Poll: religon: a 7 point scale

[yosophat]

Having mated fruit-flies and getting them to evolve I can clearly say "Yes, a mortal can recreate evolution".

All you're doing is tossing God into a completely naturalistic setting, hoping that people don't mind adding nonsense to science.

Yeah.... right.... Putting legs in place of atenna and wings is evolution. Post something meaningful like when you put gills or poison barbs in its ass. Evolution cannot explain how new systems appear like gills or lungs. What you are essentially doing is begging those flies to please look slightly different so I can say you have evolved or I will inbreed you so much you'll look like a retarded monkey-fish because you already have the genes that make you look like one. I only say that God created evolution because alone evolution does not make sense; it cannot create the diverse systems that are common out of thin air. Its like saying gills directly evolved to lungs and anything in between that jump was non-beneficial so the organism dies and there is no change.

 

[CymTyr]

Without pushing my personal beliefs on others I couldn't help but notice that the majority of people polled have gone with atheism. I wonder if this is a common phenomenon with gamers or the world culture as time goes on...

I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. I will agree to disagree with anyone who logically disagrees with something I believe in, and would expect the same treatment.

What I will say is religion, dating back for the past 10 thousand years at least, has caused human death that would not have otherwise happened. Look up the ancient Sumerian religion, or one of the other "original" religions. God(s) at that point in time were not nice, friendly, and forgiving. Human sacrifice was committed daily. If you look closely at today you will see some eery similarities.

Seriously, I encourage everyone atheist or theist to look up where the necronomicon came from. It offers some insight into why people act the way they do nowadays, because we haven't really changed that much; technology has.

EDIT: oh yeah I believe in my own god, so make of it what you will.

 

[theultimateend]

I'm not a Christian, but I'm 100% certain that God exists.

When a rabbit runs through the snow, does it not leave footprints?

No. It leaves paw prints.

Likewise how big is this rabbit? How large are their paws? If they are wide enough it could disperse its weight enough to leave no impression in the snow at all. It's unlikely but with the proper proportions it could be done.

Is this snow nearly ice or is it nearly slush?

We need some more information here.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I went with 6. I'm Atheist, but I can't say 7, because it is impossible to be 100% sure.
I'm actually surprised so many people went with 1 and 7. They're the annoying ones preaching their beliefs down others throats...

I chose 1 and I'm not doing that.

Okay, maybe you're an exception. Generally speaking, saying you're 100% sure leaves no room to see "God" or no God, from a different point of view. Leading to being condescending to people who have other beliefs, because you feel you have a truth that others don't.
I'm not saying it's bad to have a belief (or none) and be proud of that, but to say you're 100% sure you're right is impossible.

I'm as sure as I feel I can be. I don't have condescending views towards atheists, most of them are rather intelligent people. The only atheists I really hate are the ones that try to be fascist about it. I enjoy having a civilized theological discussion with atheists as long as it doesn't burst into flames; I don't like conflict.

Certainly you have been respectful. I just hope you research further into a field of science before presenting an argument against it.

Actually, I'm a strong supporter of science. Despite the advances we as a species have made, science is still rather young. I have the feeling that scientists with new theories will always debate on a number of issues until one side is proven and new issues arise. It's a fairly endless process that I think will go on until the world ends.

Once again, you can't 'prove' things in science.....ever. As well as another mention that a theory is a collection of facts. Scientists aren't debating theories, but debating certain facts in collect theories. So once again, scientists will never 'prove' anything because there will always be more to learn in a theory.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

... assuming there's either a Christian God or nothing, mathematically speaking you really should believe in God. Look-up Pascal's Wager.

Assuming there's a Christian god for whom that's good enough or nothing ...

According to the literature, though, if you don't it's because he doesn't want you to, right?

Strange sort of deity. Makes people in its own image, but they all look different and tend to hate anyone who looks different. Gives a thousand different groups of them a thousand different sets of rules and then leaves them to fight over which ones are right and throws all the ones who guessed wrong into fire for eternity. Sees everything, foresees everything, controls everything, loves everyone, made everyone the way they are on purpose ... uses Earth to test these people and throws the failures into the fire to suffer for eternity for having been made imperfect ... on purpose ... and demands absolute unquestioning total adoration at all times without any palpable or visible rewards ... and, er, is pure good ... and made demons to tempt people to stray so the tiniest imperfections would show up and more people could be sent to hell ... errr ...

You know, I've advised people to leave men like that.


...

The world is unfair, there are starving people in Africa, ... World Wars, ...

Just seems like it was meant to be this way.Really dude, do you mean this? How can you morally say that?

Allow me to add:

On August 4, 2002, best friends Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, both 10 [http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/ian_huntley/index.html], posed for a picture sporting their new red Manchester United football shirts before sitting down to dinner with family and friends. It was a festive occasion and the Wells family was having a barbecue. Shortly after dinner, Holly and Jessica stepped out of the house and went to a nearby sports center to buy some candy. They were never seen alive again.

On August 17, 2002, 13 days after the girls disappeared, a game warden walking through the woods made a heart wrenching discovery. He found the girls partially burned bodies in a six-foot-deep ditch close to the RAF Lakenheath airbase in Suffolk. Autopsy reports on the girls listed their probable cause of death as asphyxiation. The girls parents worst nightmare became a reality.

Sarah was abducted on July 1. [http://www.forsarah.com/html/anguish.html]

The family had spent the afternoon together on the beach near her grandparents' home in Kingston Gorse, West Sussex.

At the end of the day the four children walked into a field of wheat.

But Sarah turned back - and was thought to have been grabbed by a man in a white van.

Her body was found 16 days later. Sara remembers her daughter racing across the sands on that last day.

I told her that Alyssa wouldn't be at school today. She doesn't lie in the classroom. She doesn't lie any more at school. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBbBQOifx4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDLRAB0yNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmvI-yPZss

On the sixteenth of March 1996 ... [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dExPZzD3KG8]

More than 60,000 tonnes of saturated coal and rock engulfed a farm, houses and the junior school [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbVtx-xggg]

3 August: Following a 999 call, Peter is taken to hospital but pronounced dead on arrival. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/22/baby-p-timeline]

The first girl went missing in 1995. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/pm/1680822.stm] She had arrived at Gatwick from West Africa, claimed asylum and was taken into care by social services in West Sussex. She then vanished.

65 more were to follow. Experts say this represents a tiny fraction of the true figure.

... for many the war never ended. They're still suffering the effects of chemical warfare. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJxb7CY13uc]

Just seems like it was meant to be this way.

 

[Cavouku]

Without pushing my personal beliefs on others I couldn't help but notice that the majority of people polled have gone with atheism. I wonder if this is a common phenomenon with gamers or the world culture as time goes on...

I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. I will agree to disagree with anyone who logically disagrees with something I believe in, and would expect the same treatment.

What I will say is religion, dating back for the past 10 thousand years at least, has caused human death that would not have otherwise happened. Look up the ancient Sumerian religion, or one of the other "original" religions. God(s) at that point in time were not nice, friendly, and forgiving. Human sacrifice was committed daily. If you look closely at today you will see some eery similarities.

Seriously, I encourage everyone atheist or theist to look up where the necronomicon came from. It offers some insight into why people act the way they do nowadays, because we haven't really changed that much; technology has.

People cause wars, not religion T~T

Wars happen because people either want conformity, or something they don't have. Religion just happens to fall into category one, and this is a basic human thing. Wars happen with or without religion.

Oh I'm sorry, sacrifices; well, I think that all those early ideals were fairly unavoidable, as people thought that someone's life brought life, whether religion caused it or once. Primordial science, I guess. Alchemy. Etc.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Having mated fruit-flies and getting them to evolve I can clearly say "Yes, a mortal can recreate evolution".

All you're doing is tossing God into a completely naturalistic setting, hoping that people don't mind adding nonsense to science.

Yeah.... right.... Putting legs in place of atenna and wings is evolution. Post something meaningful like when you put gills or poison barbs in its ass. Evolution cannot explain how new systems appear like gills or lungs. What you are essentially doing is begging those flies to please look slightly different so I can say you have evolved or I will inbreed you so much you'll look like a retarded monkey-fish because you already have the genes that make you look like one. I only say that God created evolution because alone evolution does not make sense; it cannot create the diverse systems that are common out of thin air. Its like saying gills directly evolved to lungs and anything in between that jump was non-beneficial so the organism dies and there is no change.

Obviously someone has no knowledge of what evolution really is. Yes, we can and have explained gills and lungs by observing the fish-mudskipper and other organisms that actually developed both organs.

Flies that look slightly different have evolved. Take a wolf, for example. Capture it and hold it in a cage with a female and get them to mate. Take the tamest of the pups and mate them, continue onward and you will have a wolf with ears that are floppier since it no longer relies on sound to get food. Take those pups and continue mating and you will produce a dog as time goes on. Slight changes, overtime, become huge changes.

No, gills did not evolved directly to lungs. Slow gradual changes produced the lung as we have.

 

[bladeofdarkness]

all people who follow any given religion should be well aware of the one flaw in the proposition that their religion is the right one and only they are going to heaven
and the flaws is that if you accept the idea that only one religion is the right one
is that statistically speaking you are most likely to go to hell

 

[Shoqiyqa]

Have you ever studied biology? Are you aware of how mind-buggeringly complex even some of the most simple creatures are? It's just impossible that this happened by coincidence.

If you start from the assumption that there's only one "world i.e. planet" and the whole universe is only 8,600 years old, you're likely to be amazed that all this amazing stuff has happened.

If you start by assuming the universe is as big and as old as observations and scientific understanding indicate that it appears to be* then the odds of life appearing somewhere suddenly look a lot more favourable. Some people at this point will bring up the fact that life just happened to appear on *this* planet and apparently think that's proof that it was done by some sort of god. "This planet" is defined by the person saying it as being the one on which that person is at the time, which is generally the one on which life evolved into that person ... so it was bound to be on "this" planet.

Retina are connected at the wrong ends. That's why there's a blind spot in a mammalian eye's vision. Intelligent design with a divine purpose?



* Taking mass to be a form of energy, the universe could be a lot older than "since the Big Bang", having imploded and exploded a lot. If you want to get into quantum madness, it could be on a loop through time for all we know.

 

[UtopiaV1]

Interesting poll, differs from the norm, and the results are interesting. I suppose if you spend 90% of your time on video games killing hordes of people for fun then u gotta lean towards atheism, or god will SMITE THEE!!! (I think atheists get pardoned for murder, cos we're too stupid to know better...)

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

Close to 7. I do not believe in any of the current mainstream deities because whenever I hear the stories about them I think "Yep, I know exactly where they took that from. Shame myths can't be copyrighted."

 

[Goldbling]

I voted 2.00 but I'm really 1.00, I Firmly believe there is a God. Maybe not the one I believe in, but there is defiantly a God.

I've always wondered the "why" to this.

In the end it doesn't matter, people who don't like reality will continue to fluff it and there is nothing nice anyone else can do to change that.

To me I just don't see the evidence. What is there that would give the idea to anyone that there is some sort of almighty being. I'm a huge fan of the universe and I get a boner everytime I read an astrophysics book, I am a huge fan of life and I get a cognitive boner anytime a new discovery is made. I just don't see the evidence for a supreme being nor does it appear that faking it does any justice to an otherwise astoundingly interesting existence.

I'd rather not shit on this cake just because I really feel the need to take a dump.

You believe what you believe and that's fine. No one can provide you with the "evidence" you need to know there is a God, you can only find that yourself.

Again you are trying to legitimize a view that undermines every other thing you know.

If we can just belief in things for funsies then all knowledge is entirely moot because it serves no purpose.

Essentially once you start believing in things because you can you are closing your mind to any other knowledge. Once you start being skeptical you are making yourself a hypocrite. If you accept the scientific theory for anything else it is unreasonable to make an exception for something just because it makes you feel good.

But then reason isn't exactly part of the gameplan. What benefit do you get out of faith that you wouldn't get out of optimism? I know the answer but I hate rhetorical questions so I'll let you give me an answer.

None, I suppose if that's the way you wan to think about it. Whats with the whole "Religion don't let you lern nothin'" thing going on lately? I seek knowledge like any other person religious or otherwise, I also aspire to do something beside fight with people on teh internets like Genealogy, Astronomy, hell maybe even be a Historian. There is no rule in the Bible that's said you much turn off your brain and shut out all logic. Logic also depends on the person, what seems a logical choise to one person may seem totally idiotic and ignorant to another.

Well historically that's the case. The numbers you use are Arabic Numerals, almost every star visible at night with your eye has an Arabic name, and initially the Arabic region of the world was responsible for basically all scientific advancement.

Then one day it was declared that mathematics was the work of the devil (sounds stupid but it happened). After that the Arab world collapsed cognitively and even now, thousands of years later it hasn't recovered.

Look at creationists. They are fighting hard to debunk evolution. However evolution has been evolving since it was first developed. They tend to use darwinian statements and act like people still believe he was 100% correct. Much like Einstein or Newton he had a vast majority of the basics down but wasn't entirely right. However what do you get out of creationism? You get nothing. It cannot help you develop cures, understand viruses, examine anything biologically.

The pure idea of faith is a slap in the face of knowledge. By the very nature of believing in something because you can and not because there is a reason to you leave yourself being a hypocrite. Why is it alright to believe in god just because but you can't believe in flying spaghetti monsters with the same legitimacy.

There is an invisible race of beings that produce no signs that would ever give light to their existence. They walk around the Earth just as we do. I've just developed something that can never be dis proven. Does that mean its true? From a scientific standpoint its not even worth thinking about. However if we go off the tenets of faith the answer should or possibly even must be "Yes it is true."

Every single time you reach a question that cannot simply be answered will you say "God did it." or will you investigate. If you investigate then why did you accept god so easily?

Why do I care what a select group of people thought a long time ago? What affect does that have on me in today's world where we know more than was known then? It doesn't it's an empty statement that doesn't apply to today's Christians nor does it apply to our Bible.

In the case of the FSM, if it actually spoke to someone a long time ago, and if it actually created the universe that argument might work but since it didn't it doesn't apply.

In the argument of the Invisible race... Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, since you are the sourse or "person" in this equation then in the terms of faith it is also not even worth thinking about.

Don't bother making another long winded argument, just cut strait to what you are going to say.

[small]i hate reading on the internets, it hurts mah eyes[/small]

 

[Shoqiyqa]

I Believe in God 110%

You and God should get a room.

Don't forget to leave a 10% tip for room service.

 

[S.H.A.R.P.]

One of the better religious threads in my opinion. A simple question if whether you're religious or not just doesn't cut it.

I voted 6, though I don't like the term "god".

 

[theultimateend]

I voted 2.00 but I'm really 1.00, I Firmly believe there is a God. Maybe not the one I believe in, but there is defiantly a God.

I've always wondered the "why" to this.

In the end it doesn't matter, people who don't like reality will continue to fluff it and there is nothing nice anyone else can do to change that.

To me I just don't see the evidence. What is there that would give the idea to anyone that there is some sort of almighty being. I'm a huge fan of the universe and I get a boner everytime I read an astrophysics book, I am a huge fan of life and I get a cognitive boner anytime a new discovery is made. I just don't see the evidence for a supreme being nor does it appear that faking it does any justice to an otherwise astoundingly interesting existence.

I'd rather not shit on this cake just because I really feel the need to take a dump.

You believe what you believe and that's fine. No one can provide you with the "evidence" you need to know there is a God, you can only find that yourself.

Again you are trying to legitimize a view that undermines every other thing you know.

If we can just belief in things for funsies then all knowledge is entirely moot because it serves no purpose.

Essentially once you start believing in things because you can you are closing your mind to any other knowledge. Once you start being skeptical you are making yourself a hypocrite. If you accept the scientific theory for anything else it is unreasonable to make an exception for something just because it makes you feel good.

But then reason isn't exactly part of the gameplan. What benefit do you get out of faith that you wouldn't get out of optimism? I know the answer but I hate rhetorical questions so I'll let you give me an answer.

None, I suppose if that's the way you wan to think about it. Whats with the whole "Religion don't let you lern nothin'" thing going on lately? I seek knowledge like any other person religious or otherwise, I also aspire to do something beside fight with people on teh internets like Genealogy, Astronomy, hell maybe even be a Historian. There is no rule in the Bible that's said you much turn off your brain and shut out all logic. Logic also depends on the person, what seems a logical choise to one person may seem totally idiotic and ignorant to another.

Well historically that's the case. The numbers you use are Arabic Numerals, almost every star visible at night with your eye has an Arabic name, and initially the Arabic region of the world was responsible for basically all scientific advancement.

Then one day it was declared that mathematics was the work of the devil (sounds stupid but it happened). After that the Arab world collapsed cognitively and even now, thousands of years later it hasn't recovered.

Look at creationists. They are fighting hard to debunk evolution. However evolution has been evolving since it was first developed. They tend to use darwinian statements and act like people still believe he was 100% correct. Much like Einstein or Newton he had a vast majority of the basics down but wasn't entirely right. However what do you get out of creationism? You get nothing. It cannot help you develop cures, understand viruses, examine anything biologically.

The pure idea of faith is a slap in the face of knowledge. By the very nature of believing in something because you can and not because there is a reason to you leave yourself being a hypocrite. Why is it alright to believe in god just because but you can't believe in flying spaghetti monsters with the same legitimacy.

There is an invisible race of beings that produce no signs that would ever give light to their existence. They walk around the Earth just as we do. I've just developed something that can never be dis proven. Does that mean its true? From a scientific standpoint its not even worth thinking about. However if we go off the tenets of faith the answer should or possibly even must be "Yes it is true."

Every single time you reach a question that cannot simply be answered will you say "God did it." or will you investigate. If you investigate then why did you accept god so easily?

Why do I care what a select group of people thought a long time ago? What affect does that have on me in today's world where we know more than was known then? It doesn't it's an empty statement that doesn't apply to today's Christians nor does it apply to our Bible.

In the case of the FSM, if it actually spoke to someone a long time ago, and if it actually created the universe that argument might work but since it didn't it doesn't apply.

In the argument of the Invisible race... Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, since you are the sourse or "person" in this equation then in the terms of faith it is also not even worth thinking about.

Don't bother making another long winded argument, just cut strait to what you are going to say.

[small]i hate reading on the internets, it hurts mah eyes[/small]

Ok I'll make it short. As I noted earlier. Your faith legitimizes extremists and causes the deaths of thousands and thousands of people at the very least every single year. Because for every you there is a few million more and together they are what make faiths more than cults.

 

[Goldbling]

I voted 2.00 but I'm really 1.00, I Firmly believe there is a God. Maybe not the one I believe in, but there is defiantly a God.

I've always wondered the "why" to this.

In the end it doesn't matter, people who don't like reality will continue to fluff it and there is nothing nice anyone else can do to change that.

To me I just don't see the evidence. What is there that would give the idea to anyone that there is some sort of almighty being. I'm a huge fan of the universe and I get a boner everytime I read an astrophysics book, I am a huge fan of life and I get a cognitive boner anytime a new discovery is made. I just don't see the evidence for a supreme being nor does it appear that faking it does any justice to an otherwise astoundingly interesting existence.

I'd rather not shit on this cake just because I really feel the need to take a dump.

You believe what you believe and that's fine. No one can provide you with the "evidence" you need to know there is a God, you can only find that yourself.

Again you are trying to legitimize a view that undermines every other thing you know.

If we can just belief in things for funsies then all knowledge is entirely moot because it serves no purpose.

Essentially once you start believing in things because you can you are closing your mind to any other knowledge. Once you start being skeptical you are making yourself a hypocrite. If you accept the scientific theory for anything else it is unreasonable to make an exception for something just because it makes you feel good.

But then reason isn't exactly part of the gameplan. What benefit do you get out of faith that you wouldn't get out of optimism? I know the answer but I hate rhetorical questions so I'll let you give me an answer.

None, I suppose if that's the way you wan to think about it. Whats with the whole "Religion don't let you lern nothin'" thing going on lately? I seek knowledge like any other person religious or otherwise, I also aspire to do something beside fight with people on teh internets like Genealogy, Astronomy, hell maybe even be a Historian. There is no rule in the Bible that's said you much turn off your brain and shut out all logic. Logic also depends on the person, what seems a logical choise to one person may seem totally idiotic and ignorant to another.

Well historically that's the case. The numbers you use are Arabic Numerals, almost every star visible at night with your eye has an Arabic name, and initially the Arabic region of the world was responsible for basically all scientific advancement.

Then one day it was declared that mathematics was the work of the devil (sounds stupid but it happened). After that the Arab world collapsed cognitively and even now, thousands of years later it hasn't recovered.

Look at creationists. They are fighting hard to debunk evolution. However evolution has been evolving since it was first developed. They tend to use darwinian statements and act like people still believe he was 100% correct. Much like Einstein or Newton he had a vast majority of the basics down but wasn't entirely right. However what do you get out of creationism? You get nothing. It cannot help you develop cures, understand viruses, examine anything biologically.

The pure idea of faith is a slap in the face of knowledge. By the very nature of believing in something because you can and not because there is a reason to you leave yourself being a hypocrite. Why is it alright to believe in god just because but you can't believe in flying spaghetti monsters with the same legitimacy.

There is an invisible race of beings that produce no signs that would ever give light to their existence. They walk around the Earth just as we do. I've just developed something that can never be dis proven. Does that mean its true? From a scientific standpoint its not even worth thinking about. However if we go off the tenets of faith the answer should or possibly even must be "Yes it is true."

Every single time you reach a question that cannot simply be answered will you say "God did it." or will you investigate. If you investigate then why did you accept god so easily?

Why do I care what a select group of people thought a long time ago? What affect does that have on me in today's world where we know more than was known then? It doesn't it's an empty statement that doesn't apply to today's Christians nor does it apply to our Bible.

In the case of the FSM, if it actually spoke to someone a long time ago, and if it actually created the universe that argument might work but since it didn't it doesn't apply.

In the argument of the Invisible race... Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, since you are the sourse or "person" in this equation then in the terms of faith it is also not even worth thinking about.

Don't bother making another long winded argument, just cut strait to what you are going to say.

[small]i hate reading on the internets, it hurts mah eyes[/small]

Ok I'll make it short. As I noted earlier. Your faith legitimizes extremists and causes the deaths of thousands and thousands of people at the very least every single year. Because for every you there is a few million more and together they are what make faiths more than cults.

Thank you,

be that as it may, I still believe what I believe and there isn't one person who can change that, and vice-versa.

But there isn't any reason Theists and Atheists can't co-exist without arguing (actually there probably is and I just don't know it), that's the kind of world I want to live in. Although this discussion may have fucked that plan up a bit...

 

[Cliff_m85]

I voted 2.00 but I'm really 1.00, I Firmly believe there is a God. Maybe not the one I believe in, but there is defiantly a God.

I've always wondered the "why" to this.

In the end it doesn't matter, people who don't like reality will continue to fluff it and there is nothing nice anyone else can do to change that.

To me I just don't see the evidence. What is there that would give the idea to anyone that there is some sort of almighty being. I'm a huge fan of the universe and I get a boner everytime I read an astrophysics book, I am a huge fan of life and I get a cognitive boner anytime a new discovery is made. I just don't see the evidence for a supreme being nor does it appear that faking it does any justice to an otherwise astoundingly interesting existence.

I'd rather not shit on this cake just because I really feel the need to take a dump.

You believe what you believe and that's fine. No one can provide you with the "evidence" you need to know there is a God, you can only find that yourself.

Again you are trying to legitimize a view that undermines every other thing you know.

If we can just belief in things for funsies then all knowledge is entirely moot because it serves no purpose.

Essentially once you start believing in things because you can you are closing your mind to any other knowledge. Once you start being skeptical you are making yourself a hypocrite. If you accept the scientific theory for anything else it is unreasonable to make an exception for something just because it makes you feel good.

But then reason isn't exactly part of the gameplan. What benefit do you get out of faith that you wouldn't get out of optimism? I know the answer but I hate rhetorical questions so I'll let you give me an answer.

None, I suppose if that's the way you wan to think about it. Whats with the whole "Religion don't let you lern nothin'" thing going on lately? I seek knowledge like any other person religious or otherwise, I also aspire to do something beside fight with people on teh internets like Genealogy, Astronomy, hell maybe even be a Historian. There is no rule in the Bible that's said you much turn off your brain and shut out all logic. Logic also depends on the person, what seems a logical choise to one person may seem totally idiotic and ignorant to another.

Well historically that's the case. The numbers you use are Arabic Numerals, almost every star visible at night with your eye has an Arabic name, and initially the Arabic region of the world was responsible for basically all scientific advancement.

Then one day it was declared that mathematics was the work of the devil (sounds stupid but it happened). After that the Arab world collapsed cognitively and even now, thousands of years later it hasn't recovered.

Look at creationists. They are fighting hard to debunk evolution. However evolution has been evolving since it was first developed. They tend to use darwinian statements and act like people still believe he was 100% correct. Much like Einstein or Newton he had a vast majority of the basics down but wasn't entirely right. However what do you get out of creationism? You get nothing. It cannot help you develop cures, understand viruses, examine anything biologically.

The pure idea of faith is a slap in the face of knowledge. By the very nature of believing in something because you can and not because there is a reason to you leave yourself being a hypocrite. Why is it alright to believe in god just because but you can't believe in flying spaghetti monsters with the same legitimacy.

There is an invisible race of beings that produce no signs that would ever give light to their existence. They walk around the Earth just as we do. I've just developed something that can never be dis proven. Does that mean its true? From a scientific standpoint its not even worth thinking about. However if we go off the tenets of faith the answer should or possibly even must be "Yes it is true."

Every single time you reach a question that cannot simply be answered will you say "God did it." or will you investigate. If you investigate then why did you accept god so easily?

Why do I care what a select group of people thought a long time ago? What affect does that have on me in today's world where we know more than was known then? It doesn't it's an empty statement that doesn't apply to today's Christians nor does it apply to our Bible.

In the case of the FSM, if it actually spoke to someone a long time ago, and if it actually created the universe that argument might work but since it didn't it doesn't apply.

In the argument of the Invisible race... Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing, since you are the sourse or "person" in this equation then in the terms of faith it is also not even worth thinking about.

Don't bother making another long winded argument, just cut strait to what you are going to say.

[small]i hate reading on the internets, it hurts mah eyes[/small]

Ok I'll make it short. As I noted earlier. Your faith legitimizes extremists and causes the deaths of thousands and thousands of people at the very least every single year. Because for every you there is a few million more and together they are what make faiths more than cults.

Thank you,

be that as it may, I still believe what I believe and there isn't one person who can change that, and vice-versa.

But there isn't any reason Theists and Atheists can't co-exist without arguing (actually there probably is and I just don't know it), that's the kind of world I want to live in. Although this discussion may have fucked that plan up a bit...

This is why we can't.

 

[TheSunshineHobo]

I'm 100% certain that 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510 is Pi to 50 places.

 

[Suikun]

I'm a comfortable 1.00

However, I think it's easier for me to be religious than some others because I have my own, unique belief system that, if you wanted to get into semantics, I guess you could call "occult".

Guess I see things as kind of laze faire (not sure if I butchered that or not..) in terms of religion, because if people benefit from believing in a god or gods, then why deny them their right to believe such? If they don't and it makes things easier for them, why try to push your beliefs on them?

I forget where I heard this, but it's a saying that goes something along the lines of, "Religion shouldn't be about conforming to a belief and a strict set of rules laid out by a large group of people who claim to know better than you. Rather, it should be a personal thing between you and your God."

My question is this: Why do we need organized religion? Why can't we just say that this is what I believe and that's that instead of having to tack on labels for everything that force people into believing things they don't want to?