Poll: Sexy convention costumes - okay to stare?

[DementedSheep]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. For example thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

 

[Erttheking]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

There's a difference between a woman wanting glances of approval and being asked if they would be ok with a photo being taken and someone stalking them. That's more or less what the issue is here. Also staring is just rude in general.

Also, as someone who is socially awkward, there's a massive difference between being socially awkward and acting like a social predator. Trust me, I know how it feels to be awkward around girls, believe me I've been there. And frankly I find that when I'm in that situation I can't even look at them without feeling like I'm about to die of embarrassment.

 

[Something Amyss]

It should be okay to look. Just don't be a creep about it.

 

[DementedSheep]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

Staring isn't illegal and whether it is or isn't illegal is irreverent if we talking about opinion and morality.

"I want to be able to everything I want but don't want to deal with any consequences of my actions and you're not allowed to react to it unless I want you to".

 

[Erttheking]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

Staring isn't illegal and whether it is or isn't illegal is irreverent if we talking about opinion and morality.

"I want to be able to everything I want but don't want to deal with any consequences of my actions and you're not allowed to react to it unless I want you to".

Sexual harassment is, therefore if you do it repetitively, it's illegal. But fair enough, if it happens once it isn't illegal. Doesn't stop it from being rude though.

Is it too much to ask for a little common decency from men? I've never found it to be very hard. Also any consequences of actions? Is being harassed supposed to be expected for dressing provocatively? I think that says more about men than it does women.

 

[Smooth Operator]

It's not actually a gender issue, if any man went and squeezed himself in some of the barely legal outfits ladies put on they would get just as many stares and creepy comments, probably more.

Ah. It a unisex issue that only affects one sex, sort of like how police profiling isn't a racial issue because they'd do it to white people too if we made ourselves look black or Hispanic.

Yes, it would be nice if people didn't judge, but our evolution isn't there yet, not by a long shot.

Placing a greater onus on the women than the troglodytes seems pretty fucked up to me.

Well I must apologise then, if I knew this was going down the gender war march I would never have engaged in this insanity. So I take it all back.

 

[Colour Scientist]

It should be okay to look. Just don't be a creep about it.

You'd think that would be quite a simple concept to grasp.

I don't know, if you have to ask yourself if you're staring too much, you probably are.

I'm not trying to say that everyone whose gaze lingers a bit is a creep but I don't think some people in this thread grasp how intimidating being stared down or ogled can be in certain situations or how uncomfortable it can make people feel.

It's not a punishable offence but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have some common courtesy and just not do it.

 

[Something Amyss]

You'd think that would be quite a simple concept to grasp.

Yes, but years on the internet have taught me that if there's no definitive hard line or a flow chart, many people will be confused by such a concept. It would be easier if we could codify some "five second rule," but "don't make people uncomfortable" appears to be some advanced kung fu.

I don't know, if you have to ask yourself if you're staring too much, you probably are.

I have to be honest, I'm so ridiculously self conscious that if I look for even a split second I often wonder if I've gone too far. Then again, I'm damaged on the other end of the spectrum, too, and feel uncomfortable at the slightest bit of attention. I would hope this isn't common, but there probably really are people out there who have some level of issue.

On the other hand, I understand that I'm not normal. On the other hand, especially amongst geek groups, you have various level of social issues and even dysfunction. On the other hand...Crap, I'm running out of hands.

I guess I'm sort of hoping that the people who ask this sort of thing are doing as such in good faith and with consideration. It sounds like the people who don't get the idea of courtesy and respect are the ones who are also justifying leering or whatever.

I'm not trying to say that everyone who's gaze lingers a bit is a creep but I don't think some people in this thread grasp how intimidating being stared down or ogled can be in certain situations or how uncomfortable it can make people feel.

It's not a punishable offence but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have some common courtesy and just not do it.

Unfortunately, "common courtesy" isn't all that common.

I would also hope that people would be reasonable enough that the concept of "making someone uncomfortable" doesn't immediately play out as a judgment call against that person, but....I've been on the internet for too long to believe that, either.

Sorry for the rambling., It's 2 AM here and I should probably have gone to bed a while ago.

 

[VoidWanderer]

So... this is one of those 'Minefield' threads...

IMO: Look, but don't be creepy about it. If you do like the costume because of attention to detail, tell the cosplayer that that is why you like it, and look at their face while you do so.

 

[DementedSheep]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

Staring isn't illegal and whether it is or isn't illegal is irreverent if we talking about opinion and morality.

"I want to be able to everything I want but don't want to deal with any consequences of my actions and you're not allowed to react to it unless I want you to".

Sexual harassment is, therefore if you do it repetitively, it's illegal. But fair enough, if it happens once it isn't illegal. Doesn't stop it from being rude though.

Is it too much to ask for a little common decency from men? I've never found it to be very hard. Also any consequences of actions? Is being harassed supposed to be expected for dressing provocatively? I think that says more about men than it does women.

If you dressing provocatively (especially if we are talking video game character level provocative) provoking a sexual reaction from the opposite sex is an expected consequence (and often the point) so you should have thought about that beforehand if you aren't cool with that.

 

[Erttheking]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

Staring isn't illegal and whether it is or isn't illegal is irreverent if we talking about opinion and morality.

"I want to be able to everything I want but don't want to deal with any consequences of my actions and you're not allowed to react to it unless I want you to".

Sexual harassment is, therefore if you do it repetitively, it's illegal. But fair enough, if it happens once it isn't illegal. Doesn't stop it from being rude though.

Is it too much to ask for a little common decency from men? I've never found it to be very hard. Also any consequences of actions? Is being harassed supposed to be expected for dressing provocatively? I think that says more about men than it does women.

If you dressing provocatively (especially if we are talking video game character level provocative) provoking a sexual reaction from the opposite sex is an expected consequence (and often the point) so you should have thought about that beforehand if you aren't cool with that.

That is not the only reaction that skimpily dressed outfits can draw. I don't get why people always assume that dressing to show off a bit of skin is a green light to throw everything that was ever taught to a person about being respectful and civil to others out of the window. And we're supposed to just let it go because "Well what were they expecting?" If the sight of tits is enough to turn men into drooling neanderthals with no respect to other human beings, and it isn't a habit that needs to be dropped like a ton of bricks, then frankly I give up on my gender.

 

[Vault101]

] If you dressing provocatively (especially if we are talking video game character level provocative) provoking a sexual reaction from the opposite sex is an expected consequence (and often the point) so you should have thought about that beforehand if you aren't cool with that.

and what kind of consequence are we talking about? because touching and harrasment (following trying to talk to in an inaprpriate manner) is NOT ok period

I'll admit that looking is a grey area...but people should just able to be discreet about it FFS

Edit: Seriously though, wasn't there a time in the world where commenting on how attractive someone was to you, male or female, by complimenting their outfit, appearance or what have you, was considered not only acceptable, but flattering?
.

there is a difference and if somone can;t see it then they should probably shut their mouths

On the other hand, I understand that I'm not normal. On the other hand, especially amongst geek groups, you have various level of social issues and even dysfunction. On the other hand...Crap, I'm running out of hands.
.

I'm sure there's a Nintendo64 controller joke here somwhere...

 

[DementedSheep]

Eh you know what? stare at them as much as you like. If they don't like the attention then they should put some actual clothes on next time.

So basically what you're saying is that she was asking for it?

Yep! obviously this does not extend to justifying rape and molestation if that is what you are getting at.

And you don't see any similarities between that and people who argue that the woman that they raped were asking for it because of the way they dressed? Because it sounds pretty similar to me.

Staring is not rape. Not everything is all is all or nothing. Thinking someone deserves to punch in the face doesn't mean you think they deserve to be murdered.

And all four of those things are illegal. They do not deserve to be justified in anyway. Staring is sexual harassment. Is it as bad as rape? No. Does that make it anymore justifiable? No. If a woman doesn't want you to stare at her, you do not stare at her. I don't care how much of a tease she's being.

Staring isn't illegal and whether it is or isn't illegal is irreverent if we talking about opinion and morality.

"I want to be able to everything I want but don't want to deal with any consequences of my actions and you're not allowed to react to it unless I want you to".

Sexual harassment is, therefore if you do it repetitively, it's illegal. But fair enough, if it happens once it isn't illegal. Doesn't stop it from being rude though.

Is it too much to ask for a little common decency from men? I've never found it to be very hard. Also any consequences of actions? Is being harassed supposed to be expected for dressing provocatively? I think that says more about men than it does women.

If you dressing provocatively (especially if we are talking video game character level provocative) provoking a sexual reaction from the opposite sex is an expected consequence (and often the point) so you should have thought about that beforehand if you aren't cool with that.

That is not the only reaction that skimpily dressed outfits can draw. I don't get why people always assume that dressing to show off a bit of skin is a green light to throw everything that was ever taught to a person about being respectful and civil to others out of the window. And we're supposed to just let it go because "Well what were they expecting?" If the sight of tits is enough to turn men into drooling neanderthals with no respect to other human beings, and it isn't a habit that needs to be dropped like a ton of bricks, then frankly I give up on my gender.

Well join the club because I've given up on mine. If you want respect you should probably present yourself in a way that warrants it.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

So you're saying that the way someone dresses is a good justification to not respect them? How does that make any sense? Frankly it sounds like slut shamming.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I won't lie. She had my full attention.

Edit: Seriously though, wasn't there a time in the world where commenting on how attractive someone was to you, male or female, by complimenting their outfit, appearance or what have you, was considered not only acceptable, but flattering?

I'm a little tired of being called "acting rapey" or an "Objectifier" If I dare to say that a woman is attractive.

Hell I've never even bothered for the most part, because I'm literally scared to death I will be physically attacked.

This isn't about simply complimenting someone or having a look, it's about staring inappropriately or making unwarranted lewd comments.

It's not necessary to exaggerate and claim that people are berating you for saying that a woman is attractive.
No one here has suggested that.

 

[Vault101]

Well join the club because I've given up on mine. If you want respect you should probably present yourself in a way that warrants it.

who gets to deicde who has the right to respect and who doesnt'?

who gets to deicde that a woman who wears a certain outfit isn't worthy of respect? what is she then? an object? a peice of meat and fair game for anyone to grope/leer at because she hasn't dressed in the aporpriate way as dertemined by who?

[snip.

"is this something I wouldn't say to a guy?" no? then don't say it