Poll: Prostitution
- Thread starter Typhusoid
- Start date
Recommended Videos
ok your not seeing my point.LostInTheCosmos said:
everything you say here is true, but you have stoped too soon to see what im saying clearly.
lets try it this way, do you think that God CANT see the end from the begining? that God didnt know BEFORE he created the Universe that he would put Adam in it and that Adam would fall? im not saying that Adam lacked free will and that it was Gods fait that he would eat the Apple. what im saying is that God created the whole system of the Universe, Adam, and the Apple, when he COULD have created prof plumb in the study with a pipe wrench get my meaning?
God could have creaed a system of life that didnt involve any such thing as testing with an Apple, or a fall, or a path back to Him for man, at a bare minimum he could have simply not added the tree to the Garden in the first place, no apple, no fall, he could have simply removed free will totaly from Man and surrounded him with trees and Adam would have starved to death before he ate an apple from any of them.
but he chose to set up the begining in such a way as there was an Adam, there was free will, and there was a tree that would cause the fall. the 'test' is in fact what Adam would chose to do, the NATURE (details) of the test isnt whats importiant, the importiance is in what Adam DID (or DIDNT do).
life is like that. the Nature of your life isnt whats importiant the 'test' is what you DO (or dont do) in any given situation. every day all us billons of Adams have before us uncounted Apples with a chance to eat them or refuse, what God cares about is our Choice not the color of the apple or the size and shape of the Adam in question.
for me, all these moral questions i see as simply a long string of apples, and the only question i have to really answer is do i eat it or not. not wether i should become the apple police and run around telling others what to do with THEIR apples. thats between them and God as mine is between God and myself.
now this doesnt exclude helping people in my life with their choices or them helping me with mine, if your in my life we can share a common apple tree and can and do make decisions together about wether or not we eat. but at the bottom line we each eat (or not) alone.
God doesnt expect me to stop others from eating Apples, he may expect me to help them as best i can with the decision but the ultimate test that he gave Adam is still in full effect with his sons, the choice to eat or not is still in each individual in each situation and no one but OURSELVES are responcable for the final choice.
the only thing that matters is the choice. do you trust God and do it his way or not?
there is loads of other things that could be talked about here. but at its core this is what i believe about the nature and relationship between man and God. its not complicated, it doesnt require years of study and thousands of books and long winded theorys. its very simple.
i trust that God has a plan when it comes to dealing with moral issues like prostitution. God has placed before that hooker an Apple tree, the choice to eat is up to her. im not responsable for her choice, if God wants ME involved he will cause my steps to bring me into contact with her, then we will share the same tree but again each choice to EAT even then is a personel individual choice. i COULD simply stop that hooker from eating her apple by holding a gun to her head or putting her in jail, but then IM just eating my OWN apple by doing violence to her, im refusing her the chance to take part in Gods grand plan, God cares much more about her own choice than he does in how well i can dream up ways to take that choice away from her, im not only not helping her by refusing to let her make her own chocies im HURTING myself by getting between God and her and sticking my nose into something that is between God and her.
that isnt to say we cant help her, or that that we shouldnt even try. but the nature of the help must be education NOT force. she MUST face the choice and decide what to do about it all by herself. simply refusing to let her decide at all isnt what God wants. God doesnt WANT a policy of law forbiding prostitution God wants the prostitute AND her customer to decide of their own free will to NOT do it.
thats my views anyhow.
Aw come off it. I am religious too, maybe not Christian but religious none the less, and even I can't fathom an almighty being who really gives a shit about whether some hairless monkey (AKA-Human) has a quick ten minute roll around in a bed with some stranger and then parts with a few bucks afterwards.Wyatt said:
I mean... what's the big deal?
Yes, the introduction of laws against whatever social faux pas is in the current headlines has worked well in the past; in fact I have yet to hear of any crime ever getting committed ever. While that is a completely retarded statement, the mere act of illegalisation of any act will do nothing to prevent its occurrence, it will just introduce yet more people into the legal system, without being too liberal, help the people in this situation instead of spending ridiculous amounts of money attempting to prevent it.
I don't disagree with anything you said in your post. The point I make is that we all have certain roles and responsibilities.Wyatt said:
As a father, I have the responsibility to raise my kids. This means distinguishing between certain mistakes I have a duty of protecting my children, certain mistakes that they have to learn on their own, and certain mistakes wherein I have to remove my child for fear of them hurting themselves or others.
I think we both would agree that they may need to touch the hot pot to learn a lesson, but certainly don't let them drink the bleach. And we put them in timeout if they hit someone else.
My assertion is that governance is an extension of that. There are certain immoral acts that a ruler must tolerate for the sake of not causing greater evils. There are certain immoral acts that you outright prevent. And there are certain immoral acts that it is necessary to put someone in "time out" to prevent others from getting hurt. To neglect to do so is remiss in one's duties.
The assertion I disagree with you is that God is not completely permissible as some of your statements may lead me to believe. Our real disagreement is whether or not prostitution should be a tolerated immorality for the sake of not causing greater evils, or if it is something that requires "time out."
As a private citizen, there is only so much I can do. But this thread is expressing an opinion on what good governance should do and would be remiss if it neglected its duties to do so.
LostInTheCosmos said:
annnnnd BLAM now we come to the dead on balls center of the argument.
my government isnt my parent. and the only RULER i accept is God Himself. i tolerate a government.
your point about what your dutys as a parent are is well taken, i point out though that there comes a point when your child now becomes responcable for their own lives. your duty to love that child never ends and you shouldnt ever stop trying to help them and guild them but your authority OVER them ends at a certian age.
if you relize this to be true then why on earth would you think that if a parents authority over a child ends that the government of all things should pick up where parents stop?
your notion that government should replace parents in authority over everyones lives is wrong. and whats worse it wont work, children rebel against parents almost too a person, you think that a child that wont accept parental authority will somehow grow up to respect a government? hell most people i know, myself included fight with God Himself about control over their own lives and hes the Master of the universe.
no my friend , this is where we will part company and will ALLWAYS part company, governments arent parents. you do relize that entire wars, whole populations, have been killed throughout mankinds history whenever a government gets this notion into their heads that they are parents to those they govern, thats the very basic ideal behind democracy. that the PEOPLE decide for THEMSELVES how they choose to live.
sounds to me like you would rather have a King than a President and a Crown council than a congress. im happy to say that we dont accept this in America (yet) and as long as i have breath id fight this to death. My freedom isnt up for debate, My life is just that , MINE, and the only ruler i will ever answer too is God.
*gets down off my soap box*
a lil the worse for all the flag waving death befor dishonor ending, but it sums up what we are really talking about very well i think.
No He-Man is.Wyatt said:
On Topic: If you legalise prostitution it can be much more easily controlled, regulated, taxed and prostitution rates will lower, this is the same situation with illegal drugs.
FALSE! BLASPHEMER!!!!!!hypothetical fact said:
HE-MAN is "A" Master of the Universe, not "THE".
Please refer to this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masters_of_the_Universe] wiki to be corrected and re-educated. DO NOT let me see you misrepresenting HE-MAN or any other Master of the Universe on these forums again or I will report you.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARN-ED!
LMAO, funny thing is, as i was typing that phrase that very though about He-Man poped into my head. i almost didnt use it for this reason. but i thought too myself, "naaa no one around here is old enough to recall He-Man" and it would never come up.
glad too see we have not 1 or even two but 3 old codgers around reading this, doesnt make me feel so old now.
glad too see we have not 1 or even two but 3 old codgers around reading this, doesnt make me feel so old now.
That is a given.Wyatt said:
Let's stop for a moment and think about the implications of this. Let's say your adult daughter or son becomes a murderer. Is it not your duty as a parent to stop them? Even forcibly if need be? I think that you and I will agree that no matter the age of your child there are certain things that a parent must do even if their child is an adult.
Governance is not a replacement of parenthood, but it extends its rights from it. This is why many people look to the government in such a light - bailout, hand outs, freebies, etc. I will agree with you that this is a distortion of government where it tries to replace parenting.
But you also recognize that government is also necessary. There are times when welfare is necessary. When government must take children away from abusive parents. When government must put rapists and murderers in jail.
Well, for one - the United States is not a Democracy. It is a Representative Government with a Congress as well as an Executive Branch. This was created precisely because the Founding Fathers of the United States recognized the problem of mob rule. They both created a limited government, but also recognized the problem of uninformed people ruling by their passions.
The United States government was founded on balancing these principles of regulating the passions of people and limiting the power of a government that may impose too much on how people may freely choose to live. I make the analogy of parenting to be the same - balancing the mob rule of children with limiting the authority of the parent to allow children to be self-determined.
A single person can kill whole populations of people in as much as a mob can choose to slaughter millions. People forget that Iran is not a dictatorship, but a Democracy. So who are we to say that Democracy is always right and that people can't vote for oppression (like many pro-gay people are saying out in California)?
I think that the US Constitution is one of the finest documents ever created by man. But it is just that - created by man. Ultimately I do believe in a King and a Crown to rule over me. But that is because I am a Christian, and my King is my Lord. But as things are on Earth, I believe that the US Constitution and following its principles is the best form of government there is on the planet.
But even as it says in the US Constitution, that the government is created to "establish justice" and to "ensure domestic tranquility." The Founding Fathers themselves would have argued against Prostitution as something that is an unjust practice and exploitation of women, as well as a disruptive force in society.
However, I will agree that as a culture, we have grown to accept that selling oneself is a commonplace practice. And as such, many laws that were illegal then are no longer enforced now, such as the "crimes against nature" laws.
I will say that as a whole, our society is much less cohesive because families are no longer staying together. Legalizing prostitution is only one more step in that direction. But it is only one more nail in the coffin. It wasn't the first nail. Nor is it going to be the last.