Poll: Poll: Have you ever shot a gun? (Also note which country you live in)

[Low Key]

My next door neighbors have been gun owners all their life and have never killed anyone. In fact, I have never once felt my life was in danger being in or around their house. Some of my friends own unregistered (in some cases illegal) guns and I have never felt my life is/was in danger while being around them. Hell, one of my friends owns a fucking RPG, and I'm more concerned about his neighbors than him because he lives in the ghetto.

Guns don't make a person a killer, a fucked up mind does. If you want something to die, you don't need an instrument that goes bang.

 

[Frankster]

uber snip

Actually the wits part has nothing to do with how crime works. It involves taking precautionnary steps, knowing possible dangers and how to deal with them. A previous poster wrote a good post about it, how simply things such as locking every access to your home prevents danger far more then a gun, which is usually more of a last resort scenario. And where does this insight come from btw? You have a rather arrogant pretence of "knowing how things work", but I havent seen you present a real argument that didnt rely on scaremongering examples. It strikes me more as an incredibly one sided world view, completely ignorant of factors and nuances of the various situations you use as an example or drawing far fetched conclusions.

Again you do a TL DR of extreme examples, but they dont justify your point at all. What you're doing is called scaremongering, and you could use it to justify just about anything. I could argue for a need for everyone to walk around wielding KATANAS in public, if everyone was armed with katanas and in full view, then none of these incidents would have happened!
In fact, it would be a more effective deterent then concealed guns imo.

"Here is the truth. Cities that have the most armed citizens have far fewer crimes that cities that has the most gun control laws"

Can I have some statistics please? Preferrably from multiple sources to make certain it isnt the result of bias. And even if it were true, let me tell you one big secret that my stats teacher always bangs on about: just because there is a correlation doesn't mean there is a causation.
Translation: We will need to consider every possible factor, you would gladly brandish such stats as irrefutable proof your position is right, but it wouldnt prove jack all.

Not surprised UK is most violent country, there are social factors involved btw.
And I did say I have been attacked by knives twice in london right?

Btw where do your assumptions about criminals come from? This is a much more complex issue that I have no desire to debate on, but some of what you say is brutally oversimplified.

In your last 3 examples, does the lady and man go around proudly showing their gun? I'd imagine the criminal would have no idea if the lady was armed or not until the actual attack.

I'm not going to repeat some of my previous arguments or examples that you seem to have sidestepped or ignored completely, and I'm not enjoying debating with you on account of your condescending tone or some of your patronizing statements (and indeed im making less of an effort to constructively debate). It seems less like a friendly debate and more like talking to a zealot, I'm starting to think that my guess of you being a fearful person needing guns to reassure themselves that they are in control was bang on, especially seeing some of the things you say....

If you do want to continue this debate (id be up for it on my side), then please be respectful and consider the possibility you might not only be wrong, but your established views might be the result of other factors. There have been some posters here who have made good points, but yours isnt one of them and quite frankly a lot of what you say just annoys me, both for the manner you express them, and the conclusions you jump to.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

The wits part is what made me think you don't how things works. You can have all the wits you like but when someone break into your home no wits will stop him/them. Only something lethal, like you know a firearm.

Do you think a 120lbs female by herself can stop a 250lbs 6'2" in her own home from getting rape using house hold items? Tell that to all the females that got raped and killed in their own homes/apartments. You basing it on fantasy. It's not going happen in real life.

Do you want me to show you more reports on how gun prevent home invasions? Here is a small list of citizens stopping home invaders.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/

Here is a video where a man stop arms attackers from entering his home. He killed one and the other three fled.
http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1019&Itemid=39

Here is a lady that pull out her shotgun and killed a home invader.
http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1112&Itemid=39

Here is a lady using her wits and her gun to turn the table of a robber.
http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1140&Itemid=39

I can go on and on. Millions of Americans are save each year using their weapons to stop crimes.

Now lets go to your country.

Girl, 15, found stabbed to death in her own home. What happen? Should she able to defended herself with none firearms items in her own home? Where was the police?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7432088.stm

Guns campaigner stabbed to death. This lady that promoted gun control find herself stabbed to death. Where was her wits? Where was the cops? Shouldn't she be able to defend herself with the items around her?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_yorkshire/7430668.stm

The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

Here is the truth. Cities that have the most armed citizens have far fewer crimes that cities that has the most gun control laws. Do you want to know why? Criminals don't want to be killed. It's that simple.

Pretend you're a criminal.

1. You see a 120lbs lady by herself. You see a 250lbs man by himself that can knock your head off. Which would you rob? The defenseless lady because she doen't pose lethal threat.
2. You see a armed 120lbs lady by herself. You see a 250lbs man by himself that can knock your head off. Which would you want to rob? The 250lbs because chances are that he won't kill you.
3. You see a armed 120lbs lady by herself. You see a 250lbs armed man by himself. Which would you want to rob? None because both can kill you. That's brutal logic.

Criminals pick the most weak and defenseless to attack. The weak are the most that benefit from having a firearm to defend themselves.

And finally the Gun myths. What you posted is all myths that have no facts that are base in reality.
http://rpginn.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=200&Itemid=39

You can bring out all the anecdotal evidence you like and it proves precicely nothing. You can find stories of people in the UK defending themselves quite adequately without firearms and you can find stories in the US of people who own wepons being the victims of crime.

I generally view the different gun laws in the US and UK as being right for the country involved.

While Britain does have a higher rate of recorded violent crime, the majority is minor alcohol related violence. You don't even have to hit someone for it to count as a violent crime, assault and affray don't require physical contact. The homicide rate in the UK is far lower.
The conclusion most sensible peiople come to is that in the UK there is more minor violence going on but in the US, when something does happen it's far more likely to be serious.

Idiots on both sides of the Atlantic seem to think that the other is a hotbed of crime and violence where everyone is a victim because they do/n't have guns. Neither is that bad. On one side your more likely to get a bullet in you, on the other it's a bottle over the back of your head.

 

[Frankster]

If I could buy the people like you plane tickets, bring you to the U.S., and show you what it is really like here, you would probably be singing a different tune.

You do make some good points but afraid buying plane tickets wouldnt change much for peeps like me :\
Fact is, and im sure that most anti gun peeps feel at least partially like this, we dont trust our fellow man enough not to do something stupid. Which is why if somebody does snap, we would much rather see them using a knife at worst then go on a killing spree with a gun.

Hell, depending on where you live I'd probably still be tense no matter where you take me (if its a region where they dont like foreigners id be especially worried).

And ya i can believe having a gun reassures you. Psychologically it gives you a sense of control of your surroundings. The problem is for those around you who arent armed and who dont know you enough to trust you, telling me they passed a test isnt exactly going to make everything ok.

And btw I have 1 story a friend told me once that kinda shaped my worries of ever visiting the USA.
He was playing a poker game in Louisanna (he is half american, he comes from there), when a texan he beated approached him after the game, calmly showed his gun and demanded his money back.
Naturally, he was kinda forced to hand it over, but then another poker player (a local louisanna man i think) in turn pointed his own gun at the texan and asked that he leave the kid alone.
Texan hands back the money, and affair gets resolved, with my friend being rather shaken by the whole experience. I remember asking him if it meant he now walked around with a gun to which he replied "whats the point? by the time a gun is pointed at me i havent got time to get mine out".
There are plenty of ways you can interpret this story and draw your own conclusions, im merely telling this as I feel its relevent to the topic.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I've only shot guns on one occasion. They were owned by my sisters husband. I'm very interested in both the elegance of the technology of guns, the ability of self-defense offered by handguns and the enjoyment offered by firing them. When I am 18, I plan to buy rifles. When I'm 21 I will buy handguns.

I guess I can at least agree with my fellow Texans in one area.

 

[lee1287]

Nope. From the UK. Even our polive don't carry them. Bah.

 

[tsb247]

If I could buy the people like you plane tickets, bring you to the U.S., and show you what it is really like here, you would probably be singing a different tune.

You do make some good points but afraid buying plane tickets wouldnt change much for peeps like me :\
Fact is, and im sure that most anti gun peeps feel at least partially like this, we dont trust our fellow man enough not to do something stupid. Which is why if somebody does snap, we would much rather see them using a knife at worst then go on a killing spree with a gun.

Hell, depending on where you live I'd probably still be tense no matter where you take me (if its a region where they dont like foreigners id be especially worried).

And ya i can believe having a gun reassures you. Psychologically it gives you a sense of control of your surroundings. The problem is for those around you who arent armed and who dont know you enough to trust you, telling me they passed a test isnt exactly going to make everything ok.

And btw I have 1 story a friend told me once that kinda shaped my worries of ever visiting the USA.
He was playing a poker game in Louisanna (he is half american, he comes from there), when a texan he beated approached him after the game, calmly showed his gun and demanded his money back.
Naturally, he was kinda forced to hand it over, but then another poker player (a local louisanna man i think) in turn pointed his own gun at the texan and asked that he leave the kid alone.
Texan hands back the money, and affair gets resolved, with my friend being rather shaken by the whole experience. I remember asking him if it meant he now walked around with a gun to which he replied "whats the point? by the time a gun is pointed at me i havent got time to get mine out".
There are plenty of ways you can interpret this story and draw your own conclusions, im merely telling this as I feel its relevent to the topic.

What you described is a no-win situation. Having a gun in that situation would likely be pointless due to the fact that you would likely be shot yourself while going for it. However, there are plenty of situation where a civilian having a gun has actually done a lot of good.

I have seen people stop armed thieves dead in their tracks (no pun intended). I have seen people thwart convenience store robberies, and there are even documented cases of armed civilians assisting the police and saving lives. I will readily admit that having a gun is not advantageous in every situation, but there are situations where they do a lot of good. I would rather be able to stop something horrible if I could than be helpless, unarmed, powerless to stop a tragedy.

Most Americans that carry never need to use their weapons. I believe the slogan is, "Carry daily, use sparingly." Most don't even carry every day. I don't have my permit yet, but I plan on getting it soon. I have taken the test. All I have to do is pay the appropriate fees and register my residence with the sheriff, and I will be set.

Oh, and the incidents I described took place on my own private property - I can legally open carry there.

 

[Audioave10]

I have shot a few guns but have never owned any.

 

[SodaDew]

I live in the United States(Colorado) and i find it frequently entertaining to target shoot.

 

[Captain Kangaroo PIMP]

Yes (skeet skeet mother fucker) which is my dumb way of saying i love skeet shooting.

 

[Browbeat]

Currently own/have access to (stored elsewhere) three handguns, a hunting carbine, and a Bulgarian-manufactured AK-47 notched down to semi-auto.

Largest caliber ever fired was a .357, and I was younger, so the kick almost knocked me backwards.

Best accuracy has been with handguns, surprisingly, as I never learned to consistently compensate for the AK's iron sights.

Had a little experience with ambidextrous handgun training. Reloading can be very awkward...

 

[Frankster]

I would rather be able to stop something horrible if I could than be helpless, unarmed, powerless to stop a tragedy.

I believe this is key sentence, I translate this as the desire to control your surroundings.

Though there are exceptions, fact is european criminals outside of organized gangs (so we are talking petty crime) dont have guns, its knives instead or improvised weapons instead ( i remember policemen coming to my school when i was younger and showing us the weapons they were used to fighting against: it was all close combat things like knuckle dusters and switch blades, they had only seen armed criminals twice in their entire career).

I don't believe a gun is necessary to help out if you really want to, especially as there have been identical cases to your example where robbers or muggers were thwarted by unarmed people.
But, guns do make vigilantism easier....

So guess I'll echo the views of some others here and conclude its up for each country and their people to decide what works best for them. If they are willing to trade in a certain peace of mind that comes from knowing that no matter what, its unlikely someone will pull a gun on you , in exchange for added control that comes from being able o easily intervene and the knowledge that if all goes bad, you can easily kill the person you're looking at. Glass half full/empty situation.

 

[Agent Larkin]

I only got to shoot one gun in my life (Irish Gun laws are very strict) and that was a c96 Mauser. God I love that gun.

Lucky...
Was it the 7.63 Mauser or the 9mm version?
Also, how was it to load the thing?
I've never used a pistol with an internal cartridge before

It was a 9mm. I'm fairly sure it was a spanish knock-off. Loading it was odd but nothing too strange it can take a bit of a push to load the stripper clip though.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I shot either a C7 Diemaco rifle or a C8 Diemaco carbine (I can't remember which one of the 2) at an army exhibition day. I sucked, but then again, I was like 12 or something.

I'd still love to try pistol shooting.

 

[Nerdfury]

I've actually applied for my H1 license, which grants me the ability to fire weapons unsupervised, and will likely apply for my owner's license, if a year or so of firing range pistols proved to be of enough interest to me, and buy my own to store at home.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm in Australia - the US's slightly older and much cooler brother. You know, the one that everyone prefers to hang out with and go to the pub with.

Holy cow, that's a lot of stuff to go through just to get a gun. Here, as long as you're mentally fit you can own a gun. Handguns have higher restrictions, but needing a license to even fire unsupervised? That's tough.

I'm miffed over the procedure required to buy a pistol here in Michigan in the US; I have to go to the law enforcement center to get a permit to purchase, then I have to go buy, then I have to take the gun to the LEC again to finish the registration. Oh and they're only open when I'm at work so I'd have to take time off.

I don't think it's that harsh. High death tolls and injuries by guns are because they're too easy to get. If I know that my fellow countrymen have to apply for a license, undergo training sessions on proper care, use and maintenance, apply for a license to own and keep a gun, and undergo regular inspections to make sure it's stored in line with state legislation - well, I just sleep better at night.

I can understand that. But I wonder where the line is between responsible gun ownership being enforced by laws, and the law being used to suppress responsible gun ownership. I don't know if Australia's crossed it, but I do know at least here there's a stigma associated with it, to the point that unless you're talking guns with gun people, you'll get a bit of a reputation as a crazy gun nut, even if you're not. And non-gun people are a bit nervous of your interests.

Our laws don't prevent gun ownership, it just weeds out the irresponsible ones and makes sure that people are educated on proper care and maintenance, as well as kept an eye on.

And we have that stigma here, too. You can see it when you go to a range - there's me, and there's a bunch of people with beards and baseball caps, angrily muttering about fuckin' Asians taking mah jobs or fuckin' immigrants takin' mah wimmunz.

Ha! Nice. Our foreign threat of choice is Mexicans, but the language is pretty much the same. If crazy racist rednecks at the range aren't griping about losing their jobs to "illegals" (illegal immigrants) they're whining about how some local belle fell in love with a no good Hispanic boy who doesn't talk right.

But this is all tangential. I'd love some mandatory training courses prior to gun ownership, but if the alternative is an even higher social stigma or government watchdogging, I'd be leery of it. They'd also have to not be completely pointless. An owner should have skill, not just a piece of paper saying so.

Well, yeah, but that's kinda the point. Basically, you apply for a license to use firearms unsupervised - this starts with a background check. Once approved, you attend mandatory training sessions, where you lean how to maintain the weapon, use it safely, store it, the types of ammo there are and what you can and can't use with a particular weapon. Once you've done that and the trainers are satisfied you're competent and aren't likely to kill someone, they sign off and you can use weapons unsupervised.

To get your own, there's another license, more training and background checks, etc. Then, to be able to keep it at home, there's another license, random inspections to make sure it's secured properly, etc. That way, you're almost guaranteed that if someone legally owns a gun, they're not fucking retarded about it.

 

[BOBLOB]

I live in Australia, I go shooting with my dad and friends whenever I get the chance and I love it! I own a CZ 452, marlin model 39a, Brno model 2 and an air rifle, and they're all Fucking awesome! have shot other calibres including .308 and 12 gauge (wish I had both of those, they're really fun to shoot!)
it's very difficult to get a license here and the ammo isn't cheap but it is worth all the effort!

 

[Alexnader]

I've fired an F-88 Austeyr which is the assault rifle generally used by the Australian Army. I did this through Army Cadets. Nonetheless my experience of shooting is limited to this one rifle, I didn't get to go automatic like the shooting instructors did

 

[yaik7a]

I own alot of guns.When I was in the war I used a Ak-74m.

Ooh, which war? I see you're Russian, so I assume either Chechnya or Georgia? Or Afghanistan, if you're going way back.

Chechnya and Georgia. I was in Chechnya 6 Years ago and I enlisted again when I herd of the Georgian war.If I was in Afghanistan I would have been use a regular Ak-74.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I've fired a .22 but that's about it. I really want to get into hunting and I need to take a firearms course but I don't seem to ever have the time. I need to make time if I'm to survive the zombie apocalypse.

EDIT: I live in the country that is often branded by the stereotypical word "Eh" Three guesses.