Poll: Pro Wrestling for Non-Fans

[Trippy Turtle]

How did you get into wrestling? I wouldn't mind it if it wasn't 2 hours of them insulting each other at the start. I've probably got the wrong wrestling though.

 

[DracoSuave]

Fun fact:
People who claim wrestling is fake are wrong.
People who claim it's real are also wrong.

It occupies some very strange island between the two that even after all these years I don't know what to label it with.

It's a form of storytelling that uses live displays of physical athleticism in mockcombat as the medium for the narrative.

As for how to deal with the 'you know it's fake' crowd:

'Did you like the Avengers?'
'Yes.'
'You know it's fake right, superheroes don't actually exist and there was no actual fight between Loki+alien allies vs various assorted ubermensch?'
'Of course, that'd be stupid.'
'So what's the difference, fundamentally?'

Wrestling is low-brow dangerballet.

The only problem I've had with people saying the combat was fake is, it's not. Well not entirely.

It's fiction, in the same way that what stuntmen do is fiction.

It's dangerous, but the only thing real IS the danger. They aren't actually fighting--that's fiction.


That's probably a better word for it. What they do is a form of fiction.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I used to like WWF when i was a child but it was always a bit lame. Then many years later i got into TNA for a while but it turned into bullshit over wrestling which annoyed the hell out of me. Nowadays i just watch ROH occasionally but haven't seen any for quite a while.

Why do good wrestling companies always end up turning into boring soap operas?

 

[piinyouri]

Fun fact:
People who claim wrestling is fake are wrong.
People who claim it's real are also wrong.

It occupies some very strange island between the two that even after all these years I don't know what to label it with.

It's a form of storytelling that uses live displays of physical athleticism in mockcombat as the medium for the narrative.

As for how to deal with the 'you know it's fake' crowd:

'Did you like the Avengers?'
'Yes.'
'You know it's fake right, superheroes don't actually exist and there was no actual fight between Loki+alien allies vs various assorted ubermensch?'
'Of course, that'd be stupid.'
'So what's the difference, fundamentally?'

Wrestling is low-brow dangerballet.

The only problem I've had with people saying the combat was fake is, it's not. Well not entirely.

It's fiction, in the same way that what stuntmen do is fiction.

It's dangerous, but the only thing real IS the danger. They aren't actually fighting--that's fiction.


That's probably a better word for it. What they do is a form of fiction.

I can agree with that.

The focus for me isn't on the violence anyway(Unless you're an ECW fan), but rather the stories, characters, and athletic and technical prowess of the wrestlers themselves.

I love watching Daniel Bryan work. Just...damn.
Not a fan of his new heel gimmick though.

 

[SadakoMoose]

How did you get into wrestling? I wouldn't mind it if it wasn't 2 hours of them insulting each other at the start. I've probably got the wrong wrestling though.

Well if you watch any of the videos I've posted on pages 1-2, then you'll find that you've both got the right and wrong kind of wrestling.
On one hand, yes we are talking about pro wrestling.
But also, it's a LOT more than talking.
Anyway:
During the late 90's, one of the biggest periods in pro wrestling history, I actually couldn't stand the stuff. Why? I had never actually watched it, and the only exposure I had received was through the mean kids at school that used to pick on me, all of whom loved it. This was how I felt until around age 13 when, while flipping through the channels trying to get to sleep, I saw a short but very surprising march between Sonjay Dutt and Jay Lethal. It blew my mind! Up until then I had roughly the same ideas about pro wrestling. I never knew how exciting it could be to watch! Honestly, if it had been all insults and posturing followed by weak action, I'd have never watched. Shortly after, I discovered more good stuff online, specifically I discovered a long standing connection between pro wrestling and anime. The man in the video below is Tiger Mask. His gimmick comes from a manga. There's also Jushin Liger, yet another wrestler that now overshadows the anime that he's based on. Oh, and Kinnikuman is ok too.
Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid, the match that made pro wrestling my favorite thing in the world.
And it just went from there.

 

[DracoSuave]

Fun fact:
People who claim wrestling is fake are wrong.
People who claim it's real are also wrong.

It occupies some very strange island between the two that even after all these years I don't know what to label it with.

It's a form of storytelling that uses live displays of physical athleticism in mockcombat as the medium for the narrative.

As for how to deal with the 'you know it's fake' crowd:

'Did you like the Avengers?'
'Yes.'
'You know it's fake right, superheroes don't actually exist and there was no actual fight between Loki+alien allies vs various assorted ubermensch?'
'Of course, that'd be stupid.'
'So what's the difference, fundamentally?'

Wrestling is low-brow dangerballet.

The only problem I've had with people saying the combat was fake is, it's not. Well not entirely.

It's fiction, in the same way that what stuntmen do is fiction.

It's dangerous, but the only thing real IS the danger. They aren't actually fighting--that's fiction.


That's probably a better word for it. What they do is a form of fiction.

I can agree with that.

The focus for me isn't on the violence anyway(Unless you're an ECW fan), but rather the stories, characters, and athletic and technical prowess of the wrestlers themselves.

I love watching Daniel Bryan work. Just...damn.
Not a fan of his new heel gimmick though.

Pfff.

I'm a Canadian. You give a good worker a heel gimmick and we'll mark no matter what. We're odd that way.

Either that or be William Regal. No matter how bastardly that guy got or insulting or asshattish we just ended up loving him more.

Yeah. We're bizarro land.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Fun fact:
People who claim wrestling is fake are wrong.
People who claim it's real are also wrong.

It occupies some very strange island between the two that even after all these years I don't know what to label it with.

It's a form of storytelling that uses live displays of physical athleticism in mockcombat as the medium for the narrative.

As for how to deal with the 'you know it's fake' crowd:

'Did you like the Avengers?'
'Yes.'
'You know it's fake right, superheroes don't actually exist and there was no actual fight between Loki+alien allies vs various assorted ubermensch?'
'Of course, that'd be stupid.'
'So what's the difference, fundamentally?'

Wrestling is low-brow dangerballet.

The only problem I've had with people saying the combat was fake is, it's not. Well not entirely.

It's fiction, in the same way that what stuntmen do is fiction.

It's dangerous, but the only thing real IS the danger. They aren't actually fighting--that's fiction.


That's probably a better word for it. What they do is a form of fiction.

I can agree with that.

The focus for me isn't on the violence anyway(Unless you're an ECW fan), but rather the stories, characters, and athletic and technical prowess of the wrestlers themselves.

I love watching Daniel Bryan work. Just...damn.
Not a fan of his new heel gimmick though.

Pfff.

I'm a Canadian. You give a good worker a heel gimmick and we'll mark no matter what. We're odd that way.

Either that or be William Regal. No matter how bastardly that guy got or insulting or asshattish we just ended up loving him more.

Yeah. We're bizarro land.

There are so many ways to work with that.
How about a heel whose gimmick is that he hates wrestling, and is only in for the fame. So he never does good technical wrestling and relies entirely on cheating and uses the fact that he makes more money for doing less to get away with it.
It'd be like a cruel parody of the Rock, but played straight!
captcha: Carry On
Oh god, I just watched the second part of the Art Wrestling interview with Regal...

 

[excalipoor]

People hear "fake" and assume that's all it is. Maybe I like wrestling because it's more of a show than a competition, and I just don't have a competitive bone in my body. But anyone who puts these guys down by dismissing what they do as make-believe doesn't know what they're talking about. Personally I began to enjoy wrestling much more after I embraced the fact that it's not "real," instead of trying to pretend that it is. I like watching the people behind the characters. I like knowing how things work and realizing that these people are actually busting their asses, instead of looking at them and wondering what sort of sleight of hand was used where.

I enjoy technical wrestling much more than pure brawling, and most storylines will have me pulling my hair in anger at how bad they are, but the best moments in wrestling for me are those with a mix of reality and fiction.

Spoiler: Here's a promo Mark LoMonaco did a week back. To anyone not familiar with the man and his history in the business, it probably looks like your average shoot-your-mouth-off pissing contest entry.

Spoiler: So what happened in that match?

He lost.

Spoiler: But wait! He got a rematch!

He lost that too. And he of course knew he would when he shot this promo. But this is a 20-year veteran of the business who completely reinvented himself in the past few years, and he believes he deserves a minute at the top. I agree with him, but TNA creative apparently didn't. He's getting old, probably doesn't have too many years left in him, so you can understand his frustration.

Spoiler: And another. Say what you will about WWE or Chris Benoit, this moment is just beautiful. If you have seen any of his promos, you know that Benoit couldn't fake emotion like that to save his life.

Title belts aren't just handed out to whoever. The champion may not be the best wrestler around, but that doesn't mean they don't have to work for it. The champion is the top guy of the promotion, the guy that fills the seats, and to be that guy you need to prove yourself to the audience, the locker room, and the creative staff, as well as have a great array of talents. Either all that, or just the right look...

Then there's the crowd. It's similar to live music: sure, it's probably not going to sound as good as it does on your headphones, but a good audience can make the experience magic. And this is coming from someone who generally dislikes crowds. Though I do get uncomfortable when the crowd gets bloodthirsty, or boos an injured heel (kayfabe or not). That's just a dick move. I like it better when the guys in the ring can put on a show without destroying each other.

 

[TheCrapMaster]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

 

[piinyouri]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

The two wrestlers entering the ring know who is intended to win and lose, and if they are talented enough, that's all they know.
From there they work the match out with each other. If there is going to be a chair or something similiar involved they both know it before hand as well.
They are free to do as they wish, though the match is almost always ended by one or the others finisher.(but not usually until you have about 2 near fall pins) Getting people psyched up is the name of the game, and nothing does it better than having a heel almost pin a face. (Heel = bad guy, face = good guy)
Thing is, not everyone is as professional as the next. Sometimes you get guys, especially young guys, you don't want to end the match with a lose on their side, and keep the match going after it's time to end.
Sometimes one guy may chop a guy in the chest a little harder that what the other guy thought was necessary, and then you have a slightly more real fight. (But this is not really what you want to happen)

The belt titles are all chooses by the promotions leader or president, in the case of WWE, Vince McMahaon. Anytime it trades hands, it's because management thinks it needs to.

 

[DracoSuave]

There are so many ways to work with that.
How about a heel whose gimmick is that he hates wrestling, and is only in for the fame. So he never does good technical wrestling and relies entirely on cheating and uses the fact that he makes more money for doing less to get away with it.
It'd be like a cruel parody of the Rock, but played straight!

We'd love that guy too.

Eddy Guerrero, yo.

 

[Powereaver]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

 

[SadakoMoose]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

 

[Powereaver]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

oh right.. didnt notice that earlier.. guess i had a brainfade.. i do approve of the addition of Kotaro at the front though!

 

[SadakoMoose]

The Lack of Kobashi from Sadako disappoints me when he calls himself a fan

EDIT :- http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Wrestling-and-MMA-for-all <- i do suggest the Pro Wrestling User Group for anyone here who considers themselves fans.. we usually have a good enough time in there.. when we can be bothered!

You'll notice that on page two, I posted the backdrop driver of death.

oh right.. didnt notice that earlier.. guess i had a brainfade.. i do approve of the addition of Kotaro at the front though!

Yeah, he's one of my fave NOAH guys. KENTA is up there too, alongside Ricky Marvin and Aoki Atsushi.

 

[Powereaver]

Your lack of Katsuhiko Nakajima disappoints me.... sure hes technically Diamond Ring but hes a former 2 time GHC Jr Champ

 

[SadakoMoose]

I wanna know how a match works, is it with points that counts or who the crowd cheers the most for? Because as we all know its not "real fighting", i dont have anything against wrestling, just wondering how the matches work. Because they probably train alot before a match on wich moves they are gonna use before a match and etc.

So my biggest question is, are they free to do what they want under a match but they train before a match so the wrestlers know how to "react" to being tossed around from some signals, or is it just hard practice and remember from start to finish?

Seeing there are "world champions" and such it would be intresting to know.

Im from Sweden so i havent realy encountered much wrestling in my life .

I know that pinyouri already kind of answered this question, but there are some things I'd like to add.
Many old school pro wrestlers (Funk Brothers, The Destroyer, Billy Robinson etc.) would never plan their matches. They had become so acclimated to wrestling that it was second nature to them, and so if you told them what the ending to a match was and how long you wanted them to wrestle, they could just go out there and do it. Once, and this is a bit of a legend, Dory Funk Jr. had a half hour long title defense without saying a single word to the other guy.

Over time, some wrestlers come to know each other well enough that they can have fantastic matches with little planning. Such as Rey Misterio Jr. and the late Eddie Guerrero.

Others, like the late Randy Savage, could usually bust out one of their common routines for normal matches, but when it came time for a pay per view or other BIG event, he'd plan everything meticulously. His match v. Ricky Steamboat at Wrestlemania 3 is a testament to his planning skill.

Sometimes you call these people "Routine Men". Theses are wrestlers who have a series of moves that they're competent with, and see no need to innovate or try anything new. It's VERY easy to wrestle a Routine man, and some of the biggest stars from the US have been that way.
Notice, I said biggest STARS, not the BEST wrestlers.

So yeah, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

ps:
I noticed that you were a Swedish gentleman! It's an honest shame that there is so little about Sweden's pro wrestling history on the internet, because I'd love to direct you to some. You'd be surprised how many Europeans have no idea that there's native produced pro wrestling in their countries! Chances are that you may have to go somewhere else in Europe to see locally produced and owned pro wrestling.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Your lack of Katsuhiko Nakajima disappoints me.... sure hes technically Diamond Ring but hes a former 2 time GHC Jr Champ

Given how much I like his kicks, you'd think I'd have put him in earlier.

 

[Kragg]

Sometimes you call these people "Routine Men". Theses are wrestlers who have a series of moves that they're competent with, and see no need to innovate or try anything new. It's VERY easy to wrestle a Routine man, and some of the biggest stars from the US have been that way.
Notice, I said biggest STARS, not the BEST wrestlers.

So yeah, if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask!

that is actually pretty interesting, could you give like a dozen or so examples of the WWE roster atm so i can sorta see who and what you mean? ^^

ow and if you follow the stuff on WWE, could you give a summary of everything that happened from last wrestlemania till now? ive been out of it (its gotten to be a habit for me to watch it when i catch it, but its on eurosport here and their programming is finicky, i might miss out on a week or 2 then nothing for a month etc)