Poll: Piracy. Good, or bad?

[CAPPINJACK]

I chose "other".

I make my living writing software. So I understand the importance of legally protecting my work (or more accurately, the work of my company). However I don't believe anyone should get jail time for piracy, nor do I believe that a large company that takes in millions in profits every year should be allowed to ruin someone financially for the rest of their days (of course when I say "someone", I mean someone who is not profiting monetarily from the work). I also believe the current copyright restrictions in North America are a fucking joke and last way too long.

For example I see a difference between little Joe in his bedroom pirating my latest piece of crap for his own use and a company pirating my stuff to gain profit. With individual piracy I see it like this: If Joe buys it after, then so much the better. If he does not, then there's a 50/50 chance he would never have bought it (and those odds go up in light of larger costs for software). But. And there's always a BUT. If a COMPANY pirates software, then they're no better than if little Joe pirated my crap and SOLD it. Because they're profiting directly off of my stuff. Obviously, this is a fine line. It could be said little Joe will learn how to do something with my software and thus gain skills that could gain him employment and profit from my work indirectly. But I think that's just weakly reaching as it could be said that he'll gain employment and BUY the software. In this case, I'm like Joe, this is how I learned and I have long since bought my stuff, but when I was younger I sure didn't and I've since cleaned up my act. But I digress... a lot... I certainly don't condone individual piracy, but I know I can't even slow it down, so I choose to live with it and hope that the people involved will have their conscience get the better of them. Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but it worked on me, so it certainly can work on others. And if it doesn't, then I don't see the need to destroy those people for it. There are far more serious crimes going on out there.

As for companies... I've seen companies who pirate their software. This disgusts me. You're pulling money (often times more than enough to buy the licenses) in and you're pirating the software? For example, one company I know of used to pirate their operating systems, Microsoft office, etc... That is until I came in and made them get licenses for their stuff (yes, I'm a hero I know). This company pulled in a HUGE chunk of change every year. They could easily afford the licenses. But I told them that while they could easily buy the licenses, they certainly couldn't hire enough legal muscle to take on Microsoft in a copyright infringement case. Basically, if you can afford it, you BUY it. If you can't then you have to make do with what you can afford. This could certainly apply to an individual, but again, typically the individual is not profiting from the work and companies tend to have multiple computers with multiple licenses. So there's a big difference.

Well the swashbuckling, rum chugging, high seas piracy would be too fun for me to pass up

Funnily enough my brother and I were discussing this very form of piracy this evening. He's in the navy and is trying to get put on active duty to go and help deal with those guys.

 

[Arcticflame]

It entirely depends on the circumstance --> other.

 

[Bendon]

I download games if I already have them on the console. I'm not paying 60$ just to see if a game will run properly and get no help from tech support if it doesn't.

I pay for games I don't have on the console, like TF2, Age of Conan etc...

Movies I'll admit are 50/50. I rent newer ones, but I favor downloading older ones to avoid having to find them somewhere.

Music is a different thing all together...
I know to some, no amount of explanation will take them beyond thinking "das jus an excuce, ur a feef" but hear me out.

Bands make a lot of money through touring and merchandise and radio etc. No video will properly convey the experience of a great concert. They can make money in many other ways aside from CD sales.
I also strongly believe (as a musician) that real musicians do it for the music. If you're sad that you might have a slightly less absurd amount of money for playing your guitar, you're missing the point.

My take on the whole thing is that the media industry should be adapting instead of fighting. Digital downloads for albums/movies would take a lot of costs out of packaging and shipping.

Downloading music has led to a shite mainstream music scene, usually the only people who buy alot of albums now are 12 year olds girls

Actually, they cater to kids and teens because they have so much expendable income. The mainstream sucks for many reasons aside from that though. It basically makes the most money with the least effort.

Someone must be listening to it though

 

[Motti]

I don't see how sharing files over the internet is drastically different from lending a friend a CD so they can rip it, except you're lending it to a lot of people at once.

Apparently lending CDs, Games, Movies etc is illeagal anyways. Nothing anybody can do about it though.

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

Those damned pirates....with the stealing and the looting and the consumption of rum....they all sicken me...

Oh, you meant modern pirates....yeah, they are not nice people.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

By the fact that the legal system says it is not theft.

Your argument runs much like thus:

"A gun is designed to kill something. How is firing a gun near people not attempted murder!"

My definition of theft is "taking something not freely given without payment, promise of payment, or in exchange for a service". If the legal system disagrees, so be it; at that point it's simply a matter of semantics and picking which word you prefer.

You are making use of something that you did not pay for and put no work into. It's the height of idiocy to call that a legitimate transaction. I don't care if you would never pay for it, nor if you only use it once or twice. You are still utilizing something someone else made for the purpose of being paid, and not paying them for it.

I'm sorry, but I must point out that your definition has no relevance to the real world. In the real world, piracy is a seperate offence, and treating it the same as theft is both absurd and impractical.

Let us take an accounting view of this. In it's coloumn of costs, a music store will have an entry for products lost to theft. That is an example of them losing money, because someone has forcibly taken something.

However, a music store is not permitted to cite 'sales lost to piracy' as a cost, simply because A) It is undefinable, and B) Nothing material has actually been stolen. The company has not lost anything it already had, merely something it felt it might or might not have been entitled to. And frankly, with the price of music in modern times, my sympathy for them is wholly nonextant.

Secondly, your definition would lead to roughly one third of the population of the civilised world being housed in prison, which is an absurdity so great that I fail to find it even remotely amusing.

 

[Agayek]

I'm sorry, but I must point out that your definition has no relevance to the real world. In the real world, piracy is a seperate offence, and treating it the same as theft is both absurd and impractical.

I've no idea how the legal system regards the whole matter, and I don't particularly care. If they want to overcomplicate things, so be it.

Let us take an accounting view of this. In it's coloumn of costs, a music store will have an entry for products lost to theft. That is an example of them losing money, because someone has forcibly taken something.

However, a music store is not permitted to cite 'sales lost to piracy' as a cost, simply because A) It is undefinable, and B) Nothing material has actually been stolen. The company has not lost anything it already had, merely something it felt it might or might not have been entitled to. And frankly, with the price of music in modern times, my sympathy for them is wholly nonextant.

Music stores do not factor into piracy, artists or record labels do. You aren't taking anything, I will give you that, but you are using something not meant to be free without paying for it. I see that as theft. If the legal system disagrees, so be it, but that's what I believe.

It's not about anyone losing money, I don't give 2 shits about that. My problem lies in the principle of taking something that is not given.

Secondly, your definition would lead to roughly one third of the population of the civilised world being housed in prison, which is an absurdity so great that I fail to find it even remotely amusing.

Anyone that takes something not freely given should be punished. Does that mean jail time? Maybe, I'd say it depends on the severity, but there should be a punishment in place for taking or using anything that is not freely given.

 

[Trivun]

Not serious, but a crime nonetheless. I don't approve of it in general, though I'll admit I'm a bit of a hypocrite there since I have downloaded music for free in the past.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

What do you think?

Did you ever downloaded a game/movie?

And should "pirates" be punished?

My opinion: Think of it this way: ( i allready mentioned this in another thread)

Lets say you are a box salesman ( developer). I come to your store and buy your box. Then, I take it home, and start making exact copies of that box.

Later i start giving them away for free

What's wrong with that?

Please post your opinion.

I can see what you mean but boxes are rather too bland for an example. Nevertheless I shall try to word my opinion.
Really it's plagiarism, i.e. passing off someone elses work as your own. If you're copying his design exactly then it isn't fair on him.

 

[CNKFan]

I thought this thread was for REAL piracy you know with boats, guns, and murder. Anyway I could care less for two reasons; 1. I don't know how to do it, and 2. I'm not famous so I don't miss the .25 US royalties from MP3 sales

 

[Zombie_Fish]

Here is a good idea: MAKE EVERYTHING LESS EXPENSIVE - problem solved.

Here here!

Indeed. The most pirated things are usually 60$+

What really annoys me as well are that a major music album you could sell on CD for about £1 and still make a profit. So where does the rest of the money go?

This video shows my opinion though better than words can express. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIuR5TNyL8Y]

 

[dwightsteel]

It's not stealing, downloading music/games/movies is a copyright violation. Stealing implies that something is lost, which doesn't happen when you copy software. Publishers say they're losing money, but all they're actually losing is money they never had. They see every download as someone that would have bought the game, ignoring the fact that most people would never pay for the product.

One of the many definitions for the word "steal" in Websters: " to take or appropriate without right". You can try to slice it anyway you like, when you download things without the consent of the proprietor, you've stolen it. You were meant to pay for it, but you didn't. Just because you think your excuse is valid doesn't lessen the fact. It's like a person stealing food to feed their family. Was their excuse a valid one? I would contend so. Is it still stealing? Absolutely. Mind you, I can promise you, your excuse for stealing music, movies and/or software is nowhere near as good.

Companies called it piracy. That's like if I called you stupid, and then didn't listen to your argument because "You're called stupid." Companies wanted it to sound bad, so they called it piracy.

And there's so many ways we can look at it.
- What if you already bought it second-handed, and it didn't work like it should have? Should you have to find ANOTHER person to buy it from, knowing you have to waste money on something you already spent money on?
- What if you lost your disc?
- What if your console broke, and you want to play the games you had on a different system?

You can say it is "stealing", but even stealing can be justified.

As I've just pointed out, there are justifiable reasons for stealing. Not one of the reasons you've just mentioned is one of them. These are material products that we can live without. This isn't about being just or even reasonable. We do it because we are an over-indulgent society who found a loophole for not paying for crap.

You guys can say "it's not stealing, because I never would have bought it anyway," with as much fervor as you want, but the fact of the matter is that if these forms of piracy didn't exist, you'd either rent or break down and buy. And if you didn't, then yeah, the company doesn't gain anything, but that would have been THEIR fault. By taking it through illegal means, their lack of gain becomes YOUR fault. And I dare you to try to prove in court that had if you didn't have access to the free download, you wouldn't have made the purchase.

As I said in my first post, I'm no less guilty then anyone on here defending piracy. But I'm not deluding myself with excuses as to validate my behavior. I know that I shouldn't be doing it, but I do anyway. It's easy, I'm cheap, and I can sleep at night knowing that a wealthy record producer/movie studio/game developer can afford to sit on the loss.