Poll: Popular opinion: Swordplay

[Wyes]

So, having some experience with swordplay and this being a somewhat controversial topic in that field, I thought it'd be interesting to see what people think of this.

Now, I like to avoid selection biases if I can, so if you please don't read what's in the spoiler tags until after you've voted.

So, how do you think you should block with a Western/European (for the purposes of this discussion, think of a typical cross-hilted medieval sword, be it a single sword or longsword)

Spoiler

So, in the historical fencing community, the vast majority of people (including myself, however I am relatively new to it) believe that you should block with the edge of your sword. There are several reasons for this; doing so means that when you block, you have the strength of your wrist and arm behind it (i.e. you have a biomechanical advantage). Similarly, if one blocks on the edge, you have the entire width of the blade behind it, lending it both strength and greater mass along the direction of motion.
Blocking with the flat has none of these advantages, and the only argument I have ever heard in favour of it is that blocking with the edge ruins the edge (which is true, however not enough to render it useless).
Historical accounts of battles also tend to mention notched blades; some see this and go 'See! It ruins the edges, I told you so! Personally, to me this says that if the edges were notched, it's because they were using them to block.
However, I am not an authority on swordplay, and I'd like to hear opinions on this.

EDIT:

So I think I wasn't quite careful enough with my terminology, so I'll define some terms;
Blocking - pretty much what you think it is, this is when you STOP a blow (be it with a blade or a shield)
Parrying - parrying is bit of a broader term, which some feel includes blocking, but it also includes things like deflecting a blow
Deflecting - pretty self explanatory, redirecting a blow without taking the full force of the attack

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Well blocking with a damn shield would be the smart choice, while blocking with just your weapon would be a last resort xD. However, I'd imagine they'd just block with the edge, really. It'd be a little awkward trying to get the placement of your hand correctly to block using the flat, and let's face it, in the middle of a damn battlefield a warrior wouldn't exactly have the time to try and make sure his hand positioning is perfect to parry an incoming blow. Maybe they just used whatever style or means that popped into their head first? I'm not quite sure, it would probably depend on the training the individual had.

 

[Jonluw]

I don't see blocking with the flat working out at all.
There's no way my wrist would be able to hold back a full-on blow from a sword if I tried to parry with my arm on a 90 degree angle to the direction of the strike.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

With the edge. A chipped blade lasts longer than a broken one.

 

[SckizoBoy]

I don't see blocking with the flat working out at all.

Yeah that...

There's a misconception that sword fights involve a lot of blocking... they don't... and much of popular culture does little to help...

In 'real' swordplay, blocking is severely frowned upon and fencers tend not to. They deflect/parry with the edge but never outright block.

However, it does depend on 1. style/school of swordplay 2. culture of swordplay 3. type/construction of sword

Most swordarts these days are about agility and dexterity so blocking makes little sense when it jars the dynamic of the fight. If we're talking zweihaender, bastard swords, hand-and-a-half etc. then blocking is more feasible, but even then the block is more of a deflection that leads into a strike.

 

[chadachada123]

Blocking with the flat? I don't see that doing much except snapping your blade in half if it doesn't have enough give.

Granted, my only "real" experience in this is from a few swords that I've purchased online, one of which snapped when I hit the flat of it against a table (piece of junk), so I may be slightly biased.

 

[kouriichi]

Well, you dont block with it.
Almost all Western swords were designed with the idea of a shield with it.

But, if your forced to block with your blade, you would block with the lower edge of the blade. Not the handguard itself, but the blade above it, using the handguard for help to knock the enemy blade aside.

Trying to block with ONLY the guard will probably cause you to go end up like Anakin.

And while you can parry with the flat of your blade, blocking with it would be a bad idea. Unless its a thicker broad sword that can withstand the full blow across its side. But even then, youd have to brace the top of the blade with your other hand, our you'd probably get your wrist snapped.

So, in short, Block with the edge, near the base of your sword, so you dont chip the more important areas of it ment for stabbing/slashing.

 

[WarDialler]

This was really interesting to read, thanks guys.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Okay, I don't know anything about swordplay and what I'm about to say is based off of unsupported logic:

Would both options not be valid, but dependant on the situation at hand? A full on block would better suit the edge because, as you said, there is more mass behind it and you also have the added bonus of efficient posturing.

But in a situation where someone is thrusting at you (which is probably a weaker strike then a swing, relying on the point for doing the damage) the flat offers more surface area to catch the much smaller point and could be accompanied by a side step. So in other words, your not catching the blow but deflecting it, while stepping off in the opposite direction.

Part of me feels as though the edge would be better suited for offensive stances and catching horizontal swings, while the flat would be better suited for evasion and parrying thrusts and and vertical hacks.

Again, no experience, just how I picture the functions of such a sword.

 

[Blunderboy]

I'd say edge if you don't have a shield. Which is daft, always have a shield.
Besides, you shouldn't be waving it about like that. Thrusting is the way forward.
A few inches of point will beat any length of edge.
Hell it worked for the Romans.

 

[freaper]

To be completely honest, blocking should be the last of your options. Avoiding the blade, or deflecting it should always have priority. Firstly, because you can follow up with an attack more easily than if you had blocked. Secondly, your opponent might be much stronger than you, and smash through your block. And finally, going too defensive usually doesn't get you anywhere.

 

[Smokej]

The main problem is that most historical reenacment groups have little to no philologic knowledge to work with the original sources (often in Middle High German or romanic languages of the Middle Ages) so they have to resort to books from "specialists" who are mostly academic laymen themselves. Those are highly dedicated to their hobbies but lack the sense of language and the methods to work with the sources in a historical critical and analytical way. The result is mostly a mashup of "what makes sense (from our modern standpoint)", "how it could have been" and "how we want it to be"...

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I've been told with the flat end. Since most people wore protective glove you generally could grab both ends of the sword for a block.

It does mess up the blade, it can cause chips, cracks, and eventually if it takes enough punishment destroy the sword itself. Still, I have never been in a sword fight so I'm only speaking what I've been told.

 

[dimensional]

Well arent blocking and parrying two different things? blocking to me seems just taking the attack head on usually as a last resort (because your in a tight formation for instance and cant move much or it just comes too quickly to react properly to) and basically going for damage mitigation so unless you have a beasting weapon (at least compared to your opponents) I wouldnt have thought its a good idea to block with your sword, even if you do block it effectively odds are its still going to cause some pain. I also suppose it depends where the blow comes from as to how you block it ideally I suppose you could angle your block and brace the blade to try and mitigate the force (as long as you judge their strike right) but I would say no matter what you blocked you would have to brace the blade so ill say the flat as it should help deflect the force better and im unaware if medieval swords were generally double edged or not but probably better to risk having the flat pushed back against you than the blade (or sharper edge, were these swords sharp or blunted at this time on the edge?)

As for parrying I would say generally the edge as you usually want to attack straight after a parry and the edge would set you up better for that as well as allowing greater force behind your parry but something like a thrust could be parried with the flat as there is little horizontal power in that strike and it would still set you up for an effective counter.

Handguards as far as im aware are usually just there so an opponent cant slide down your blade and cut your hand off and on some trapping the opponents blade as well if you tried blocking or parrying with them it probably wouldnt end well.

I would think that if all you have is a sword though evading would take priority especially if the opponents weapon is heavier than yours followed by deflection then parrying then blocking with weapon then blocking with body and trying to get them as they are getting you.

All of this is probably completely wrong though ok time to check out that spoiler.

EDIT: Ah the edge eh well I had considered those reasons you mentioned while writing my post and I discounted the ruining of the edge theory as I believe blocking is a last resort so you know block it anyway you can. But I discounted the additional advantages of using the edge insofar as having your arm and width of the blade behind it as I would have thought that when blocking you would want to get your body behind it not just your arm (which you could do either way) but the flat would allow easier deflection and easier retaliation as the blade would still be pointing toward your opponent not their blade (except dead vertical strikes which you would be probably be better off blocking with the edge). Guess that shows how much I know tho eh I will have to take your word for it as I know exactly bugger all about medieval swordfighting and very little about swordfighting in general. Actually im going to see how they block in Soul Calibur for some lulz should be interesting though I mean they already have Rapheal waving his rapier around like a slashing weapon the toon.

 

[Frankster]

From when I did fencing I was always told blocking with the flat edge was the best way to break a blade. And we were told to parry/dodge rather then block too.

And indeed I have broken a trainning blade this way, the blade was snapped in half ><
The fencing master wasn't too thrilled... So am inclined to agree that if you have to block, do it with the edge.

 

[Naeras]

What do you mean, "soft, vulnerable flesh"? I catch longswords with my bare fists, who needs to parry with a sword?!

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Blocking a sword with the Edge? Now I'm not U2's biggest fan, but that seems a little cruel...

Spoiler

This is actually a pretty cool topic, it's interesting to see how much our modern conceptions have warped how we think things like sword techniques were actually done in the medieval period. I never considered that blocking with a sword would be one of the things we actually have exagerated the use of as a viable technique.

 

[Whispering Cynic]

Unless you are a fan of broken swords, you must block with the edge. I have some training with medieval swords, and this is the first thing they taught us when they gave us swords. NEVER block with the flat part - consequences tend to be expensive.