Poll: rape worse than murder?

[rasta111]

Wasn't that implied? Unquestionably dead in my opinion. Mileage may vary, obviously a rape victim has a better chance at recovery than a rapist, same as a murderer has a significantly better chance... Do not question the pyschological ramifications in all cases.

Wait... you agree that murder is the worst?

I may have entirely missed your posts intention then. I'm just going to back away slowly like nothing happened...

It's an interesting subject actually, what is murder in the long run anyway? Can one person really take the life of another? I consider that to be one of the greatest illusions of all.

What I actually said was being stone cold dead seems better to me than being a victim of a far more heinous crime in the long run. Precisely what constitutes murder as an act is another topic entirely. One might say a totally spiritual issue as opposed to a literal one. No one calls soldiers criminals but assassins and terrorists on the other hand... Yeah points for another topic...

Personally I don't feel the need to discuss it as I consider it only one question which I myself already know the answer to. Do you fear death?

 

[totheendofsin]

I think they are incomparable and to attempt to compare the two is insulting to victims of both.

 

[Lightknight]

I think they are incomparable and to attempt to compare the two is insulting to victims of both.

I think you can discuss the merits of them as both being horrifically negative acts. However, I think that in this scenario to not place murder as the higher would actually be equivalent of telling rape victims that they were better off dead. It should be more offensive for that reason than anything else. To claim that they are ruined and now all value they offer or that life offers is gone.

Regardless, "insulting" a group is not a reason to drop discussion of a topic.

It's an interesting subject actually, what is murder in the long run anyway? Can one person really take the life of another? I consider that to be one of the greatest illusions of all.

Yes, a person can take the life of another. No illusions. It can and does happen. Even if you believe in something like reincarnation the person's life was still taken, the vase was still shattered.

Personally I don't feel the need to discuss it as I consider it only one question which I myself already know the answer to. Do you fear death?

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

 

[rasta111]

I think they are incomparable and to attempt to compare the two is insulting to victims of both.

I think you can discuss the merits of them as both being horrifically negative acts. However, I think that in this scenario to not place murder as the higher would actually be equivalent of telling rape victims that they were better off dead. It should be more offensive for that reason than anything else. To claim that they are ruined and now all value they offer or that life offers is gone.

Regardless, "insulting" a group is not a reason to drop discussion of a topic.

It's an interesting subject actually, what is murder in the long run anyway? Can one person really take the life of another? I consider that to be one of the greatest illusions of all.

Yes, a person can take the life of another. No illusions. It can and does happen. Even if you believe in something like reincarnation the person's life was still taken, the vase was still shattered.

Personally I don't feel the need to discuss it as I consider it only one question which I myself already know the answer to. Do you fear death?

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore... Consider the butterfly effect.

 

[the December King]

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

I seem to recall you being quite upset when others were dismissing your Creationist points of view out of hand, instead of engaging in dialogue. It's a shame that you seem to dismiss the ideas of others just as quickly, just because they don't share your point of view.

 

[rasta111]

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

I seem to recall you being quite upset when others were dismissing your Creationist points of view out of hand, instead of engaging in dialogue. It's a shame that you seem to dismiss the ideas of others just as quickly, just because they don't share your point of view.

... Who are you and why are you stating the obvious obliviously?... I'm not the one who wants to discuss 'the merits' of 'being horrific'... I'd appreciate it if you all stop labeling me as things you clearly don't understand also.

 

[the December King]

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

I seem to recall you being quite upset when others were dismissing your Creationist points of view out of hand, instead of engaging in dialogue. It's a shame that you seem to dismiss the ideas of others just as quickly, just because they don't share your point of view.

... Who are you and why are you stating the obvious obliviously?... I'm not the one who wants to discuss 'the merits' of 'being horrific'... I'd appreciate it if you all stop labeling me as things you clearly don't understand also.

What does it matter who I am? Asking for clarification shouldn't be met with such disdain...

However, and I mean this: I'm sorry you think someone has labeled you.

 

[rasta111]

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

I seem to recall you being quite upset when others were dismissing your Creationist points of view out of hand, instead of engaging in dialogue. It's a shame that you seem to dismiss the ideas of others just as quickly, just because they don't share your point of view.

... Who are you and why are you stating the obvious obliviously?... I'm not the one who wants to discuss 'the merits' of 'being horrific'... I'd appreciate it if you all stop labeling me as things you clearly don't understand also.

What does it matter who I am? Asking for clarification shouldn't be met with such disdain...

However, and I mean this: I'm sorry you think someone has labeled you.

I don't think you understand the things you're saying... I asked you who you think you are because you're disdainfully butting in and labeling me at the same time... I'm now being disdainful as you're acting like you said nothing at all... I say again... Oblivious.

 

[Lightknight]

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore... Consider the butterfly effect.

I'm not sure what you're objecting to here? The word merit has more than one definition, including:

"the intrinsic rights and wrongs of a case, outside of any other considerations."

That is the legal definition of the term and the one I was using. The "merits" of a case being tried are the individual components being evaluated. This term is regularly used in the context of evaluating whether something is good or bad. This is not to be confused with the definition of merit that means something is deserving of reward.

So forgive me, but I'm uncertain why you object here. Is there a bit of a language barrier here? I am in NO way saying that there is any good in either of those actions.

I'm saying it's possible to discuss the elements of each act and evaluate them individually to discuss a relative level of harm being done.

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

Thanks, I too am confused with what part is being objected to here. I think they're thinking I'm talking about "merits" as in good things rather than the legal definition that is commonly used in the context of discussions and debates that pertains to evaluating the goodness or badness of the components of the case.

 

[rasta111]

Spoiler: The Butterfly Effect

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

Consider the consequences of each action, each word, each deed on a larger scale and then consider why I might object to the things happening all over this forum. Try speaking outside your own echo chambers for a change?

 

[Lightknight]

Spoiler: The Butterfly Effect

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state.

Consider the consequences of each action, each word, each deed on a larger scale and then consider why I might object to the things happening all over this forum. Try speaking outside your own echo chambers for a change?

What I mean by asking what you object to is: What do you think I mean by what I said?

And yes, I know what the butterfly effect is.

What I'm trying to convey to you is that you may have misinterpreted a term I used due to it having more than one definition.

 

[the December King]

I don't fear it. It's going to happen someday. But were it impending I would move to avoid it.

Did you just says 'merits of them both as being horrific...' Yeah, I'm definitely not listening to you anymore...

How can you say that murder is not horrific? The taking of another life... are you objecting to the term 'merit'?

I seem to recall you being quite upset when others were dismissing your Creationist points of view out of hand, instead of engaging in dialogue. It's a shame that you seem to dismiss the ideas of others just as quickly, just because they don't share your point of view.

... Who are you and why are you stating the obvious obliviously?... I'm not the one who wants to discuss 'the merits' of 'being horrific'... I'd appreciate it if you all stop labeling me as things you clearly don't understand also.

What does it matter who I am? Asking for clarification shouldn't be met with such disdain...

However, and I mean this: I'm sorry you think someone has labeled you.

I don't think you understand the things you're saying... I asked you who you think you are because you're disdainfully butting in and labeling me at the same time... I'm now being disdainful as you're acting like you said nothing at all... I say again... Oblivious.

Oblivious would be to allow you to continue to write without asking for clarification.

I suppose I should state this before you get more upset, and I'll use your own font: I didn't label you. You did express opinions recently that could be interpreted as parallel with 7th Day Adventists beliefs. If you aren't one, then I would totally suggest looking into it.

But back to the topic: To think that the hereafter is waiting for you to 'see through the illusion' is all fine and dandy, but since this life, as we know it, and cannot see beyond, ends with such a horrible act, in my mind murder is the worse of the two.

 

[rasta111]

Wow... Merit means merit and horrific means horrific. These two words cannot be used together as they form a contradiction that you are spreading hence me bringing up the butterfly effect which you'd also realise relates to everything else you've said along with a lot of other things happening all around if you stepped outside your own echo chamber for long enough to realise the deepest implications... But I'm about done explaining myself when all you're going to do is sidestep relevance to others and simply bask in the sound of your own voice.

captcha: all growns up... No captcha... Just no

 

[Lightknight]

Wow... Merit means merit and horrific means horrific. These two words cannot be used together as they form a contradiction that you are spreading hence me bringing up the butterfly effect which you'd also realise also relates to everything else you've said along with a lot of other things happening all around if you stepped outside your own echo chamber for long enough to realise the deepest implications... But I'm about done explaining myself when all you're going to do is sidestep relevance to others and simply bask in the sound of your own voice.

captcha: all growns up... No captcha... Just no

The person who is in an echo chamber has their own preconceived notions and nothing to challenge them. Here, we see you insisting that a definition can only mean what you mean when to the rest of the world, especially in a legal setting, the term means exactly what I said it means within this particular context.

Dictionary defition linked and cited below:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/merit
"merits, the inherent rights and wrongs of a matter, as a lawsuit, unobscured by procedural details, technicalities, personal feelings, etc.: "

Even consider the verb "merits". "He is found guilty based on the merits of his actions." That is a totally legitimate use of the term since the term merit is all about the state of "deserving" and what is deserved can be punishment too.

The "merits" of something are merely the qualities that are deserving of praise or punishment. In this case, I think we can all agree that the merits of murder are all negative an deserving of punishment.

Now, the specific use I was employing is along the legal sides. The "merits" of a case. These are the facts of the matter.

 

[rasta111]

OK one more time... Stop sidestepping the issues presented... Of course murder has no merit, something horrific cannot have merit, maybe in the rest of your world but not mine... Look closer at what a murder is. Look deeper at what's been said. Why is it OK for one person to kill and not another?

Horrific is exciting, terrifying even, not meritorious.

Merit is something outside of yourself, greater than yourself.

The only thing between merit and horror is bravery.

 

[chuckman1]

Don't care how you will twist my words i think rape is more morally reprehensible. The rapist is usually worse. Murder can be justified but rape never can.

 

[the December King]

Don't care how you will twist my words i think rape is more morally reprehensible. The rapist is usually worse. Murder can be justified but rape never can.

I certainly can't tell you you're wrong, nor would I- it certainly does seem more reprehensible, and I can't think of a way it could ever be seen as justified, at least by others, at least in a civil or modern society.

I've never been raped, nor raped anyone. Nor have I been murdered, nor did the murdering. In my opinion, though, murder is the more horrific, because it is a definitive line that cannot be coped with by the victim- rape takes away the victim's freedom and agency, and yes, the act is deplorable. But murder takes away that agency permanently. Again, that's just how I see it, and I certainly don't mean to offend those that have had to deal with rape, directly or otherwise, or murder indirectly. Just an opinion.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Don't care how you will twist my words i think rape is more morally reprehensible. The rapist is usually worse. Murder can be justified but rape never can.

Well we can mean more than one thing when we say one is worse than the other.

From the perspective of how much it harmed the victim, no one recovers from murder. In that way you can say murder is worse.

On the other hand we can look at it in terms of judging the perpetrator. In that case rape may seem worse since it cannot be excused in any way by the motives of the rapist, while it is possible for one to be a murderer whose motives can justify it somewhat.

So does it not depend on what we mean by worse as one can be worse than the other in certain aspects but not others?

 

[chuckman1]

Don't care how you will twist my words i think rape is more morally reprehensible. The rapist is usually worse. Murder can be justified but rape never can.

Well we can mean more than one thing when we say one is worse than the other.

From the perspective of how much it harmed the victim, no one recovers from murder. In that way you can say murder is worse.

On the other hand we can look at it in terms of judging the perpetrator. In that case rape may seem worse since it cannot be excused in any way by the motives of the rapist, while it is possible for one to be a murderer whose motives can justify it somewhat.

So does it not depend on what we mean by worse as one can be worse than the other in certain aspects but not others?

Of course. I believe most things are in the eye of the beholder. I meant in personal opinion what is worse, to me that meant more heinous. Many people interpreted it differently. Everyone is entitle to their opinion.

But the people who acted like rape isn't such a big deal, or that the victims are "exaggerating" yeah I think those people are ignorant. And it made them sound douchey "not you"

 

[Timeless Lavender]

Both of these crimes are very bad. Trying to make one of the crimes worse than other is really not a good idea to begin with. We should just accept the fact that these crimes damage the victims in different ways.