Poll: rape worse than murder?

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

While its difficult to sympathise with cold calculating murderers and repeat sex offenders there are other problems with the death penalty, miscarriages of justice happen. That's a cold hard fact, no emotional aspect or bleeding heart sympathy. Innocent people do get convicted of crimes they did not commit, cases of rape and murder have lead to false convictions and new evidence or a careful re-examination of the facts have exonerated the convicted person. Humans are not perfect and neither are investigative or court proceedings and mistakes happen and things can be overlooked, there are even some occasions were overzealous or malicious police officers or prosecutors are determined to see someone punished for a crime even to the extent of ignoring/excluding evidence or sometimes outright ignoring it.

When this happens a person that got a long or permanent custodial sentence can be released, try to make the most of their remaining years. Someone that was executed is gone, you cannot undo it. Often cases where the death penalty was carried out are never even re-examined, around three people a year have had their convictions overturned in the United States for the last forty years with an estimated 2000 overturned rape convictions in the last 25 years (although some portion of that are certainly rapists managing to squirm their way out of the conviction).

While the system isn't perfect, life sentences can also get paroles for serial killers and serial rapists if we're not careful. So it's really a losing proposition either way. Not to mention the damages the State usually ends up paying those wrongly convicted. I'd support full life sentences if prisons had some sort of way of paying back into society in a physical way by working the prisoners who are deemed not too much of a risk. That'd help pay for the prison, have the possibility of prisoners learning skills and having some in house currency, and provide some sort of goods to the population. Then I'd say let the prisoner's in house behaviour speak to weather or not their death sentence should be suspended. If they're productive and don't cause trouble, commute them to life.

 

[beastro]

They're too much different kinds of horrible to compare.

Still, rape boils my blood more.

 

[happyninja42]

Well the Escapist did nothing about that thread that had a video of a guy getting murdered in the OP, but posting a sexual picture will get you permabanned.

So here on the Escapist, plain old sex is far worse than murder. Rape must be a whole new level.

Well, the website is run out of the US, and the "Violence is ok, but Sexy stuff is a no no" is a pretty well established aspect of the popular culture. Not saying I agree with it, but it's pretty obvious that we don't mind showing violence compared to sex. Also I'm pretty sure there are some laws somewhere on the books that would crawl up the site's ass if they tried to start showing sex stuff compared to violent stuff.

Yeah it's just you think the bar for what violence you're allowed to show here would be set a little lower than murder. Like it's:

A video showing someone quite literally being murdered: Fantastic, breaks no rules.

Boobs: Permaban you sick freak.

It's just so absurd it's funny.

Oh I agree. If given the choice between showing people violence and sexy times, I'm going to pick sexy times personally.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

While the system isn't perfect, life sentences can also get paroles for serial killers and serial rapists if we're not careful. So it's really a losing proposition either way. Not to mention the damages the State usually ends up paying those wrongly convicted. I'd support full life sentences if prisons had some sort of way of paying back into society in a physical way by working the prisoners who are deemed not too much of a risk. That'd help pay for the prison, have the possibility of prisoners learning skills and having some in house currency, and provide some sort of goods to the population. Then I'd say let the prisoner's in house behaviour speak to weather or not their death sentence should be suspended. If they're productive and don't cause trouble, commute them to life.

Isn't this a good thing, though? Shouldn't prisons be about rehabilitation rather than punishment? If we're talking about greatest good. And there's plenty of life sentences without possibility for parole. Specifically for serial killers. Also, are we honestly entertaining indentured labour? I'm of the opinion that real jobs exist for those of whom live in the community. After all, the US has this very real problem. Every job you're giving to an inmate is one less job fulfilled by a person in the community. I shudder at the thought of a situation where a nation looking for cheap labour then decides to process more court cases with ever dwindling protocols as to assign and prove guilt.

Whilst education of inmates is a natural means to better the inmates and prepare them for the potentiality of release. But indentured labour to fulfill the role of free labour is a bad idea. Can anyone else say; 'Siberian gulag'?

 

[Abbyka]

Rape. When you murder someone, that's it, the end. Not much suffering unless it includes torture and even then it's much more short lived than surviving rape. Rape victims have to live the rest of their lives with that pain. Many have PTSD because of it. Not just that I fully believe that when someone rapes another person they basically destroy something key and essential about that person. The victim ends up feeling like they should be dead because there's this hole inside of them, a missing piece that used to be there but isn't now. You're dead inside but still breathing. Being raped can completely change who you are and that lasts for a lifetime. Even with therapy. I know some people who have been raped and it completely shapes who they are in a negative way. When you do something so deeply fucked up to someone that it takes away positive points of their personality you're quite simply the worst of the worst scum. I truly feel rapists will always do it again and shouldn't get a slap on the wrist. Life in prison, exactly what they sentenced their victim to in a way.

 

[Lightknight]

Let's see, death or a traumatic event that you can move forward from and live a meaningful life?

I'm unsure why it's even a question.

Rape. When you murder someone, that's it, the end. Not much suffering unless it includes torture and even then it's much more short lived than surviving rape. Rape victims have to live the rest of their lives with that pain. Many have PTSD because of it. Not just that I fully believe that when someone rapes another person they basically destroy something key and essential about that person. The victim ends up feeling like they should be dead because there's this hole inside of them, a missing piece that used to be there but isn't now. You're dead inside but still breathing. Being raped can completely change who you are and that lasts for a lifetime. Even with therapy. I know some people who have been raped and it completely shapes who they are in a negative way. When you do something so deeply fucked up to someone that it takes away positive points of their personality you're quite simply the worst of the worst scum. I truly feel rapists will always do it again and shouldn't get a slap on the wrist. Life in prison, exactly what they sentenced their victim to in a way.

Would you personally rather be murdered or raped and then go on to live the rest of your life?

No one is saying that they're not both terrible. But there's no coming back from murder. Rape victims regularly go on to live full and happy lives. It's a traumatic memory, yes, but the alternative is no life at all.

Better yet, to follow your logic does this mean a rape followed by a murder is somehow less bad than just a rape?

I have a feeling some rape victims would take a tremendous offense to people claiming that their death would have been preferable. It's one thing to say that rape is a terrible atrocity, it's quite another to say they would have been better off with a bullet to the skull.

 

[J Tyran]

While the system isn't perfect, life sentences can also get paroles for serial killers and serial rapists if we're not careful. So it's really a losing proposition either way. Not to mention the damages the State usually ends up paying those wrongly convicted. I'd support full life sentences if prisons had some sort of way of paying back into society in a physical way by working the prisoners who are deemed not too much of a risk. That'd help pay for the prison, have the possibility of prisoners learning skills and having some in house currency, and provide some sort of goods to the population. Then I'd say let the prisoner's in house behaviour speak to weather or not their death sentence should be suspended. If they're productive and don't cause trouble, commute them to life.

Although I know there are labour programs and inmate trustees in the US I don't the details, here in my own country there are systems like this in place. There are factory and farm prisons and most prisons have work available like cleaning, cooking, painting etc, nobody can be forced into working but they are offered incentives. They get paid a small amount of money each week (around £10s or so) and can earn additional privleges like extra visits, decorative cell items, TVs, DVD players and/or game consoles.

The farm prisons produce food that is distributed throughout the prison system and the factory prisons produce clothing, plastic cutlery and other plastic items like cups and hair combs, blankets and other day to day items as well as wood and metal working, welding, furniture making and machining and they go to other prisons and the NHS, a large degree of the day to day items in the prison system are made internally which helps reduce costs for the whole system.

The NHS also benefits from cheap day to day items, the inmates not only get paid but they get vocational training. An ex inmate thats a qualified injection moulding machine operator stands a better chance of getting a job than just an ex inmate.

 

[babinro]

Depends entirely on the victim.

If you're never able to move on after the fact then your remaining life may not be seen as worth it. I have a tough time understanding why rape leaves such lasting lifetime consequences in people but that's my own problem. If people who were raped decades ago would rather have been killed then I trust they know what they are talking about.

I'm sure others move on to live a relatively or completely 'normal' life as well.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This would depend. Rape is a form of torture, death is the end. Murder of course would be more severe than torture, however when one considers a " fate worse than death" you are referring to torture. If one is kept captive and raped repeatedly, that would be what many consider to be a fate worse than death. Depending on the situation, I would think murder to be worse than rape since there is always the possibility of rebuilding your life after rape, however that is not always the case. I do think they should hold the rapist responsible for the victims complications arising from rape. If the victim does not recover from the rape and then kills themselves due to the trauma, I do think they should hold the rapist responsible for their death. The Rapist should ALSO should be charged with murder if they gave the victim a sexually transmitted disease during the rape that will also result in their death or inability to have future children or relationships, as that is also what many may consider a " fate worse than death."

 

[balladbird]

Depends on if you mean in real life or in fiction. the OP seems to imply the former, but I'll cover both bases.

For real life, it's a little arbitrary to compare two horrific acts in some attempt to call one worse than the other. Both are heinous, and born from a variety of circumstances. I can't cheapen one by comparing it less severely to the other.


In fiction, while it's generally a matter of portrayal, rape tends to be a more unforgivable act for a character to perform than murder, to the point where a character who threatens or carries out the former usually meets certain death over the course of the story.

I can kind of see why the reaction in fiction works out that way, though. Depending on how it's portrayed, the act of murder in fiction can be seen as justified (self defense), tragic(revenge, crime of passion), or even something to celebrate by an audience (watching an atrocious villain meet his end.) A rape, however, can never be anything but terrible, regardless how a writer tries to frame it.

 

[Demagogue]

Murder... hands down. As others have mentioned, you can recover / grow stronger from rape. Once you've died it is game over, no more insert credits to play again.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

snip

Isn't this a good thing, though? Shouldn't prisons be about rehabilitation rather than punishment? If we're talking about greatest good. And there's plenty of life sentences without possibility for parole. Specifically for serial killers. Also, are we honestly entertaining indentured labour? I'm of the opinion that real jobs exist for those of whom live in the community. After all, the US has this very real problem. Every job you're giving to an inmate is one less job fulfilled by a person in the community. I shudder at the thought of a situation where a nation looking for cheap labour then decides to process more court cases with ever dwindling protocols as to assign and prove guilt.

Whilst education of inmates is a natural means to better the inmates and prepare them for the potentiality of release. But indentured labour to fulfill the role of free labour is a bad idea. Can anyone else say; 'Siberian gulag'?

The idea would be an optional program. Besides we're already over run in the respect to free/cheap labour with illegal aliens(not all of whom are central/south American either.) Also it wouldn't be "free labour" the innmates would be paid with a currency they can use at an in house shop, and the other part of the profits would be use to fund the prison, not pad corporate bank accounts. Plus as a state run institute, prisons would produce things that for the state, not for companies. Plus prison labour could be used to help feed the less fortunate. Also remember this, by robbing a prisoner of a chance to work, especially for pay, you also rob them of vocational training.

Education is never a bad thing for inmates, either, but remember this costs money. Most prisons, at least here in the US, simply can't afford to do that. A labour system could help at least lessen that burden, while at the same time giving prisoners access to some payment they can use to buy things.

A lot of prisons in the US used to have this thing especially in lower security prisons. But that exact and inherently false arguement you used is what's getting these programs shut down. Thus robbing the prisoners of a useful outlet for their energy, any hope to get rewarded for good behaviour and productiveness. Worst of all it robs prisoners of essentially all civic motivation and encourages them to either work out so they can fight, or sit on their dead rears all day.

Although I know there are labour programs and inmate trustees in the US I don't the details, here in my own country there are systems like this in place. There are factory and farm prisons and most prisons have work available like cleaning, cooking, painting etc, nobody can be forced into working but they are offered incentives. They get paid a small amount of money each week (around £10s or so) and can earn additional privleges like extra visits, decorative cell items, TVs, DVD players and/or game consoles.

The farm prisons produce food that is distributed throughout the prison system and the factory prisons produce clothing, plastic cutlery and other plastic items like cups and hair combs, blankets and other day to day items as well as wood and metal working, welding, furniture making and machining and they go to other prisons and the NHS, a large degree of the day to day items in the prison system are made internally which helps reduce costs for the whole system.

The NHS also benefits from cheap day to day items, the inmates not only get paid but they get vocational training. An ex inmate thats a qualified injection moulding machine operator stands a better chance of getting a job than just an ex inmate.

Actually what PaulH posted is getting our labour and trustee programs shuttered here in the US. But yeah that is essentially the point of what I was getting at, and what you described is what I'd like to see happen here.

 

[JayRPG]

I think rape is right up there with the absolute worst, most disgusting, despicable crimes anyone could ever commit, and if I had super powers I would spend the majority of my time murdering rapists so at best I'd be an anti-hero (my favourite kind!)

But I still think murder is worse, contrary to what I just said, I don't think there is anything more important than life. I have been slowly convincing myself that I will live forever, because there will be a breakthrough in life extension/immortality science in my lifetime, and I can't think of anything I'd want more than to live forever (despite most people's opinions being the opposite). So having life is just more important to me.

 

[happyninja42]

I have a feeling some rape victims would take a tremendous offense to people claiming that their death would have been preferable. It's one thing to say that rape is a terrible atrocity, it's quite another to say they would have been better off with a bullet to the skull.

Yeah, same here. Though according to some posters further up the thread, apparently some rape victims have stated they would prefer death to their life after rape. Maybe that's just shock+trauma+grief mixed with the aftermath of such a terrible event, and maybe they change their minds over time. Or maybe they didn't and stayed broken the rest of their lives. It's certainly possible. But given all the people who are able to move on after it, I think it's relatively safe to say that it's better to live than not.

 

[Shinkicker444]

I think they're both disgusting horrible acts. I think they should both be punished equally (not death sentence though, because dead is dead, when you're dead you aren't going to give two shits anymore no remorse or suffering - until we can definitely prove the existence of the afterlife at least). I think rape victims need more support than they get though.

 

[Abbyka]

snip

Yes I would rather be murdered. I am legit terrified of being raped. I honestly do not think I could ever recover from it. I've already had things happen to me in my past I am still not over(abusive relationship) that make moving on difficult. Rape would be enough to send me over the edge. It wouldn't "make me stronger", it would drive me insane. Not everyone has the ability to get stronger and move on. Not everyone is going to recover. Yeah, there are some people who are able to, and that is amazing. But most victims are traumatized their entire life and some really would prefer death. The emotions involved are horrible. Imagine being skinned alive and being left to suffer. That is what it is like in an emotional sense. Like I said, I know some rape victims, and many of them sometimes do feel like death would have been less painful. They're trying to move on but the wounds reopen. This is a form of torture to me. At least death ends that pain. Like it or not you're going to encounter people who don't like having to "move on" and do not have the strength required to. At least one of the people I know said it's like constantly walking on broken glass barefoot, but you have to keep going because there's no choice. Some days are better than others, obviously, but there is always more broken glass ahead.

 

[sonofliber]

I called a few murder victims to ask them if they would have been prefered to be raped instead, im still waiting for them to call back.


(In case the sarcasm was lost, yes murder is 100 times worst than rape, you can keep on living afetr rape not after been murder

 

[Scarim Coral]

Hard to say.

I mean the victim is still alived regardless of his or her mental state after the rape but on the other hand, the method of murder is not being dicuss. Was the cause of death quick and painless or did the victum suffer in one way or another pior to his or her death (like being torture or bleed to death from agonizing wound)? In saying if this was trial as murder was just stated then I guess tortue did not happened.

 

[WhiteNachos]

So in the United states I've noticed extreme leniency to rapists. 1 guy got parole after doing that to a 3 yr old.

One instance does not prove a trend (although I'd still like a source anyway).

We have the sex offenders list which fucks over rapists and other "sex offenders" in a lot of ways that really should be unconstitutional. We don't have similar lists for anyone else. Not murderers, not thieves, no one.

You can point to one guy getting parole and I can point to a hell of a lot more men getting long sentences in jail. Hell I can limit myself to only men who were later found not guilty and still have more than one.

And murder is definitely worse than rape. No question. It is theoretically possible to recover from a rape, not a murder. I don't know that there's an afterlife so as far as I'm concerned you have one life and nothing else. When faced with rape or death I'd choose rape unless it was some really extreme circumstance.

I kind of doubt all these people who act like rape will make you scarred for life and it's something you're guaranteed to NEVER recover from.