Poll: Rolling R's and Pronouncing L's

[TehCookie]

Japanese roll their r's? I can say a Japanese r but not the Spanish rr (then again I could be saying it incorrectly since I use a Japanese l for the r). Personally I would say r and l are the same difficulty to learn but I gave up on rr. Another sound I can't do is hacking lugis when I speak.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I don't know what you're talking about by rolled Rs in Japanese, as that language doesn't do that, unless you're referring to something totally different. I can roll Rs for German and Spanish without any trouble, and I never knew a native English speaker who had trouble pronouncing an L.

My mom is still not able to roll an R and is very frustrated as she's practicing her Spanish. I wasn't able to do it until I was about 18 or 20.

Well, I don't know Japanese, but I have played around with a few European languages that had the rolling R sound, but that was easy for me. However, my bf can't do it to save his life. Some people just can't, I suppose.

On a sort of unrelated note, I've been studying Chinese for 4 years now and there are so many sounds that I still mess up. Like tones, and certain words like 'qu' (pronounced: Chew, but more emphasized) And remembering the difference between words like 'zuo' and 'zou' and 'dou' and 'duo' and 'dao'. Urgh...

In Mandarin, you have two different types of "sh", "ch" and "j" sounds, sh/x, ch/q, and zh/j. A big distinction between these besides the vowels that follow them is that x/q/j are pronounced with the tongue closer to the teeth and sh/ch/zh are farther back.

I took one Chinese course in college and was really surprised by how much trouble students who had been studying the languag for 2+ years still had with pronunciation and tones. I learned Chinese in super strict, concentrated environment in the military, and they really forced you to go over that stuff. I wish universities could give a better focus on the speaking early on so that it doesn't become difficult/problematic, since speaking practice is so important to language studies and seems to get completely glossed over in the beginning. :C

 

[Chasing-The-Light]

I don't know what you're talking about by rolled Rs in Japanese, as that language doesn't do that, unless you're referring to something totally different. I can roll Rs for German and Spanish without any trouble, and I never knew a native English speaker who had trouble pronouncing an L.

My mom is still not able to roll an R and is very frustrated as she's practicing her Spanish. I wasn't able to do it until I was about 18 or 20.

Well, I don't know Japanese, but I have played around with a few European languages that had the rolling R sound, but that was easy for me. However, my bf can't do it to save his life. Some people just can't, I suppose.

On a sort of unrelated note, I've been studying Chinese for 4 years now and there are so many sounds that I still mess up. Like tones, and certain words like 'qu' (pronounced: Chew, but more emphasized) And remembering the difference between words like 'zuo' and 'zou' and 'dou' and 'duo' and 'dao'. Urgh...

In Mandarin, you have two different types of "sh", "ch" and "j" sounds, sh/x, ch/q, and zh/j. A big distinction between these besides the vowels that follow them is that x/q/j are pronounced with the tongue closer to the teeth and sh/ch/zh are farther back.

I took one Chinese course in college and was really surprised by how much trouble students who had been studying the languag for 2+ years still had with pronunciation and tones. I learned Chinese in super strict, concentrated environment in the military, and they really forced you to go over that stuff. I wish universities could give a better focus on the speaking early on so that it doesn't become difficult/problematic, since speaking practice is so important to language studies and seems to get completely glossed over in the beginning. :C

I do know all those things. xD I know all the sounds and I have wonderful pronunciations when reading. I don't know, it's just if I go too fast I slip up a lot. I wish universities were more strict on it as well, but in most universities it's difficult to implement that into Asian languages, since the majority of people (at least where I'm from, anyway) take Euro languages over Asian. So you end up with classes like mine, where there are only 7 people in it. *shrug*

 

[Jonluw]

How is pronouncing Ls difficult?
I've heard a lot of people have difficulties pronouncing the rolling Rs, but I'm Norwegian so that's not really a problem for me.

 

[Risingblade]

I can't do it...the hell damn R's

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[Baff]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

For Japanese kids I use..

Robert Rolley rolled a round roll round.
A round roll Robert Rolley rolled round.
Where rolled the round roll Robert Rolley rolled round?

And

Around the rugged rock the ragged rascal ran.

"W"'s can be an issue for them too.

"Wolf" for example was giving Mrs Baff a lot of trouble the other night.


Tongue twisters are key to conditioning your vocal muscles.

 

[OneCatch]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

From the title I was sure this thread was going to be taking the piss out of the Welsh

But no, I'd say rolling R's is more difficult.
I can't do it on demand so to speak, but I can if it's part of a word or something. It's weird!

 

[lacktheknack]

I cannot roll my Rs. It's quite vexing. Ls are simple, though.

 

[Areani]

Neither is a problem for me. Though if someone can't roll their R's in Swedish it's usually considered a speech impediment. Or they could be from Skåne. One or the other.

 

[GLo Jones]

Wow, I'm feeling pretty ignorant right now.

I:

A) Didn't know that Japanese actually had any rolling r's in it at all.
and
B) Had no idea anyone would actually have any major difficulty with them.

Could it be more of an american/canadian issue (I'm english)? Are there any British or Irish here that have trouble with it?

Edit:

As a native English speaker learning Japanese for the same reason as OP (TEFL in Japan)

I'm currently learning Korean for TEFL there, woo! TEFL bros!

Learning the "Japanese R" sound is strange. Somewhere between R and L but not quite either of them ... Rosetta Stone is rather picky about it, sometimes I swear I make the same noise 20 times and it only accepts the 20th one for no apparent reason.

... And I'm also learning through Rosetta Stone, and while it's never had any issues with my 'R/L's specifically, I know your pain.

 

[VeryOddGamer]

Really? Rolling R's and pronouncing Ls are hard? Well, since in Finnish, both are used very often (as in Swedish and Norwegian) it's really hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that they might be difficult for some people. Well, then again, if you never do something, it's much harder to do.

 

[DugMachine]

Growing up in south texas (border of mexico..) Spanish has been around me my whole life and I still don't know it! Well actually, I can somewhat speak it but my rolling of r's is still hard.

 

[omega 616]

To be honest, I am not sure I know what a rolling R sounds like ... is it when your tongue bounces off the roof of your mouth and makes a sounds like you stuck a playing card in the spokes of your bike?

I can't say either way 'cos I have been speaking for many a year and never really tried to learn another language (kind of had to in school but all I can do is count in German).

 

[shadowstriker86]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

I'm actually in the same position as you, in that I'm hoping to teach in Japan once I've had a few more years building up a bedrock of savings. Personally, I found the 'rolling R' thing to come pretty naturally. I think it really depends on the person.

Good luck with the teaching, by the way.

Thank you but how much is a "bedrock of savings"? lol

 

[AngloDoom]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

I'm actually in the same position as you, in that I'm hoping to teach in Japan once I've had a few more years building up a bedrock of savings. Personally, I found the 'rolling R' thing to come pretty naturally. I think it really depends on the person.

Good luck with the teaching, by the way.

Thank you but how much is a "bedrock of savings"? lol

My idea is to get about £3000-£4000 ($4500-$6000) saved up, since one of the issues that can arise when you head to Japan is that you get paid at the beginning of the month. If you start work on the 2nd and everyone gets paid on the 1st, you go a month without any income. Plus, there are travel expenses, Visas, buying any little bits and bobs that will be necessary, and due to an entirely different electrical system (Japanese plugs run from 100V, rather than most of Europe being at around 220V, but I believe for the US it rests around 120V) perhaps some new appliances, and, of course, accommodation and commuting around Japan in general.

Really, I'm going to spend a year or two full-time working so I have something to fall back on. Plus it gives me more time to learn the language and writing systems while making sure that the whole thing is exactly what I want

EDIT - Converted GBP to USD to make things a little easier.

 

[DustyDrB]

I suddenly found myself singing "La la la la" to the tune of the Meow Mix song. That's a totally appropriate reaction to this thread, right?

On rolling "r"'s: I can do it, but terribly. I sound like a hungry alien when I do it. I exhale way too much.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

I'm suddenly struggling to think of words in Cantonese that start with an 'r'... and now that I ponder it, I don't think there are... s'why Chinese people have just as much trouble with 'r' and 'l' sounds as Japanese people. Constantly comes out as 'ah-ro' and 'eh-ru' or something dumb like that. And that probably explains why my spoken German can sometimes sound butchered.

Anyway, I can roll my r's, but it depends on the vowel sound that comes after it e.g. 'right' is fine, 'rule' is not.

*shrug*

 

[shadowstriker86]

Bit of an odd question. So i'm trying to teach my gf how to say a few words in japanese but she can't roll her R's. it's been 20 min. and she's not even close. I'm also applying for teaching positions in japan to be an english teacher so i know the issue of L's is gonna come up, what do you guys think is harder?

I'm actually in the same position as you, in that I'm hoping to teach in Japan once I've had a few more years building up a bedrock of savings. Personally, I found the 'rolling R' thing to come pretty naturally. I think it really depends on the person.

Good luck with the teaching, by the way.

Thank you but how much is a "bedrock of savings"? lol

My idea is to get about £3000-£4000 ($4500-$6000) saved up, since one of the issues that can arise when you head to Japan is that you get paid at the beginning of the month. If you start work on the 2nd and everyone gets paid on the 1st, you go a month without any income. Plus, there are travel expenses, Visas, buying any little bits and bobs that will be necessary, and due to an entirely different electrical system (Japanese plugs run from 100V, rather than most of Europe being at around 220V, but I believe for the US it rests around 120V) perhaps some new appliances, and, of course, accommodation and commuting around Japan in general.

Really, I'm going to spend a year or two full-time working so I have something to fall back on. Plus it gives me more time to learn the language and writing systems while making sure that the whole thing is exactly what I want

EDIT - Converted GBP to USD to make things a little easier.

ah i see, funny cause i knew i had to save up some backup cash but i never thought about it on the scale that you have lol looks like i owe you another thanks cause now i have more stuff to put on my checklist

 

[TheVioletBandit]

I'm Welsh, the rolling r is a letter in the alphabet of my native tongue, and I can't do it.
Live in England now, so it's no big deal, but I spent the best part of a decade completely incapable of speaking my own language properly.

As an artistic endeavor I have been constructing a language that is primarily based on Welsh, Gaelic, and a little bit of Finnish. Anyway, although I have dictionaries, finding good pronunciation guides has been very difficult, so I have a few questions for you if you'll humor me.

My first question is this: In a word where "w" comes directly after a consonant like the word "mwmci" how does the "w" sound? Is it like the "w" in the English word "what" or different? Also, how is the "c" in that word pronounced, does it sound like a "k" or like an "s" or something else entirely?

My second question is: In a word like "dyn" how is the "y" pronounced? Does it sound like the "y" in the English word "yellow" or does it sound more like the Spanish "i" which makes a "ee" sound like "keep" or something else?