Poll: Religion and you

[Dele]

Since developement of technology is the only thing improving the standard of living in the long run the following equation is true: More fundies undermining science and logical reasoning = worse standard of living in the long run compared to an completely equal country with zero fundies. Therefore religion mostly works to make our lives worse off... Thanks a lot guys.

 

[James Raynor]

I'm currently a fence-sitter on whether God exists, and there's no help from everyoen I talk to, because it's always "You just have to believe you'll go to hell".

It's called pascals wager, it's one of the lamest arguments a theist can ever use to try to convince you that there is a god.

 

[GazJD]

On the contrary to what a lot of Atheists believe, Religion itself is not the problem in this world. No, religion is not the problem, Fanaticism is. A fanatic with an idea is the most dangerous thing in the world and I believe that the biggest Fanatic Factory is Religion.

Now having said that I personally think without any structured or established Religion the world would be safer. My main argument for this is like with any established social structure the general rule of thumb is "Size = Strength" and then "Might = Right". And when you get two big "Factions" which will no doubt have a few fanatics then a power struggle will ensue to gain superiority over the other. But if you allow people to believe what they want but ban outright any religious "massing", in my personal theory, will never get to a power struggle stage.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

On the contrary to what a lot of Atheists believe, Religion itself is not the problem in this world. No, religion is not the problem, Fanaticism is. A fanatic with an idea is the most dangerous thing in the world and I believe that the biggest Fanatic Factory is Religion.

Now having said that I personally think without any structured or established Religion the world would be safer. My main argument for this is like with any established social structure the general rule of thumb is "Size = Strength" and then "Might = Right". And when you get two big "Factions" which will no doubt have a few fanatics then a power struggle will ensue to gain superiority over the other. But if you allow people to believe what they want but ban outright any religious "massing", in my personal theory, will never get to a power struggle stage.

Not that I disagree with you in general I would just like to ask the question... what if there really wasn't any religion? Look at the atrocities commited by Pol Pot or Stalin. Two notable atheists. Look at the recent case of Pekka-Eric Auvinen. Religion gets the blame when a religious psycho murders a bunch of people but when atheists start oppressing or slaughtering it suddenly seems that "atheism had nothing to do with it!"

I think that if you are a complete bastard you will find an excuse. Some people are just sociopathic and it really doesn't matter if they are religious or atheist, they will do terrible things.

 

[GazJD]

Touche good sir. But also notable is the short list of Atheist Tyrants standing against religious (or ones who used religion at any rate) as a tool or reason. Its the fact that gods and the like are used as a reason that makes religious crimes more noticeable.

 

[k3v1n]

NO every religion is FAKE there is only ONE religion LET US ALL BOW BEFORE THE ALLMIGHTY MUSHROOM¡¡¡

seriously now, I share the same opinion, I'm agnostic but my close family and friends differ a lot from what I think, and it's really fun when we have debates which end up insulting each other for what we beleive in...good times, happy times ^^

 

[Ezekel]

Sigh.

You don't know that people will go to Hell, you simply believe they will. Huge world of difference there. Faith is not knowledge. Faith is acting on a belief without the knowledge to prove said belief as fact. There is nothing wrong with that. We all rely on faith of one sort or another just to make it through each day. However, acting as if faith and knowledge are the same is the same as acting out of ignorance and bigotry. You've made your choice to follow Christ, allow other people to make their choices not to.

So I am supposed to believe that people are going to hell, then wave them along on there merry way. Doesn't sound all that nice. If I believe that there is only one path to God and salvation it is my right and privilege to share it with others. To not do so is to hate them. Does this mean I force it on them? No, it has to be accepted. But don't expect me to not talk about it. I want them to choose Christ because I love them and want them to be saved.

I tolerate other beliefs, I think they are all wrong but I certainly wouldn't outlaw them.

 

[Milford Cubicle]

Not that I disagree with you in general I would just like to ask the question... what if there really wasn't any religion? Look at the atrocities commited by Pol Pot or Stalin. Two notable atheists. Look at the recent case of Pekka-Eric Auvinen. Religion gets the blame when a religious psycho murders a bunch of people but when atheists start oppressing or slaughtering it suddenly seems that "atheism had nothing to do with it!"

I think that if you are a complete bastard you will find an excuse. Some people are just sociopathic and it really doesn't matter if they are religious or atheist, they will do terrible things.

This "Stalin being an atheist" gets a lot of airtime, but it doesn't mean shit!

The few atheist tyrants you can think of (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) doesn't mean anything. All the other bastards in history worshipped God(s), at least nominally. Hitler was a Catholic. Mussolini was Catholic. Vlad the Impaler was an Orthodox Christian (I think?), etc etc.

Their religion (or lack of it) does not make any difference. You may as well say that moustaches were the cause of their bastardry.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Touche good sir. But also notable is the short list of Atheist Tyrants standing against religious (or ones who used religion at any rate) as a tool or reason. Its the fact that gods and the like are used as a reason that makes religious crimes more noticeable.

Indeedy, however behind every single religious conflict you will find a lot of politics and a fair share of rulers out to expand their influence. The same is true of atheist despots. There is a lack of verifiable tyrants who have male baldness, thus establishing the connection between baldness and wisdom that I have always suspected but never actually proven.

But I will! You'll see! [http://www.baldrus.com/]

So I am supposed to believe that people are going to hell, then wave them along on there merry way.

Yes. That is exactly what you should do, and for this reason - it is none of your beeswax. This isn't a case of some wayward child in the street crying. Or some old guy who has fallen on his arse and needs a hand up. These are adults who can think for themselves and are completely free to make their own decisions.

If you think someone is going to hell that is your business, not theirs. If they ask you about it, then feel free to preach to them until they tell you to stop. But until they ask it is a strictly personal matter.

I have been banging on at the fundamentalist atheists in the forum to stop trying to shove their own beliefs down everyones throats, now I ask you to consider doing the same.

This "Stalin being an atheist" gets a lot of airtime, but it doesn't mean shit!

The few atheist tyrants you can think of (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot) doesn't mean anything. All the other bastards in history worshipped God(s), at least nominally. Hitler was a Catholic. Mussolini was Catholic. Vlad the Impaler was an Orthodox Christian (I think?), etc etc.

Their religion (or lack of it) does not make any difference. You may as well say that moustaches were the cause of their bastardry.

And the exact same arguments can be easily applied to religious leaders too. Religion doesn't make monsters, nor does atheism. Some people are just like that.

 

[Milford Cubicle]

And the exact same arguments can be easily applied to religious leaders too. Religion doesn't make monsters, nor does atheism. Some people are just like that.

I agree. It's nice to finally agree with someone.

 

[WeedWorm]

I personally believe that we should get rid of religion altogether. But, until we do get rid of it, i dont care if people believe unless they try to shove it own my throat. The we have a problem

 

[teh_gunslinger]

However, science doesn't come with unconditional love.

I'm not sure unconditional love from a higher being is such a good thing to be honest.

I tend to think that religion is a lazy way of understanding the world. Religion offers only answers and the illusion of comfort. There is no progress or advancement in religion (Of course I'm being somewhat black and white here).
Science not only offers answers but it also raises new questions. It's in the process of answering those questions that we, as a species, move forward.

Like a poster above I see myself as a level 6 atheist. I discount the existence of deities for all practical porpuses, though of course I can't prove it. Based on the tiny probability I find myself not believing.

However, should a deity be proven, I would not worship it. It would be sad (for me at least) to be controlled by a "celestial dictator" (thank you, Hitchens, for that one). I would accept the existence of said deity but never "have faith in", believe in, obey or worship. If that lands me in Hell, then so be it. Rather eternal damnation than slavery.
So in a way I guess I'm anti theist. A man choses, a slave obeys.

All that being said: People can believe what they want as long as they leave me out of it and don't make me suffer for it. That means: leave it out of politics, out of schools, out of public places etc. Keep in in your temples.

 

[DarkLordofDevon]

Religion causes conflict. Whilst there are many religions there will always be religious conflict because unless you have a polytheistic system where anyone can worship any number of gods, there will always be 'My One True God is the Real One True God and your One True God is Wrong'. In short, for peace there can only be 1 monotheistic religion, if any.

I personally would prefer no religion at all, being an atheist. Science provides all the answers I need. However, I can see whilst there is religious division people will never set aside their differences for the greater good. One way or another, progression as a global society will only come when there is a complete unity religiously. But this will never happen because there is too much diversity. So we are doomed to a world of conflict for a very long forseeable future.

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

No, we shouldn't and I even reject the views of some people that we can all 'get along' since it's like Grizzly Bears getting along with Velociraptors.

I'm Anti-Theist but I'm not telling people to think how I think, I just think they have ridiculous, childish beliefs and I sincerely hope it's something people will grow out of soon.

 

[I Stomp on Kittens]

I dont believe in anything (no offense to anyone) i just think its just to make us act good and to have something for answers

 

[mokes310]

I'm an atheist, and I could care less about religion...just so long as you don't try to push your beliefs on me. In addition to that, I have a real problem with politicians who try to get laws enacted due to their religious beliefs: gay marriage, row v wade, intelligent design, etc, etc...

 

[cuddly_tomato]

No, we shouldn't and I even reject the views of some people that we can all 'get along' since it's like Grizzly Bears getting along with Velociraptors.

I seem to be able to get on with people who think differently quite well. Do you know why? Because I respect their views and don't tell them it is ridiculous and childish to think differently than I. It is called... ohh... what's that word again?

Ahhh...

Manners.

I'm Anti-Theist but I'm not telling people to think how I think, I just think they have ridiculous, childish beliefs and I sincerely hope it's something people will grow out of soon.

Maybe the problem isn't religion. Maybe the problem is intolerant biggotry and a steadfast belief that "*my* way is the only way". Maybe the solution is just a few social skills? You know the kind of thing? It's kinda like when you don't say "It was only a bloody dog!", or "You are the most boring person on earth" to your friends. If you can't do that with strangers either, you have a problem.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Or you could get a clue and realise that the world has changed and religion has lost a siginificant footing.

"Intolerant biggotry" yes its the anti religion people most guilty of this...I think religion has a few more millenia experience doing that than us.

 

[O maestre]

non believer but god fearing... that means i am constantly afraid of a god creeping up from under me, in the dark, in my room, with no central heating.....

now religious people, are still people, and are still due fair respect just as anyone else. as long as religion is practiced at home and does not consume their every single rational thought and productivity as if it were slurpee

in conclusion my beef is with the priests, rabbis(spelling?) and the monks, the teachers and providers of this product.

in other words possession for private use is fine, but distribution and production is just not cool with me. that way people can make up their own damn minds if they want to believe or not, or what thy choose to believe. fer christe sake they giv it to wee children! from the day they are born even

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

No, we shouldn't and I even reject the views of some people that we can all 'get along' since it's like Grizzly Bears getting along with Velociraptors.

I seem to be able to get on with people who think differently quite well. Do you know why? Because I respect their views and don't tell them it is ridiculous and childish to think differently than I. It is called... ohh... what's that word again?

Ahhh...

Manners.

I'm Anti-Theist but I'm not telling people to think how I think, I just think they have ridiculous, childish beliefs and I sincerely hope it's something people will grow out of soon.

Maybe the problem isn't religion. Maybe the problem is intolerant biggotry and a steadfast belief that "*my* way is the only way". Maybe the solution is just a few social skills? You know the kind of thing? It's kinda like when you don't say "It was only a bloody dog!", or "You are the most boring person on earth" to your friends. If you can't do that with strangers either, you have a problem.

Oh I am sorry, I'm sorry I'm through with respecting religion, I'm sorry I can't respect people who wile away their lives in Churches and the like, it's called having an opinion. I am not calling anyone a fucking idiot for believing in something or killing dogs or whatever you think I'm doing. I have harsh views but like I said: I am very Anti-Theist, incredibly adamant and an antisocial *****.

You kind of people really piss me off you know that?