact, thanks to the neural links, more action scenes could have been a really good way to carry across characterisation). It was boring, tedious busy-work that did nothing but pad the length of the film and reduce my enjoyment of the premise.
So yes, you can have a formulaic plot and characters and still be a good movie. I agree with that idea completely. However, Pacific Rim is not an example of this (for me, at least).
your 'position' means little to nothing to me, as does your desire to get into an argument over a 'popcorn movie' because what you saw is what you got, I posted my opinion on the matter, and whether you like or not is really your problem.axlryder said:
What impressed me the most was that the movie had a reason to set the entire stage on western coast of America, and it chose to go with the eastern Chinese option. General presence of non-American casts and settings throughout the movie was surprisingly refreshing and a lot more enjoyable than watching New York City get destroyed again.
But the violence? Loved it. Ate that shit up. When Mako and Raleigh walked up to the kaiju in Hong Kong while dragging a goddamned freight ship, while some strong bassline beat along, I could've died there and considered my life a success. (Then later they pull out a freaking sword as some last ditch effort. Freight train < Sword, gotta remember that). Cinematagraphy could've been less shaky and it would've made the action a lot better.
Liked the brainy supporting cast, Newt and Herman. Pretty cool guys, I was looking forward to seeing Newt talking to Hellboy more than I was anticipating the movie to get to the punching. Good job to the movie for making me enjoy characters, bad job to the movie for having me consider three minutes of dialogue a lot more engaging than an hour of holograms and military jargon.
This point here pissed me off to no end. I didn't mind the story, janked logic, and the cookie-cutter archetypes of main characters and their backstory. I got upset when a movie that is all about "robot→s← fighting monsters" turns into "one robot fighting monsters". It's not even like the movie gimped us out and only showed one or two robots--the other jaeger crews were already pissing there, all rendered and filled with badass-looking actors. Then the movie kills them literally twenty seconds after each speak their three lines of dialogue.Zhukov said:
But the violence? Loved it. Ate that shit up. When Mako and Raleigh walked up to the kaiju in Hong Kong while dragging a goddamned freight ship, while some strong bassline beat along, I could've died there and considered my life a success. (Then later they pull out a freaking sword as some last ditch effort. Freight train < Sword, gotta remember that). Cinematagraphy could've been less shaky and it would've made the action a lot better.
Liked the brainy supporting cast, Newt and Herman. Pretty cool guys, I was looking forward to seeing Newt talking to Hellboy more than I was anticipating the movie to get to the punching. Good job to the movie for making me enjoy characters, bad job to the movie for having me consider three minutes of dialogue a lot more engaging than an hour of holograms and military jargon.
I thought this movie was amazing. Sure, the characters were all very flat and one-note and archetypal, but that's kind of the whole point, that's what Del Toro was going for. I didn't care for the main character (Raleigh) very much, but I thought the rest of them were wonderfully done. I disagree about the plot, I thought the storytelling and pacing was excellent, nothing felt rushed or shoehorned or slow or disjointed at all and it all flowed extremely well. I loved the action scenes, I didn't think they felt video gamey at all. And yeah, it was predictable, and yeah, again, that was kind of the entire point. That's like complaining that Avengers was predictable. Not every movie needs twists and turns, films can be good for other reasons too.
I don't know what people are complaining about. When I went into this movie, I expected a love letter to the giant robot/giant monster fighting genre, and I expected it to be fun and goofy because that's what this genre has always been. I got exactly what I expected, and it was beautiful. I couldn't recommend this film more.
Also, my hope is that the success of Pacific Rim might lead to Del Toro's take on At The Mountains Of Madness actually being made. Because that would be a dream come true for me.
I don't know what people are complaining about. When I went into this movie, I expected a love letter to the giant robot/giant monster fighting genre, and I expected it to be fun and goofy because that's what this genre has always been. I got exactly what I expected, and it was beautiful. I couldn't recommend this film more.
Also, my hope is that the success of Pacific Rim might lead to Del Toro's take on At The Mountains Of Madness actually being made. Because that would be a dream come true for me.
It was alright I guess but I still expected much more from a talented filmmaker like Del Toro.
It certaintly wasn't bad and I'd still encourage anyone who asked my opinion to go see it but for me it was just so terribly ordinary. I can appreciate peoples admiration for a film with no pretenses or overt "message" so to speak but that dosen't excuse it from being boring.
I have a feeling that my own overblown expectations may be largely to blame for this thanks to the bombastic hype this film generated and the belief some people have enthusiastically spread(MovieBob anyone?) that it is supposed some kind of savior of cinema freeing us from the tyranny of endless sequels and reboots. I honestly don't feel that attitude really helped much.
It certaintly wasn't bad and I'd still encourage anyone who asked my opinion to go see it but for me it was just so terribly ordinary. I can appreciate peoples admiration for a film with no pretenses or overt "message" so to speak but that dosen't excuse it from being boring.
I have a feeling that my own overblown expectations may be largely to blame for this thanks to the bombastic hype this film generated and the belief some people have enthusiastically spread(MovieBob anyone?) that it is supposed some kind of savior of cinema freeing us from the tyranny of endless sequels and reboots. I honestly don't feel that attitude really helped much.
I fucking loved it. Giant fuck ass robots punching and cutting monsters to death. Pretty good. On a side note, why do people break their own polls by putting in useless answers? Don't you want to know what people think about it, if they agree or not? "potato" isn't really an answer, its more of a stupid choice..