Poll: Poll: "Tainted" by the fandom

[eatenbyagrue]

[
I'd respond to your post but first I need to wrap my head around the concept that you're an English teacher who speaks English.


....

No good.

(Explodes)

But to actually answer: while I don't know the specifics of your situation, I can understand when it might not be the best idea to reveal certain interests in the real world (i.e. away from the internet). And that saying "Well they are just making an illogical judgement on you and you've done nothing wrong!" doesn't really help when the brick hurling mobs show up.

The specifics are pretty much "lives and works in a conservative minded country, where most people know very little about the world outside of tabloid news (seriously, if you think the Daily Mail and the Sun are bad, they can only dream of the kind of hold local tabloids have on the people here) and are prone to talking smack about people who disagree with their norms." And yes, that's entirely the point I've been making: I'd very much like to enjoy things, or admit to enjoying some of the things I enjoy, but I can't because of the nature of my work.

I have voted "No, because "good" fans need to counteract the "bad" ones", although my view could be even better described as "Even the things that you call "bad fandoms" are actually quite good according to me".

If I like something, I'm actually PART OF the fandom, and I have always observed that it is actually just full of a bunch of other people who like the same thing and want to express it. Literally no exceptions.

The very idea of a "bad fandom" relies on two obviously biased perceptions.

First, by talking about the size of membership as interchargible with "ferocity". So "millions of Mass Effect fans are all expressing disappontment at the ending" becomes "A mob of raging Mass Effect fans are overshouting everyone else on the Internet", or "thousands of people choosewearing pony-themed forum avatars to express their taste" becomes "No matter where we turn ponies are shoved down on our throat!"

Second, and this is stated often, by misidentifying a vocal minority as the relevant representation of anything at all. Even the people who formally *do* acknowledge that they are talking about a minority, still overstate it's significance. Even the word "vocal" is an example of that. The guy who married an anime character didn't do anything particularly "loud" or omnipresent, it is the counterfandom that is so determined to bring it to spotlight, literally one dude's actions representing millions. Why should I care the least bit about that portrayal? Some other guy on the Escapist forums was acting like a dick, therefore your opinions are also invalid to me anyways. (at least by the same bizarro logic).

Some people create "bad fandom" stereotypes because they want to appear moderate, and create a scapegoat community compared to which they are appropriate and refined. Others are plain and simply haters of the subject material, playing turf wars over how their own community is so much better than their stinky, meanie opponents. Gaming platform supporters are an example of that.

See, this is actually enlightening. I wasn't aware that I'd biased the whole poll by using the terms "good" and "bad" fans. In my head, there's always been a very clear dividing line: a "good" fan of something is a fairly respectable person, who does fairly respectable person things, while a "bad" fine is pretty much every worst stereotype of gamers, bronies (is that a proper noun?) and anime fans that we can think of.

But you do make a solid point: maybe by "bad", we really do just mean "ferocious".

 

[Dragonlayer]

[
I'd respond to your post but first I need to wrap my head around the concept that you're an English teacher who speaks English.


....

No good.

(Explodes)

But to actually answer: while I don't know the specifics of your situation, I can understand when it might not be the best idea to reveal certain interests in the real world (i.e. away from the internet). And that saying "Well they are just making an illogical judgement on you and you've done nothing wrong!" doesn't really help when the brick hurling mobs show up.

The specifics are pretty much "lives and works in a conservative minded country, where most people know very little about the world outside of tabloid news (seriously, if you think the Daily Mail and the Sun are bad, they can only dream of the kind of hold local tabloids have on the people here) and are prone to talking smack about people who disagree with their norms." And yes, that's entirely the point I've been making: I'd very much like to enjoy things, or admit to enjoying some of the things I enjoy, but I can't because of the nature of my work.

I have voted "No, because "good" fans need to counteract the "bad" ones", although my view could be even better described as "Even the things that you call "bad fandoms" are actually quite good according to me".

If I like something, I'm actually PART OF the fandom, and I have always observed that it is actually just full of a bunch of other people who like the same thing and want to express it. Literally no exceptions.

The very idea of a "bad fandom" relies on two obviously biased perceptions.

First, by talking about the size of membership as interchargible with "ferocity". So "millions of Mass Effect fans are all expressing disappontment at the ending" becomes "A mob of raging Mass Effect fans are overshouting everyone else on the Internet", or "thousands of people choosewearing pony-themed forum avatars to express their taste" becomes "No matter where we turn ponies are shoved down on our throat!"

Second, and this is stated often, by misidentifying a vocal minority as the relevant representation of anything at all. Even the people who formally *do* acknowledge that they are talking about a minority, still overstate it's significance. Even the word "vocal" is an example of that. The guy who married an anime character didn't do anything particularly "loud" or omnipresent, it is the counterfandom that is so determined to bring it to spotlight, literally one dude's actions representing millions. Why should I care the least bit about that portrayal? Some other guy on the Escapist forums was acting like a dick, therefore your opinions are also invalid to me anyways. (at least by the same bizarro logic).

Some people create "bad fandom" stereotypes because they want to appear moderate, and create a scapegoat community compared to which they are appropriate and refined. Others are plain and simply haters of the subject material, playing turf wars over how their own community is so much better than their stinky, meanie opponents. Gaming platform supporters are an example of that.

See, this is actually enlightening. I wasn't aware that I'd biased the whole poll by using the terms "good" and "bad" fans. In my head, there's always been a very clear dividing line: a "good" fan of something is a fairly respectable person, who does fairly respectable person things, while a "bad" fine is pretty much every worst stereotype of gamers, bronies (is that a proper noun?) and anime fans that we can think of.

But you do make a solid point: maybe by "bad", we really do just mean "ferocious".

My apologies for just repeating your point then, I'm a little worn out from university today.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

My apologies for just repeating your point then, I'm a little worn out from university today.

Actually, that was just an excuse to quote the whole "head exploding" thing. Funniest thing I'd read all day, but it's kind of a sad fact that the skill which allows me to practice my trade is also something that I'm condemned for.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

It depends on your own personal ideals. I prefer to judge media by its own merits and not by what surrounds it. Like Fez and Enders Game. Others do not, and they may view it differently. In the case of fans, it depends if you have to play with them or not. A good game can have a shitty community that makes it a pain to play. But in cases where it's just fans saying things about the game, or the general playerbase is alright, then I don't really care.

 

[Drummodino]

Personally no I don't really care about what the fandom is like. If I don't like a lot of the fans, I just won't interact with them. Ignorance is bliss and what not.

 

[Alterego-X]

See, this is actually enlightening. I wasn't aware that I'd biased the whole poll by using the terms "good" and "bad" fans. In my head, there's always been a very clear dividing line: a "good" fan of something is a fairly respectable person, who does fairly respectable person things, while a "bad" fine is pretty much every worst stereotype of gamers, bronies (is that a proper noun?) and anime fans that we can think of.

I think the main difference between us, is that I don't even see what's so "disrespectable" about many of those worst stereotypes in the first place.

If you tell me that the majority of Harry Potter fans are clubbing old ladies to death with flaming baseball bats, then yeah, that's a community that I want to distance myself from.

If you tell me, (to use an example already mentioned in this thread), that they are bad because they often do crazy disrespectable things like read and write fanfiction, then... yeah. What's wrong with that? Are Star Wars fans disrespectable if they are waiting for the new movies made by someone else than Lucas? So why should Potter fans abstain from anything not written by Rowling?

These stereotypes work as long as they are kept intentionally vague and utilizing the listener's dirtiest fantasies, but if you are explicitly pointing out WHAT they are, then they turn out to be the exact same things that anyone rational would do if they profoundly enjoy something and want to support it and help it be popular.

 

[Nadia Castle]

Isn't this basically the problem everyone has with Communism? I mean if you bother to read 'Das Kapital' it's basically a philosophy book about how people will one day rise above their materialistic needs, the problem is all its fanboys are a-moral psychos.

When it comes to actual nerd culture I'm more mixed, I like Japanese anime but I still prefer western animation. A torrent of fanboys telling me how Anime is so much better because being filled with ridiculously sized boobs and blood isn't going to change the fact that I enjoy both.

Then again I wandered into a local war gaming shop last week to see if they had any cheap Warhammer figures to paint and the sheer amount of evil stares I got for entering their sanctuary means I've lost any interest in learning how to play it. Also I know it's mean to say it but damn did the place have a...'distinct' smell.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

See, this is actually enlightening. I wasn't aware that I'd biased the whole poll by using the terms "good" and "bad" fans. In my head, there's always been a very clear dividing line: a "good" fan of something is a fairly respectable person, who does fairly respectable person things, while a "bad" fine is pretty much every worst stereotype of gamers, bronies (is that a proper noun?) and anime fans that we can think of.

I think the main difference between us, is that I don't even see what's so "disrespectable" about many of those worst stereotypes in the first place.

If you tell me that the majority of Harry Potter fans are clubbing old ladies to death with flaming baseball bats, then yeah, that's a community that I want to distance myself from.

If you tell me, (to use an example already mentioned in this thread), that they are bad because they often do crazy disrespectable things like read and write fanfiction, then... yeah. What's wrong with that? Are Star Wars fans disrespectable if they are waiting for the new movies made by someone else than Lucas? So why should Potter fans abstain from anything not written by Rowling?

These stereotypes work as long as they are kept intentionally vague and utilizing the listener's dirtiest fantasies, but if you are explicitly pointing out WHAT they are, then they turn out to be the exact same things that anyone rational would do if they profoundly enjoy something and want to support it and help it be popular.

Chalk it up to bad experiences. I used to have a group of friends who behaved exactly like the "J Pop America Funtime" sketch from Saturday Night Live. I don't have a problem with fanfiction (as someone who has to teach teenagers how to write, I'm probably the last person to decry people writing in their spare time), but it's the people who let it take over their lives that bug me. To use your Harry Potter example: if somebody confided in my that they own a complete set of film-accurate robes, I wouldn't mind. But if they actually went around with those robes in public, with a wand casting spells on people they disliked, then that's the kind of fans that I find "disrespectable".

 

[Dragonlayer]

My apologies for just repeating your point then, I'm a little worn out from university today.

Actually, that was just an excuse to quote the whole "head exploding" thing. Funniest thing I'd read all day, but it's kind of a sad fact that the skill which allows me to practice my trade is also something that I'm condemned for.

Ah, glad I could entertain even as I drift in and out of coherent thought! Hopefully it provides some compensation for having to put up with your ultra-conservatives.

 

[loa]

I liked linking parks meteora album despite all my friends telling me that he "sold out" and does "emo music", I can like michael jacksons music despite that whole accusation of him being a raging pedophile, I can like some final fantasy games despite some vocal fans being absolute rabid idiots and I can like my little pony:fim despite that attached fandom which just takes things over the top seriously and can't apparently not talk about mlp at any given moment.

I can like some furry art without hopping around in a fursuit, I can like pokemon without having a million plushies, every single spinoff game and going absolutely crazy about it, I can like call of duty without being a shrieking 15 year old and I can like anime without being obsessed about japan.

I can support gays without wanting to do men, I can support feminists without being a woman, I can support trans people without wanting to be a girl or something inbetween.

So no.

 

[Alterego-X]

To use your Harry Potter example: if somebody confided in my that they own a complete set of film-accurate robes, I wouldn't mind. But if they actually went around with those robes in public, with a wand casting spells on people they disliked, then that's the kind of fans that I find "disrespectable".

Then we are back to the second point of... is that even a common STEREOTYPE?

I mean, I'm sure someone did that at least once out there, but it's such an outlier that I don't even feel the need to publically distance myself from it, any more than from my fellow countrymen who enjoy covering themselves in jelly, or from people sharing my religion who are corrupt police officers.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

To use your Harry Potter example: if somebody confided in my that they own a complete set of film-accurate robes, I wouldn't mind. But if they actually went around with those robes in public, with a wand casting spells on people they disliked, then that's the kind of fans that I find "disrespectable".

Then we are back to the second point of... is that even a common STEREOTYPE?

I mean, I'm sure someone did that at least once out there, but it's such an outlier that I don't even feel the need to publically distance myself from it, any more than from my fellow countrymen who enjoy covering themselves in jelly, or from people sharing my religion who are corrupt police officers.

It isn't, but that's the first thing people think of. My whole point was that, as much as I'd like to try and enjoy some things, the stereotypes that get lumped alongside them make doing so dangerous at best, and career suicide at worst. Earlier on, one post kinda summed it up nicely:

And that saying "Well they are just making an illogical judgement on you and you've done nothing wrong!" doesn't really help when the brick hurling mobs show up.

 

[floppylobster]

Publicly yes. But you can privately still like and enjoy the work.

Supporting something whose fans sicken you can really detract from your enjoyment of a piece of work (as you can feel like you're adding to it by support). So if you feel that way, just know you like it and don't tell anyone else.

 

[Blacklight28]

For me, it depends on whether or not I have to interact with the fandom to enjoy it. If its a TV show, I can easily watch and enjoy it without having anything to do with the people who get too worked up over it. If it's a multilayer game and I have to deal with swarms of toxicity, then yeah I'm going to hate it.

 

[putowtin]

No, I think there has to be areason for disliking the game and visa versa.

I dislike COD because I find it to be boring, repetitive game play on slightly different maps and lacking in plot.
I dislike the COD players/fans I played the game online with for being a bunch of moronic 13 year olds.

 

[McElroy]

I answered 'no'. Dislike purely because of its fans? No. If I like something and then meet/hear about some fan taking it up to eleven, it's that fan's business, nothing much to do with me. While the same is true with stuff I already dislike, fans can certainly deepen it. I mean, if I didn't even like it, how can someone else obsess over it? It's a conspiracy. Gotta be.

 

[lacktheknack]

I voted no.

I've never avoided something because the fans scare me. They might accuse me of doing so, but I always avoid something because it's A. unappealing, or B. too long to fit my schedule.

 

[Ishal]

No.

I understand where people are coming from when they say things like that. The only real fandom I've been a part of has been the MLP fandom. I don't tend to view the gaming community as a fandom, since it's interests and views are so multifaceted and diverse when it comes to games. The MLP fandom is focused around one thing.

The fans can be obnoxious for reasons we've all heard before, but these aren't things unique to them. They exist in other fandoms as well. The only thing you can do is ignore them.

The point when it gets tricky is when the fandoms influence the product/media, and that does happen to varying degrees. Otaku culture is widely responsible for the decline of anime. The pandering and inward direction is stifling the creative process of new shows and giving birth to disgusting garbage tropes that pop up in the types of anime that are produced now. I don't like anime, but this view is held by many people I know who do like it. Whether it's the case or not, the line between hating something because of its fans becomes blurred.

But in general, the work shouldn't be held responsible for its fans.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

Fans and the work itself are in two separate teams in my eyes.

I see no reason to hate/love a specific thing based on how the fans like it or not. If I like it I do, if not I don't..simple as that.

 

[Hochmeister]

How is it even possible for a fandom to ruin a noninteractive work (MMO's and games whose development are influenced by the fans are exceptions OFC)? Either you like something or you don't; seems to me that if a fandom can influence your appreciation of something you're paying too much attention to them and too little to the work itself. Or do some people simply enjoy interacting with the fandom as much or more than the actual work itself?

Personally, the only way a fandom can "taint" something for me is if they overhype it and raise my expectations too high.