EDIT 2: It just won't fix. Here's the corrected Poll options:
"Yes, there's no kill like overkill and I like to OHKO bosses."
"No, So long as you don't run away, you should be adequeately levelled."
I recently got into a debate about Persona 4.
The argument they made was that the first dungeon is the hardest in the game. Why? Resource management. It's right at the start, you don't have access to (very expensive) SP healing, and they were all mad that they couldn't just grind by spamming their strongest skills nonstop and still clear the dungeon in a single in-game-day. As for the boss? "Baaawww, it has fire spells, I have someone weak to fire! They get an extra turn for exploiting her weakness and wipe me out!" Uh, except that there's a clear pattern to this attack, and simply defending on the right turns nullifies that weakness....
Let me explain. Each new character joins at +10 levels over the last one, roughly. After the initial 3, the next joins at 15, then 25, then 35, etc. So a good rule of thumb is 10 levels per dungeon. These guys were arguing that the fault lies entirely with me for not grinding for thinking the game DOESN'T get easier as it progresses, and that my logic of "Level 75 is a good point for here" means nothing compared to their level 90 suggestion. In fact, some of them argued that my "easy" way of tackling the first dungeon was only making my life harder since I wasn't grinding.
So I asked them. "Have you guys ever tried playing smart? Do you ever use defense and evasion buffs? I'm not expecting everyone to have 20 years of RPG experience or anything, but it still seems like common sense to me." Their response was that I had zero right to complain about grinding in RPGs. If I really had 20+ years of RPG experience, I would know the genre is nothing BUT grinding. And this honestly made me mad, because of how newer RPGs are.
In a lot of newer games, it degrades into nothing but abhorrent grindfests. "Oh, you can't advance until you collect 30 of these, which due to your bad luck, seem to have a .02% drop rate!" "Oh, you need this arbitrarily decided level if you want to proceed, even if you just beat 5 enemies who are double that level single handedly!" It really irks me. I have more important things to do than grind for level requirements in SINGLE PLAYER OFFLINE GAMES, ESPECIALLY on EQUIPMENT.
Traditionally, I found that in RPGs, you were 100% fine on the condition that you don't run. If enemies near the start overwhelm you, retreat to the home town, use the inn, and set out again. But only IF. You'd never, ever need to grind, and grinding would actually take all the fun out of boss gimmicks! (Imagine the Antlion in FF4. Counters physical attacks but not magic, right? Imagine if you were so overlevelled that you didn't care and just attacked with everyone. Takes the strategy right out of it.)
So... I thought I'd ask you guys. What are your thoughts on RPGs? Do you really only play them to waste hours of your life on mindless grinding? Do you play them for the emphasis on strategy over execution? Do you play them for the story (like I do?) And above all else, do you believe that just because something is an RPG, that grinding should be expected?
EDIT: Btw, Escapist staff, your polls hate apostrophes. In case you didn't know.
"Yes, there's no kill like overkill and I like to OHKO bosses."
"No, So long as you don't run away, you should be adequeately levelled."
I recently got into a debate about Persona 4.
The argument they made was that the first dungeon is the hardest in the game. Why? Resource management. It's right at the start, you don't have access to (very expensive) SP healing, and they were all mad that they couldn't just grind by spamming their strongest skills nonstop and still clear the dungeon in a single in-game-day. As for the boss? "Baaawww, it has fire spells, I have someone weak to fire! They get an extra turn for exploiting her weakness and wipe me out!" Uh, except that there's a clear pattern to this attack, and simply defending on the right turns nullifies that weakness....
Let me explain. Each new character joins at +10 levels over the last one, roughly. After the initial 3, the next joins at 15, then 25, then 35, etc. So a good rule of thumb is 10 levels per dungeon. These guys were arguing that the fault lies entirely with me for not grinding for thinking the game DOESN'T get easier as it progresses, and that my logic of "Level 75 is a good point for here" means nothing compared to their level 90 suggestion. In fact, some of them argued that my "easy" way of tackling the first dungeon was only making my life harder since I wasn't grinding.
So I asked them. "Have you guys ever tried playing smart? Do you ever use defense and evasion buffs? I'm not expecting everyone to have 20 years of RPG experience or anything, but it still seems like common sense to me." Their response was that I had zero right to complain about grinding in RPGs. If I really had 20+ years of RPG experience, I would know the genre is nothing BUT grinding. And this honestly made me mad, because of how newer RPGs are.
In a lot of newer games, it degrades into nothing but abhorrent grindfests. "Oh, you can't advance until you collect 30 of these, which due to your bad luck, seem to have a .02% drop rate!" "Oh, you need this arbitrarily decided level if you want to proceed, even if you just beat 5 enemies who are double that level single handedly!" It really irks me. I have more important things to do than grind for level requirements in SINGLE PLAYER OFFLINE GAMES, ESPECIALLY on EQUIPMENT.
Traditionally, I found that in RPGs, you were 100% fine on the condition that you don't run. If enemies near the start overwhelm you, retreat to the home town, use the inn, and set out again. But only IF. You'd never, ever need to grind, and grinding would actually take all the fun out of boss gimmicks! (Imagine the Antlion in FF4. Counters physical attacks but not magic, right? Imagine if you were so overlevelled that you didn't care and just attacked with everyone. Takes the strategy right out of it.)
So... I thought I'd ask you guys. What are your thoughts on RPGs? Do you really only play them to waste hours of your life on mindless grinding? Do you play them for the emphasis on strategy over execution? Do you play them for the story (like I do?) And above all else, do you believe that just because something is an RPG, that grinding should be expected?
EDIT: Btw, Escapist staff, your polls hate apostrophes. In case you didn't know.
