Poll: Scottish independence - yay or nay?

[Mandalore_15]

In case you hadn't heard, the SNP just got a metric f***tonne of votes at the recent elections and it's looking likely there will be a referendum on Scottish independence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13330641

I'm personally against independence. I consider myself to be quite patriotic in some ways (although not in a blind, idiotic way like citizens of SOME countries we could mention...), but I think this would be a bad move. Why? Well first off, I think it would really knacker Scotland's economy! Really, there's not enough infrastructure in place for it to support itself. This is probably all due to being part of the UK and the UK's economy being centered in London, but the damage is done now. Building a prosperous country would be damned difficult at this point.

There are other problems to think about as well, like how people would react to the setting up of border controls, what Scotland would do with its standing armed forces, and even just what would happen when they get cut off the national grid!

A lot of people will be against it for ideological reasons, although frankly I think they're preposterous. I can't think of a good reason to deny people who want it their right to self government (particularly when England doesn't really get anything out of it, as it's a bit of a money-pit). Still, if you disagree with me please write your views in a post, I'd be interested to read them.

 

[gyllybug]

It sounds like a great idea on paper, and I can just see the staunch supporters of it lining up along the border with blue paint on their faces, screaming "FREEDOM!" as per Mel Gibson's atrocious Braveheart (I hate that film like no other) but I agree, we can't necessarily support ourselves, not at such short notice.

It would take a LOT of setting up and the SNP would have to be absolutely 100% certain that we could carry on as we are now as an independent country before they took any steps to cut ties. Things like NHS - it doesn't fund itself, and as far as I'm aware we'd lose that if we became independent. I don't think the SNP could do all that before being voted out.

I'll admit I don't really know enough about politics to properly share an opinion, but most of the people I've spoken to don't want independence, and since it'll come down to a vote, I don't see "the people" allowing it to happen.

For this reason, I'm picking "no for some other reason".

 

[Folix]

i don't see scottish independence benefiting either scotland or the rest of the uk, sure seperatists might grumble about freedom and stuff but there's always the old addage "together we stand, divided we fall"

i say this as a not particularly patriotic English person

 

[Wadders]

I victory for the SNP does not mean that the Scots want independence. I'm pretty sure there's a majority of them that don't want it.

I dont know enough about politics to elaborate, but I can't really see how it would benefit the rest off the UK greatly, so I'll say nay.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

You can't leave!

The Scotts, along with the Welsh and Irish are the few people who the English share a sense of humour with! The British aren't as funny without the cynical Scotts!

 

[WorldCritic]

Please don't leave. The U.K. just wouldn't be the same without Scotland.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

I voted SNP at this election but that doesnt mean i want independance, same with most people i know.
Personally, i think the whole independance thing is a gimmick, and most SNP members dont actually want it, its just a thing they say.. which is why they've been putting off a referendum for so long.

 

[Sixcess]

I've never taken the SNP seriously since their then leader wouldn't shut up about Braveheart - a (historically innacurate) US funded movie directed by an australian and shot primarily in Ireland.

Economically it would be catastrophic. North Sea oil is mostly owned by foreign interests and our heavy industry is a shadow of what it once was. We'd become, at best, a third rate nation with zero influence propped up by EU subsidies.

To a degree I could have seen the point of it in the 80s/early 90s, when Thatcher's government had completely written off the idea of getting any worthwhile support north of the border and so felt free to use Scotland as a testing ground for appalling ideas like the Poll Tax because they know they just couldn't become any more unpopular, but those days are long gone.

 

[Mandalore_15]

There's no way in hell any of their MP's would actually let this happen.

TBH. I'm sick of this ridiculous nationalism that you see being pushed around parts of Scotland and NI. This isn't the freaking dark ages. We're stronger as a union and no one is being maltreated. They're just holding on to some ridiculous notion of freedom when they're already free.

I don't like extreme patriotism at the best of times, but when it threatens to pretty much shake up the balance we've managed to achieve, it borders on the manic.

I think if the referendum happened and Scotland voted "yes", the only moral thing to do WOULD be to let it happen. Otherwise, how can we say we live in a democracy?

I think it's easy enough to say that nationalism is small-minded and archaic when you're not the one experiencing it. I never begrudge people the desire to govern their own affairs. The reason I'm against independence is because I think it would leave the people of Scotland worse off. If they wanted it and it didn't (hell, even if it did anyway), they should be allowed it in my opinion.

sure seperatists might grumble about freedom and stuff but there's always the old addage "together we stand, divided we fall"

I don't think independence would mean a lack of cooperation between Scotland and England. It's likely they would continue to work together on many issues that affect us both.

You can't leave!

The Scotts, along with the Welsh and Irish are the few people who the English share a sense of humour with! The British aren't as funny without the cynical Scotts!

... there's no real denying this. =P

 

[Extravagance]

Yay. Let them have it, see how quickly it goes to hell when Scotland isn't being backed up by the English tax system and economy.

 

[Tiger Sora]

I'd like to see how England would fair without the Scots and Irish. The Welsh would never leave I think.
But I'd be interesting.

 

[Mandalore_15]

Sorry lads sometimes independence isn't about wether you can sustain yourself but more about wanting to support your own rule.

I said it before I'll say it again : Look at Ireland

It's a nice cockup... but it's OUR cockup
[sub]PS if Scotland goes independend scat free can we get compensation payments for the hit the irish country has taken cause the brits felt like hugging belfast and all the industry there? [/sub]

I don't want to comment too much on the whole Ireland/UK controversy, but I think your situation was a bit different to ours in that you were probably better prepared to bounce back than Scotland is right now with its benefit rates so high.

I think that independence at the cost of lowering your people's quality of life is a hollow victory, but that's just me. I wouldn't want my people to have to go through that, especially with the way the world economy is right now.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

They should have their freedom if it will stop them moaning about 'English oppression', and not being able to use their dodgey notes south of the border. /joke

On a serious note while I'm not up to speed on the ins and outs of the independence vote, I can't help but feel this will a bad effect on the economy of scotland. I mean scotland can't build multi-million pound parliment buildings that no one needed when England isn't sending the checks anymore. Also how would the currency work because I'd assume their not going to use pound anymore, would they go euro or make a new currency?

 

[Mandalore_15]

There's no way in hell any of their MP's would actually let this happen.

TBH. I'm sick of this ridiculous nationalism that you see being pushed around parts of Scotland and NI. This isn't the freaking dark ages. We're stronger as a union and no one is being maltreated. They're just holding on to some ridiculous notion of freedom when they're already free.

I don't like extreme patriotism at the best of times, but when it threatens to pretty much shake up the balance we've managed to achieve, it borders on the manic.

I think if the referendum happened and Scotland voted "yes", the only moral thing to do WOULD be to let it happen. Otherwise, how can we say we live in a democracy?

I think it's easy enough to say that nationalism is small-minded and archaic when you're not the one experiencing it. I never begrudge people the desire to govern their own affairs. The reason I'm against independence is because I think it would leave the people of Scotland worse off. If they wanted it and it didn't (hell, even if it did anyway), they should be allowed it in my opinion.

We don't live in a true democracy anyway. Not with the way our voting system works.

We are the ones experiencing nationalism. Whens the last time you heard an Englishman say 'I'm sick of being lumped in with these Scots?'

Scotland are just as well off, if not better in some ways, as any other country in the UK. The people who clamour for independence don't actually have a reason beyond pure nationalism.

Breaking up the UK is a moronic idea and I severely doubt any MP in Scotland would allow it to happen.

Yeah, OK, I voted for AV too...

I didn't mean "experience" it in that way. What I meant was you've never felt as though you're subordinate to another country's rule (unless you're a Eurosceptic, but that's for another thread). And to be honest I've been given a fair bit of shit from Englishmen over a few things related to these kind of issues. I live in England and have was once threatened out a pub by some drunk arseholes who said I wasn't fit to be here... not a common occurrence I'm sure, but it did happen.

But yeah, I agree with you that it's a bad idea, but if it's what the people want (which I doubt) I think they should have it.

 

[The Red Spy]

In case you hadn't heard, the SNP just got a metric f***tonne of votes at the recent elections and it's looking likely there will be a referendum on Scottish independence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13330641

I'm personally against independence. I consider myself to be quite patriotic in some ways (although not in a blind, idiotic way like citizens of SOME countries we could mention...), but I think this would be a bad move. Why? Well first off, I think it would really knacker Scotland's economy! Really, there's not enough infrastructure in place for it to support itself. This is probably all due to being part of the UK and the UK's economy being centered in London, but the damage is done now. Building a prosperous country would be damned difficult at this point.

There are other problems to think about as well, like how people would react to the setting up of border controls, what Scotland would do with its standing armed forces, and even just what would happen when they get cut off the national grid!

A lot of people will be against it for ideological reasons, although frankly I think they're preposterous. I can't think of a good reason to deny people who want it their right to self government (particularly when England doesn't really get anything out of it, as it's a bit of a money-pit). Still, if you disagree with me please write your views in a post, I'd be interested to read them.

The brunt of the Irish economy was based in belfast and the surrounding area, we gave that up for our independence.

That doesn't mean the Irish are stupid it means sometimes people just want to be free, Scotland has a heritage just as big as the Irish one and there's people wanting to protect and gain that.


Sorry lads sometimes independence isn't about wether you can sustain yourself but more about wanting to support your own rule.

I said it before I'll say it again : Look at Ireland

It's a nice cockup... but it's OUR cockup
[sub]PS if Scotland goes independend scat free can we get compensation payments for the hit the irish country has taken cause the brits felt like hugging belfast and all the industry there? [/sub]

Nice idea, I'm fairly sure those Scot's who are currently on NHS care lists will be very happy about their nice cockup when their government is no longer able to afford their methods of treatment (at least to the standard they receive now), or maybe the potential for power cuts and increased costs in natural resources, and how the resulting tax hikes from their own government to try and cover the loss of funds from the seperation might just be muted by the glorious split.

Ireland is facing economic ruin, even after the full backing of the EU and continued intervention of the UK. It's often vacant or even uncompleted housing estates offer a grand view of Irelands current climate, and more of the model on what-not-to-do than role model.

If you still feel England is a colonial power bent on rule over all nations within our reach, please update your archaic view on us, we released a Facebook status last week denouncing that.

Could you also elaborate on how not being part of the UK will have a marked effort on preserving heritage? I'm interested in hearing a well thought out arguement disproving how the removal of funding from less essential areas such as heritage conservation and awareness to cover the deficit in cash flow to try and juggle healthcare, housing and industry might be somehow be good for a nations culture.

 

[Zantos]

I don't think they'd go for full independence. Probably just try get more freedom for the Scottish parliament to handle it's domestic affairs instead of having to go through London for it. Not independence, just decreased reliance.