Poll: Piracy or Used Games - Which is worse?

[Twilight_guy]

At least used game profit the developer at least once. Piracy is a total loss. Additionally some always buy used so the developer never even had a chance to get money for a new game from them. Piracy is worst then Used.

 

[Crash486]

So I was reading about Zenoclash and their struggle against piracy. We all know its pretty rampant, and it really does hit the pockets of the smaller developers. However, used games and piracy both result in no sales for the developer. So which is worse, piracy or used game sales?

Personally, I'm guilty of both. I dont like pirating games - I love holding a game box, the smell of freshly printed manual and the guarantee of online play and patches. However, used games unfortunately make up a percentage of my games collection. Personally, I believe that piracy is worse than used game sales.

Whats your opinion escapist?

P.S. Please dont discuss anything concerning piracy that is likely to result in a ban.

Piracy, and I'll tell you why.

Used game sales might not turn a direct profit for the developer, but they do turn a profit for the distributor. Since the distributor is an important link in the way of game sales, they play an important role in keeping those game developers afloat, and thus drive the gaming industry as a whole, therefore used game sales indirectly benefit the developers and they are not bad at all.

Also, the amount of used games sold directly influences the number of new copies which are purchased from the distributor. Doesn't matter if a game is sold as used or new, the overall popularity of the game is what decides the number of copies stocked in the store.

I'm not even sure how this is a valid question. You're literally asking, which is better stealing or not stealing. I'm going to assume the people who have voted used game sales or equally bad are either high or trolling.

 

[zahr]

The problem with piracy is that it is the only way for a consumer to have any sort of protection from the game companies. Since there is no accountability for shitty games, piracy will prevail.

This. A thousand times this. Stealing games is bad, but the advent of next-gen and the disappearance of quality assurance really leaves us no choice - we don't like piracy, yet it is vital as a tool to find out if a game is worth purchasing.

 

[Ben Legend]

Piracy is the greater of the two evils, but i suppose it can be quite useful if used correctly.

For instance, i've downloaded a game illegally just to test it out, when the developers have not release a demo and i don't want to go what reviewers and the developer rate the game. Once i'm done with the demo and not satisfied i'll delete it and be done with it, or go out and buy it.

I've also downloaded games that I intend to buy, for instance I donloaded Red Alert 3 for pc to play, knowing fall well i would purchase it on the xbox on its release date.

Personally i don't trust second hand games being sold on, i've had second hand games from gamestation which have either: had the manual missing, the game not working. And i'm not really a fan of how i can trade in a pc game and get 99p but they can then go to sell it on for £10.

 

[Blanks]

Used games aren't illegal... at least not in canada, not sure about anywhere else.
although developers, etc. don't get money for them.

 

[Dys]

In the eyes of a developer they are the same thing. If you buy a secondhand game from a market there is no profit going to the developer, if you buy a pirated game again there is no profit going to the developer. You could argue that if there were less pirated games the supply of second hand games would dry up, but even if it did I doubt most people who buy secondhand games would be willing to fork out an extra $AU80+.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

The day used games selling becomes illegal is the day I lead a revolt against every major games developer. If you're going to outlaw that, might as well outlaw ALL USED SALES OF ANYTHING, EVER. The same rules apply in either situation (creators not making money.)

When somebody sells a used game, somebody ELSE bought that game new. The devs already MADE their 1 sale from that game. If they want more people to buy new games, they can lower their prices. I bought KoF: '98 Ultimate Match brand new for $20, but I wouldn't have paid $60 for it. SNK understands this, EA does not.

 

[Crash486]

I don't like both

both of them hurt the gaming industry as a whole

That's not really true, as the distributor is part of the gaming industry. Money going to the distributor is better than money going to no one.

Used game sales really only hurt one person, and that is the consumer.

Wait, there's a problem with used games?

Consider this possibility:

One person buys a game new (the publisher/developer gets some money). After finishing it, he sells it back to the store.

10-20 other people proceed to over a period of time buy, finish and sell back that same copy of the game. None of the money from these sales goes to the publisher/developer.

It goes to the store that sells the games, instead. Does that happen in significant enough amounts to harm the developer? (I guess I could ask the same about piracy, but that's a little more directly harmful)

It does happen in large amounts, but I wouldn't say its really "harmful" to the developer.

Used game sales are actually beneficial to the gaming industry as a whole because they turn a profit for the distributor. This both creates good word for the publisher and provides a profit for the distributor, both of which result in the purchase and sale of new games. People just get pissed off because they feel slighted when Gamestop buys a game from them for 5$ and then turns around and sells it for 40$.

I'd say used game sales fall somewhere in an the ethical gray area. They're not bad from a business standpoint, but they always do feel a little bit shady. Everytime I buy a used game, I know that some poor guy has just been ripped off.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

So I was reading about Zenoclash and their struggle against piracy. We all know its pretty rampant, and it really does hit the pockets of the smaller developers. However, used games and piracy both result in no sales for the developer. So which is worse, piracy or used game sales?

Personally, I'm guilty of both. I dont like pirating games - I love holding a game box, the smell of freshly printed manual and the guarantee of online play and patches. However, used games unfortunately make up a percentage of my games collection. Personally, I believe that piracy is worse than used game sales.

Whats your opinion escapist?

P.S. Please dont discuss anything concerning piracy that is likely to result in a ban.

Piracy, and I'll tell you why.

Used game sales might not turn a direct profit for the developer, but they do turn a profit for the distributor. Since the distributor is an important link in the way of game sales, they play an important role in keeping those game developers afloat, and thus drive the gaming industry as a whole, therefore used game sales indirectly benefit the developers and they are not bad at all.

Also, the amount of used games sold directly influences the number of new copies which are purchased from the distributor. Doesn't matter if a game is sold as used or new, the overall popularity of the game is what decides the number of copies stocked in the store.

I'm not even sure how this is a valid question. You're literally asking, which is better stealing or not stealing. I'm going to assume the people who have voted used game sales or equally bad are either high or trolling.

Thank you. I can't believe game developers and gamers are becoming so anti-piracy that they're honestly considering the selling of secondhand games to be a bad thing. In many cases, the games are out of print anyway. What, so we're suddenly not allowed to play a game because buying secondhand is wrong and the developers won't make more?

The secondhand buying and selling of games directly influences the buying and selling of new games. People sell old games and buy new ones. Ergo, people forced to keep their old games and denied the resale value of them would have less money to spend on new games.

Seriously, consumers have rights. If I wanted to sell my car, nobody here would have a problem with it. If, however, I wanted to sell my video game, suddenly there's an issue? That's just stupid. Once I pay for something I own it. I have the right to do whatever I want with what I payed for (within reason, but resale is absolutely within reason). You ask anyone if they have the right to sell something they own and they'll tell you they absolutely do. Who here has honestly NEVER resold something they bought? I can't believe this discussion is even on the table.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Wait, there's a problem with used games?

Consider this possibility:

One person buys a game new (the publisher/developer gets some money). After finishing it, he sells it back to the store.

10-20 other people proceed to over a period of time buy, finish and sell back that same copy of the game. None of the money from these sales goes to the publisher/developer.

It goes to the store that sells the games, instead. Does that happen in significant enough amounts to harm the developer? (I guess I could ask the same about piracy, but that's a little more directly harmful)

It does happen in large amounts, but I wouldn't say its really "harmful" to the developer.

Used game sales are actually beneficial to the gaming industry as a whole because they turn a profit for the distributor. This both creates good word for the publisher and provides a profit for the distributor, both of which result in the purchase and sale of new games. People just get pissed off because they feel slighted when Gamestop buys a game from them for 5$ and then turns around and sells it for 40$.

I'd say used game sales fall somewhere in an the ethical gray area. They're not bad from a business standpoint, but they always do feel a little bit shady. Everytime I buy a used game, I know that some poor guy has just been ripped off.

I'd never thought of that. Suddenly, I'm glad most of my used games are games only available used (Genesis, N64, and the like)...though since most of the games I own are used, that's not saying a whole lot...

 

[ontherisess]

Why do people even buy second hand? They sell them the same price as first hand anyway.

 

[Stryc9]

The day used games selling becomes illegal is the day I lead a revolt against every major games developer. If you're going to outlaw that, might as well outlaw ALL USED SALES OF ANYTHING, EVER. The same rules apply in either situation (creators not making money.)

When somebody sells a used game, somebody ELSE bought that game new. The devs already MADE their 1 sale from that game. If they want more people to buy new games, they can lower their prices. I bought KoF: '98 Ultimate Match brand new for $20, but I wouldn't have paid $60 for it. SNK understands this, EA does not.

Pretty much this, if you want to say that selling\buying used games should be against the law because it denies the developer\publisher a sale then you have to ban the sale of used cars because that denies the car maker the sale of a new car, the sale of used TVs and game consoles for the same reason.

Because I don't have millions of dollars a year to drop on every game I want to play I tend to buy a lot of used games, usually off ebay or from thrift stores because by the time I get around to them they're too old to go to the store and purchase anymore.

I tend to be more sympathetic to small developers having a legitimate complaint about piracy hurting the industry than I am say EA whining about how people pirated Generic Crappy Game 5082. Iron Lore the developers of Titan Quest, which I bought at retail along with the expansion were a victim of this. Someone leaked the game online before it was supposed to be released and a bunch of people downloaded it and had the audacity to complain to tech support about the game being broken because it would CTD at random points. This was actually part of the copy protection, my retail copy works fine as far as that goes. In the end the pirates started posting this bullshit about it being broken on various forums and the game got a bad rap and sales suffered because of it and Iron Lore closed.

 

[Crash486]

Why do people even buy second hand? They sell them the same price as first hand anyway.

Only at gamestop do they sell at the same price as first hand. Gamestop is pretty notorious for their price fixing. Everywhere else in the world, used games are sold at a considerable discount.

Gamestop adjusts their price based on how recent the game is, and the overall popularity and sales of the game. Take for instance, Katamari Damacy, when that game was first released it retailed for 20$. A few months later, the game grew exponentially in popularity and the Gamestop price suddenly jumped from 20$ to 40$. They started selling used copies for 25$, 5$ more than what the game was selling for retail just a few months earlier.

On top of that, people selling the game back to gamestop were getting around 5$ for their trade in. Gamestop is just a scummy company with a closet full of skeletons. I try to avoid buying from them whenever possible.

Other than the discount, people buy used games because games only print for so long. When the publisher stops printing the game, your only option of obtaining the game is to buy used.

 

[Whistler777]

Of course piracy is going to be worse than buying used games due to the fact that the publishers see no initial profit, as opposed to the person who bought the game new and then sold it to someone else.

Now.

Every single game that I have bought for the PC, I downloaded before-hand. Why? Because we are in the equivalent of a video-gaming recession right now: companies like EA and Activision flood the market with shitty, gray-filtered games and few developers with creative ideas (ask any gamer on a college campus whether they could make a better Halo) fail to surface.

However, if I download a game and I see that the developers really tried to make the game something unique and/or engaging, I'll buy it next paycheck. Support the industry, but only those who deserve to be supported...that's my motto.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Anyone who says used game sales are worse than piracy is just trying to justify the fact that they NEVER pay for games, new or used, the thieving bastards.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Why do people even buy second hand? They sell them the same price as first hand anyway.

Only at gamestop do they sell at the same price as first hand. Gamestop is pretty notorious for their price fixing. Everywhere else in the world, used games are sold at a considerable discount.

Gamestop adjusts their price based on how recent the game is, and the overall popularity and sales of the game. Take for instance, Katamari Damacy, when that game was first released it retailed for 20$. A few months later, the game grew exponentially in popularity and the Gamestop price suddenly jumped from 20$ to 40$. They started selling used copies for 25$, 5$ more than what the game was selling for retail just a few months earlier.

On top of that, people selling the game back to gamestop were getting around 5$ for their trade in. Gamestop is just a scummy company with a closet full of skeletons. I try to avoid buying from them whenever possible.

Other than the discount, people buy used games because games only print for so long. When the publisher stops printing the game, your only option of obtaining the game is to buy used.

Interesting, I had heard this about Gamespot however never given a specific example myself since Gamespot only recently came into Canada (We have had EBgames though) My game store gives pretty solid figures for games, depending of course on the game. I traded in Monster Rancher 4 years ago and got $40 because it is a difficult game to acquire. I have also received multiple double digit prices for games I traded in.

I can understand stores either refusing certain games or giving an exceptionally low amount. For example if I owned a Game Store, I would give something like $5 for any of the Halo games because so many people trade them in you are swamped with games you will never sell. Of course all these games are also marked down at low prices. So at least it balances in that regard, unless it is Gamespot. They really need some competition by the sound of it.

 

[ontherisess]

Why do people even buy second hand? They sell them the same price as first hand anyway.

Only at gamestop do they sell at the same price as first hand. Gamestop is pretty notorious for their price fixing. Everywhere else in the world, used games are sold at a considerable discount.

Gamestop adjusts their price based on how recent the game is, and the overall popularity and sales of the game. Take for instance, Katamari Damacy, when that game was first released it retailed for 20$. A few months later, the game grew exponentially in popularity and the Gamestop price suddenly jumped from 20$ to 40$. They started selling used copies for 25$, 5$ more than what the game was selling for retail just a few months earlier.

On top of that, people selling the game back to gamestop were getting around 5$ for their trade in. Gamestop is just a scummy company with a closet full of skeletons. I try to avoid buying from them whenever possible.

Other than the discount, people buy used games because games only print for so long. When the publisher stops printing the game, your only option of obtaining the game is to buy used.

I don't have a clue what gamestop is but game, WH Smiths, Speake, Tesco, Sainsburys, blockbusters and any other shop I can think of all sell their used games to within £2 of their new games

 

[Crash486]

Why do people even buy second hand? They sell them the same price as first hand anyway.

Only at gamestop do they sell at the same price as first hand. Gamestop is pretty notorious for their price fixing. Everywhere else in the world, used games are sold at a considerable discount.

Gamestop adjusts their price based on how recent the game is, and the overall popularity and sales of the game. Take for instance, Katamari Damacy, when that game was first released it retailed for 20$. A few months later, the game grew exponentially in popularity and the Gamestop price suddenly jumped from 20$ to 40$. They started selling used copies for 25$, 5$ more than what the game was selling for retail just a few months earlier.

On top of that, people selling the game back to gamestop were getting around 5$ for their trade in. Gamestop is just a scummy company with a closet full of skeletons. I try to avoid buying from them whenever possible.

Other than the discount, people buy used games because games only print for so long. When the publisher stops printing the game, your only option of obtaining the game is to buy used.

Interesting, I had heard this about Gamespot however never given a specific example myself since Gamespot only recently came into Canada (We have had EBgames though) My game store gives pretty solid figures for games, depending of course on the game. I traded in Monster Rancher 4 years ago and got $40 because it is a difficult game to acquire. I have also received multiple double digit prices for games I traded in.

I can understand stores either refusing certain games or giving an exceptionally low amount. For example if I owned a Game Store, I would give something like $5 for any of the Halo games because so many people trade them in you are swamped with games you will never sell. Of course all these games are also marked down at low prices. So at least it balances in that regard, unless it is Gamespot. They really need some competition by the sound of it.

They bought out the competition unfortunately (electronics botique). I actually think both EB and Gamestop were suffereing due to the competition they were receiving from wal-mart, and online distributors like Amazon.com, hence the reason for the merger. They really are the only large game retailer in America now though, which is both sad and scary.

The gamestops I go to won't give you a "hard" number for what they'll give you in resale value. They have an electronic database which updates weekly. Based on the sales figures from the previous week, they adjust their prices accordingly. There are several factors that go into determining the value of your trade in, the number of copies they've received in trade, the number of copies they've sold, how recent the game, if its still in print, if its rare, etc. I can say I've never received more than 10$ for a game I've traded in. I think alot of that has to do with the fact that I don't tend to trade in recent games.

I used to work in a used CD store where we had a similar database for our inventory. I don't know how different it is for games, but I can tell you this about our store. The majority of our profits came from used CD sales. The overhead on new CDs is very small, they might make a dollar or 2 on each album they sell. However, the profit margin on a used CD (even a new one) is much larger. We'd be used cd's anywhere from 2$ to 5$ cash and turn around and sell them for 5$ to 10$. Thus, as a salesman, we were always encouraged to check to see if we had a used copy of an album before we sold a new copy.