Yes. After all, why would someone want to financially support a cause which they don't feel they can vouch for?
Poll: Should a creator's opinion matter for a work?
- Thread starter Professor James
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As I said the last time this was discussed, which was about a week ago (read: use the search bar). It depends on the opinion. I can vote for a different political party than someone I admire, I can buy the books written by someone with different opinions. It's NOT a binary yes or no.
Now I have already written an extensive post about this so I wont bother to say any more.
Now I have already written an extensive post about this so I wont bother to say any more.
Fans are fans, they haven't got any weight to say how something should be. If they don't like it, then they wont support it. If there is a conscience decision about the way that something is.
I don't know if people actually know what 'artistic integrity' actually means.
I don't know if people actually know what 'artistic integrity' actually means.
Depends on how it's supposed to matter.
Does it matter when it comes to what you take out of a work of art? No, that's up to each individual of the audience.
Does it matter when it comes to what the author intended the work to say? Of course, they created it, they know best what they meant it to say. (doesn't mean that's what the audience understands it to be of course)
Does it matter when it comes to whether you should buy it or not? Depends totally on whether you think you want to support the author financially, and whether you like it. If you don't like a work because the author used it to preach some political opinion you don't like, don't buy. Where the difference to disliking it for any other reason? If you want to boycott a person because you find their political stance abhorrent, don't buy. Where's the difference in boycotting an artist or any other profession?
It's your right as a customer to spend money on what you damn well please and only on what pleases you damn well. And art is meant for enjoyment, if you don't enjoy it, for whatever reason, don't buy. You don't owe the artist anything. If an artist creates something that no-one ends up liking that's the risk they take as part of their profession.
Does it matter when it comes to what you take out of a work of art? No, that's up to each individual of the audience.
Does it matter when it comes to what the author intended the work to say? Of course, they created it, they know best what they meant it to say. (doesn't mean that's what the audience understands it to be of course)
Does it matter when it comes to whether you should buy it or not? Depends totally on whether you think you want to support the author financially, and whether you like it. If you don't like a work because the author used it to preach some political opinion you don't like, don't buy. Where the difference to disliking it for any other reason? If you want to boycott a person because you find their political stance abhorrent, don't buy. Where's the difference in boycotting an artist or any other profession?
It's your right as a customer to spend money on what you damn well please and only on what pleases you damn well. And art is meant for enjoyment, if you don't enjoy it, for whatever reason, don't buy. You don't owe the artist anything. If an artist creates something that no-one ends up liking that's the risk they take as part of their profession.
Well lets take a more extreme example. Let's look at a lot of older art. We don't know if they were racist, sexist, homophobic or anything else really.
Should their opinions matter? No
Do they matter? Yes
The truth is that I can appreciate someone's talents without the need to like or agree with the person.
However, I may end up choosing not to finance their art because of their values. It's similar to boycotting new EA games because of EA's practices even though I may find the products they publish enjoyable.
Should their opinions matter? No
Do they matter? Yes
The truth is that I can appreciate someone's talents without the need to like or agree with the person.
However, I may end up choosing not to finance their art because of their values. It's similar to boycotting new EA games because of EA's practices even though I may find the products they publish enjoyable.
Stephen King is almost a militant atheist, a huge supporter of gun control, and a super liberal, all of which I despise with my soul but I have read most of his books (still trying to get into the Dark Tower, just can't get through the Gunslinger). As long as he makes a good story, I don't give a damn about his opinion.
Wow, exact 50/50 split with 37 votes each, never seen that before.
Yes it matters to me, however I can still accept and even enjoy something despite its creator but I just don't want my money going to someone like Orson Scott Card.
Yes it matters to me, however I can still accept and even enjoy something despite its creator but I just don't want my money going to someone like Orson Scott Card.
The author's opinions matter only on their work.
For example; J.K. Rowling is on the record as saying Dumbledore is gay.
This is never stated in the books, but it is never denied either.
I am of the opinion, that this means he's gay in the books.
For example; J.K. Rowling is on the record as saying Dumbledore is gay.
This is never stated in the books, but it is never denied either.
I am of the opinion, that this means he's gay in the books.
Why should it matter for books when it clearly doesn't for other art forms e.g. despite allegations of child abuse both Michael Jackson's music and Roman Polanski's films are still popular today. If the book/ film/ song is good it is good regardless of who made it. If people don't want their money going to these people tbe here are alternatives e.g. buying pre-owned (also tends to be cheaper) or even just borrowing from someone who has that particular book/ film/ song.
In the same way that a book by a revered individual isn't automatically good a book by someone with negative or prejudiced views isn't automatically bad.
In the same way that a book by a revered individual isn't automatically good a book by someone with negative or prejudiced views isn't automatically bad.
No. The 'death of the author' has been a thing for a long time now, and the whole field of literary criticism would probably collapse to a fraction of its current size without it. If we don't even let the author have the final say in what the work is about (remember when Ray Bradbury said that Fahrenheit 451 wasn't about censorship, and then everybody flat out told him he was wrong?), then why should anything else about them be taken into account?
Um... well...
Orson Scott Card has written some of my favorite books.
I loved the Ender's Game books (Well, the first second and fourth ones) And it wasn't until far later that I learned of his homophobia.
I hate homophobes, and I didn't buy that game that he wrote the script for because of that. (It was weird because I never even would have considered buying it if he hadn't wrote it, but so it goes)
I want to see the Ender's Game movie. I think it's well cast (Even though Paul Giamatti would make a better Graff than Harrison Ford)
I just don't want to pay for it.
Orson Scott Card has written some of my favorite books.
I loved the Ender's Game books (Well, the first second and fourth ones) And it wasn't until far later that I learned of his homophobia.
I hate homophobes, and I didn't buy that game that he wrote the script for because of that. (It was weird because I never even would have considered buying it if he hadn't wrote it, but so it goes)
I want to see the Ender's Game movie. I think it's well cast (Even though Paul Giamatti would make a better Graff than Harrison Ford)
I just don't want to pay for it.
I don't know really.
I mean OSC donates to anti gay marriage organisations, so I can see why some people wouldn't want to buy his stuff.
But if an author has views you don't support but they don't act on those views I don't see why you shouldn't buy their stuff though.
I mean OSC donates to anti gay marriage organisations, so I can see why some people wouldn't want to buy his stuff.
But if an author has views you don't support but they don't act on those views I don't see why you shouldn't buy their stuff though.
Oh look, THIS again.
Ethics, huh.
Does OSC's view on homosexuality...
... add or remove anything from his books? No.
... alter the perceived value of his books? Yes, to the extent and way the buyer feels about them.
... provide a legitimate reason to avoid his work? Yes.
... provide a legitimate reason to experience his work without compensating him for it? No.
I do like how most users openly claim that they would not or will not PAY for his work. But that's what it apparently comes down to. Whether the MODERATORS consider this a talk of inciting PIRACY - which they SHOULD - is up to them.
I made an Orson Scott Card fan club group here: www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Orson-Scott-Card-Fan-Club
Feel free to join.
Ethics, huh.
Does OSC's view on homosexuality...
... add or remove anything from his books? No.
... alter the perceived value of his books? Yes, to the extent and way the buyer feels about them.
... provide a legitimate reason to avoid his work? Yes.
... provide a legitimate reason to experience his work without compensating him for it? No.
I do like how most users openly claim that they would not or will not PAY for his work. But that's what it apparently comes down to. Whether the MODERATORS consider this a talk of inciting PIRACY - which they SHOULD - is up to them.
I made an Orson Scott Card fan club group here: www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Orson-Scott-Card-Fan-Club
Feel free to join.
That's rarely the case. There's no better expert on any work than a die-hard fan.briankoontz said:
Only one person has directly mentioned 'not wanting to pay them for it' and another kind-of-sort-of-not-really using EA as an example, nobody has really been encouraging piracy. Although, I can't speak for them, but I can speak for me. When I say that I don't want my money going to Orson Scott Card, that's all that I mean. I have not read Ender's Game and I don't intend to. I don't intend on seeing the movie, I don't intend on reading any of his books, I don't intend on reading that comic he's working on. As it stands, the only time that I'll -ever- pick up anything he's worked on is when he steps down as a board member of the NOM and stops being active on his views, or he dies and can thus no longer be active by virtue of being dead.somonels said:
Maybe I'll get to read Ender's Game by the time I'm fifty. Here's to hoping as I've heard it's a good book.
Edit: In essence, I'm just not going to support him in any single damn way. Even pirating his book and reading it would count as that in my eyes.
It depends on the opinion and the creator's activeness in supporting that opinion. For someone as extreme in opposing gay marriage rights as Orson Scott Card, it would both make me enjoy his work less than I might have and not want to give him any financial support. For a creator who just says some douchey comments every one in a while, or who disagrees with me on some more minor issue, I can ignore it and just focus on the work as its own entity. If I avoided every work whose creator I disagreed with politically, I would only have a tiny handful of books and movies to choose from, and most of them wouldn't exactly be riveting entertainment.
I like to think I'm not a hypocrite so if I apply one rule to one person then that rule should apply to another in identical circumstances. Considering that, I'm pretty sure you could find a reason to boycott any author, producer, artist, film maker, etc etc, and if that is the case and I'm not a hypocrite then I'll have to boycott lots if not the majority of things. This isn't feasible and would most likely result in my life being very boring without any forms of entertainment, hence I really won't boycott anything.
If it the principal of the matter that bothers you then consider this, there are likely to be people who uphold opposite views to your own in the production of any product, whether that be one of the actors of a film, or the editor of a book, and by purchasing that product you're contributing to the profits and their wage, which may very well help them carry out their activities, so seriously you'd have to boycott pretty much everything to uphold the morale high ground, so I on a personal level draw the line between the product and the creator's own views regardless of how active they are in expressing them.
If it the principal of the matter that bothers you then consider this, there are likely to be people who uphold opposite views to your own in the production of any product, whether that be one of the actors of a film, or the editor of a book, and by purchasing that product you're contributing to the profits and their wage, which may very well help them carry out their activities, so seriously you'd have to boycott pretty much everything to uphold the morale high ground, so I on a personal level draw the line between the product and the creator's own views regardless of how active they are in expressing them.
No. You've basically said what my argument is, and was last thread. If the work isn't representative of the creator's views, you are not supporting the views by consuming the content, and the creator's views are no more valid because they happen to be a good content creator.
If you want to speak with your wallet, that's fine, but you can read with a clear conscience if not.
As far as EA, not buying their games because of DRM/microtransactions/Origin/company policy that affects the game is fine. I don't know too many people who would not buy an EA game were it free of all the bullshit they're protesting. Sadly there are virtually none of those.
EDIT: And somonels, I didn't realise this discussion was actually about piracy, but since it apparently is, if pirating his work is the only way you're going to read it, what consequence is that to anyone else.
If you want to speak with your wallet, that's fine, but you can read with a clear conscience if not.
As far as EA, not buying their games because of DRM/microtransactions/Origin/company policy that affects the game is fine. I don't know too many people who would not buy an EA game were it free of all the bullshit they're protesting. Sadly there are virtually none of those.
EDIT: And somonels, I didn't realise this discussion was actually about piracy, but since it apparently is, if pirating his work is the only way you're going to read it, what consequence is that to anyone else.