Poll: Rolling R's and Pronouncing L's

[Torrasque]

The difficulty is that the rolling R sound is not found in a lot of english, and the L sound technically doesn't exist in Japanese. So unless you have a dextrous tongue, you will be unable to pronounce one or the other.

When I learned katakana, I spent more time facepalming than learning the new words. I remember my professor writing down KA RU GA RI, and I was sounding it out in my head. After a couple seconds, I asked her "is that Calgary? =|" and she was "Hai!", much to my disdain... Katakana is the perfect example of how "good" Japanese is at adopting words in other languages.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Unless we find people who speak a language where both the L and the Rolled R is absent I don't think we can get a valid comparison. Since I speak English the hard/rolled R sounds are hard for me as they are not used in English to any large degree.

 

[AngloDoom]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

I'm actually in the same position as you, in that I'm hoping to teach in Japan once I've had a few more years building up a bedrock of savings. Personally, I found the 'rolling R' thing to come pretty naturally. I think it really depends on the person.

Good luck with the teaching, by the way.

 

[harvz]

I did 2 years of Japanese and I picked up the rolling 'R' quite quickly, I couldn't tell you if it had anything to do with my speech difficulties that I had as a child or hearing difficulties but it was probably the easiest thing I picked up.

I imagine learning 'L' would be more difficult, differentiating between 'R' and 'L' would be confusing as well. I knew quite a few people from Japan and China and they would always get them mixed up/pronounce wrong.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Depends on what your native language is. Most English speakers have difficulty rolling their 'r's but I'm bilingual so I've never had trouble with either of those consonants. Most other Europeans roll their 'r's, except for the French who kind of vomit them out.

 

[VladG]

I've been rollin' R's and pronouncing L's since I was 2. Generating the sound is easy. All you have to do is move your tongue to the top of your mouth as you exhale

 

[LGC Pominator]

there is only one place where rolling Rs is EVER appropriate, and that is here:

(minor spoilers ahead)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx3A2TdAuOI

 

[Guffe]

I guess both for me are pretty easy so I can't answer. Maybe if I go study Logopaedics I might give you an answer in 5-6 years

 

[bluegate]

it's been 20 min. and she's not even close

Sometimes, things like this take time. My old phonetics teacher had to practice for weeks before she could pronounce the R the way we do in the Netherlands. She was German, and taught English.

For her sake, I hope that she never learned how to pronounce that gargle Dutch G heard in the northern regions ( pretty much anywhere not-Limburg ). Because if there is one thing that is absolutely not charming about the Dutch language, it's the way the G is pronounced.

Anyway...

I must uphold a different definition of a "rolling R" than you do, because the only rolling r's I ever encountered in Japanese were spoken by would-be thugs trying to sound tough, never in any day to day conversation with 'normal' people.

As for rolling r's or L's... my native language does not have rolling r's, but I don't have any trouble with pronouncing them.


Edit:
Instead of worrying about the way you or your girlfriend pronounce the R in Japanese, worry about the way you pronounce your vowels, because vowels are pronounced quite differently in Japanese than they are in English and hearing an English native speak Japanese is always kinda funny.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

For me it's rolling 'R's... I just can't do it =[

 

[Bvenged]

"L" is simple, just make your tongue pointy and stick the tip just back a bit from behind your teeth, then exhale using soft notes.

Rolling R is harder as it's more a technique you have to learn yourself. Flatten out your tongue and flick it to the top of your mouth, hoping exhaled air catches it and shacking it around like Shakira's hips. Only works for me for about a tenth of a second before I fail miserably then run down the nearest dark ally crying to beat up some creepy foes in despair.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Considering Norweian has both rolling Rs and no problems with pronouncing L I cant really relate

 

[Call me Baz]

As a native English speaker learning Japanese for the same reason as OP (TEFL in Japan) I don't really have any problem with pronouncing Ls, in my experience though rolling Rs is soemthing people either can do or can't. No one else in my family can roll their Rs but I find it rrrrrrrrrelatively easy (although I haven't used it in the middle of a sentence, it's just something I do for show from time to time)

Learning the "Japanese R" sound is strange. Somewhere between R and L but not quite either of them ... Rosetta Stone is rather picky about it, sometimes I swear I make the same noise 20 times and it only accepts the 20th one for no apparent reason.

 

[Sun Flash]

Being the sexy Scottish beast that I am, rolling R's and over pronouncing L's is easy for me (rolled R's is called Rhotic speech, If I'm not mistaken).

I kind of have to be able to pronounce them, since I have 2 friends called Ruaridh (pronounced Roo-Ree). I have another friend form Oxford who's tongue just gives up when trying to say that.


In saying that, as far as Japanese is concerned, I'd say the L thing was harder, since you're having to learn a whole new sound/letter and insert it into a language that already has completely different syntax and scripture.

I don't know why your girlfriend has trouble though, seeing as she's learning Japanese (If I read correct) so she shouldn't have that problem, other than the fact Japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn for latin alphabet users.

 

[Broady Brio]

If I don't understand a thing about this rolling 'R's, what is the probable odds of me succeeding?

0.000001%? Alrighty, let's get started rolling those R's

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Honestly, I think the l/r dichotomy is half-and-half in Japanese people as it is. Some say r and some say l, even though officially I've heard it described as partway between a d, an h and an r (don't ask me how that works). As for me, I speak English, so wouldn't have a clue which is harder. Although I am Australian, so we don't do anything fancy with r's normally.

 

[Gottesstrafe]

What Japanese words are you pronouncing that require rollings your R's? Never really had to do that when I was learning it, at least.

Speaking of rolling R's and Japanese, a few years ago when I was taking Spanish I picked up a copy of Rosetta Stone for supplementary exercises. When I was finished with it I lent it to my mother (a native Japanese speaker) because she also expressed interest in learning Spanish. Later that week I happened to catch her in the middle of using the program during those vocal exercise parts where you learn pronunciation, and she just so happened to be struggling with the word mujer. What followed would be the most entertaining half hour of my life.