As long as countries that don't allow guns have way lower rates of lethal violence/crime I don't believe in arming anyone.
I will clarify
I will clarify
Poll: Should British Police be armed?
- Thread starter mortalsatsuma
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No, and this is coming from a person from England with friends in the police force. Guns are too unwieldy to be used to protect civilians, and not being funny, some cops are fucking idiots. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to arm fucking idiots and give them the freedom to get away with killing someone.
Also, this.InfiniteSingularity said:
looters =/= peaceful protesters. Shooting peaceful demonstrators is unacceptable, and that is where the international outcry has been directed over the past few months. Shooting looters, on the other hand, is still bad but more understandable.Hugga_Bear said:
Cops are already trained this way. They only draw their weapons if they believe a suspect poses a life-threatening danger to either the officer or other bystanders.
The police are armed.
However, unlike you Americans, we don't give every Tom, Dick and Harry who walks into a police station a gun. Not every officer is armed because we don't need that, especially when there is a worrying amount of police brutality (by worrying amount I mean any amount).
I'd rather not have protests every other week because some gun nut decided to give every officer a gun.
However, unlike you Americans, we don't give every Tom, Dick and Harry who walks into a police station a gun. Not every officer is armed because we don't need that, especially when there is a worrying amount of police brutality (by worrying amount I mean any amount).
I'd rather not have protests every other week because some gun nut decided to give every officer a gun.
You can't really plan on incapacitating someone with live ammo. Even if you aim for a limb (which is much harder to hit than your regular center-of-mass shot) there's still a really good chance you'll hit a major blood vessel and cause the target to bleed out.ChromaticWolfen said:
I'm of the yes opinion simply because police are suppose to be trained to use guns responsibly. You can't very well determine if they've taken that lesson to heart unless they have a gun. I'm aware that this is a risky thing, but it's better than finding out later that someone you couldn't trust anyway kept a gun without permission or an unlicenced one and went blam without prior notice.
Thanks for that, it appears that the UK laws are similar, i.e. background checks and licences, though the only guns you can buy here are either Bolt Action Rifles or shotguns that can hold no more than 2 shells at a time. This is slightly disapointing though, as it does mean that Drawn Together lied to me, you can't go out and buy guns from a vending machine.aashell13 said:
Why do you do such an intellectually dishonest thing as to say "execution" is the same as shooting in self defence:The Lugz said:
"Undercover Police Kill Innocent Homeowner."
Everyone is innocent till proven guilty. Was this person armed? Was he suspected of being an immediate threat? What the hell happened?
"North Miami Beach police kill mentally disabled man carrying toy gun"
How did they know it was a toy gun? A person with severely deluded mental faculties has a gun, what are you going to do? Wait for him to kill someone? Hope that it's a fake gun? He has One second to drop then gun when ordered to, after that the police's duty to "serve and protect" DEMAND that they shoot him to stop him.
This is not a "judgement" this is not what he "deserves". This is practicality! This is defending the public from criminal assault.
Also, that 19 year old shot 5 times in the back?
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/07/san-francisco-police-data-show-3-weapons-fired-officer-involved-shooting#ixzz1SbIeukEM
The San Francisco Police Department defended itself Monday against claims two cops fatally shot an unarmed man in the Bayview district last weekend, releasing evidence suggesting the suspect had first fired at them.
Kenneth Harding, 19, of Seattle was killed while fleeing from two cops conducting a Muni fare inspection near the Third Street and Oakdale Avenue stop. His death sparked outrage among people who watched the videotaped aftermath of the incident, some of whom say police shot an unarmed man and refused to let anyone near him as he bled to death.
But at Monday?s news conference, police Chief Greg Suhr presented evidence indicating Harding fired the first shot as he ran through the crowded Mendell Plaza. The evidence included results of a ShotSpotter gunshot-location system used to determine when and where firearms are discharged.
According to data from ShotSpotter ? which was deployed in the Bayview in 2008 ? three separate firearms unloaded 10 shots over six seconds. The first shot was one of two fired from where Harding was located, police said. Two to six seconds later, eight more shots were fired from where the officers were located.
Suhr discussed the department?s initial inability to locate Harding?s gun and cautious approach after he was shot. Harding?s gun flew 15 feet in front of him after he was shot, Suhr said. Yet officers did not see it through the crowd and believed he was still armed, so they kept their guns drawn until Harding stopped moving and they could render medical assistance, Suhr said.
Witnesses later told police they saw Harding shoot at cops and that a passer-by picked up his .45-caliber pistol and walked away with it. Suhr said video posted on YouTube shows a person picking up the gun after a crowd surrounded Harding?s body.
The chief said the gun was eventually recovered through tips that led officers to a Bayview home. Suhr said police are confident the gun was Harding?s, but are conducting ballistics and DNA testing.
The chief said he will present that evidence at a meeting Wednesday at the Bayview Opera House.
In the wake of the July 3 BART police shooting of Charles Hill and the lingering anger surrounding BART?s 2009 shooting of Oscar Grant III in Oakland, Harding?s death has further divided police and members of the Bayview community.
Community members held an earlier news conference Monday near the sight of the shooting. They demanded the FBI investigate the incident and that District Attorney George Gascón have nothing to do with the case because he is a former police chief of The City.
?I don?t care if this kid was like the chain-saw massacre poster child,? activist Mesha Irizarry said. ?You don?t die like a rabid dog with nobody helping you.?
Both officers, at least one of whom is black, were placed on administrative leave. Investigations by the SFPD, the Office of Citizen Complaints and the District Attorney?s Office are under way.
Man killed by police was convicted pimp in Seattle
Kenneth Harding, the 19-year-old killed by San Francisco police Saturday, was a pimp accused of making an underage girl perform oral sex on him and later convicted of demanding that girl to earn him ?ho? money? in Seattle, court documents show.
Harding, a Seattle resident, was fatally shot by two cops in the Bayview after he fired at them, police said. He had been detained for allegedly evading a Muni fare about 4:45 p.m. near Third Street and Oakdale Avenue.
Harding also was a person of interest in a quadruple shooting last week in South Seattle that killed 19-year-old Tanaya Gilbert and her unborn child.
He was released in April from a one-year prison sentence after a conviction for first-degree promotion of prostitution, police said.
Harding?s rap sheet also includes a robbery conviction.
The 14-year-old girl told police she was stranded on a Seattle street after she refused to prostitute for Harding on ?the track? near the Seattle Center, a sports and entertainment venue. He had commanded her to charge $50 for oral sex and $100 for intercourse, and gave her several condoms, according to the girl?s account. She told police she said no, the report said.
Harding told her ?she was either going to make ?Ho? money and get a ride back or he was going to leave her there,? the report said. Harding stranded her there, it said.
The same girl?s earlier accusation regarding oral sex was eventually dismissed, police said.
The San Francisco Police Department defended itself Monday against claims two cops fatally shot an unarmed man in the Bayview district last weekend, releasing evidence suggesting the suspect had first fired at them.
Kenneth Harding, 19, of Seattle was killed while fleeing from two cops conducting a Muni fare inspection near the Third Street and Oakdale Avenue stop. His death sparked outrage among people who watched the videotaped aftermath of the incident, some of whom say police shot an unarmed man and refused to let anyone near him as he bled to death.
But at Monday?s news conference, police Chief Greg Suhr presented evidence indicating Harding fired the first shot as he ran through the crowded Mendell Plaza. The evidence included results of a ShotSpotter gunshot-location system used to determine when and where firearms are discharged.
According to data from ShotSpotter ? which was deployed in the Bayview in 2008 ? three separate firearms unloaded 10 shots over six seconds. The first shot was one of two fired from where Harding was located, police said. Two to six seconds later, eight more shots were fired from where the officers were located.
Suhr discussed the department?s initial inability to locate Harding?s gun and cautious approach after he was shot. Harding?s gun flew 15 feet in front of him after he was shot, Suhr said. Yet officers did not see it through the crowd and believed he was still armed, so they kept their guns drawn until Harding stopped moving and they could render medical assistance, Suhr said.
Witnesses later told police they saw Harding shoot at cops and that a passer-by picked up his .45-caliber pistol and walked away with it. Suhr said video posted on YouTube shows a person picking up the gun after a crowd surrounded Harding?s body.
The chief said the gun was eventually recovered through tips that led officers to a Bayview home. Suhr said police are confident the gun was Harding?s, but are conducting ballistics and DNA testing.
The chief said he will present that evidence at a meeting Wednesday at the Bayview Opera House.
In the wake of the July 3 BART police shooting of Charles Hill and the lingering anger surrounding BART?s 2009 shooting of Oscar Grant III in Oakland, Harding?s death has further divided police and members of the Bayview community.
Community members held an earlier news conference Monday near the sight of the shooting. They demanded the FBI investigate the incident and that District Attorney George Gascón have nothing to do with the case because he is a former police chief of The City.
?I don?t care if this kid was like the chain-saw massacre poster child,? activist Mesha Irizarry said. ?You don?t die like a rabid dog with nobody helping you.?
Both officers, at least one of whom is black, were placed on administrative leave. Investigations by the SFPD, the Office of Citizen Complaints and the District Attorney?s Office are under way.
Man killed by police was convicted pimp in Seattle
Kenneth Harding, the 19-year-old killed by San Francisco police Saturday, was a pimp accused of making an underage girl perform oral sex on him and later convicted of demanding that girl to earn him ?ho? money? in Seattle, court documents show.
Harding, a Seattle resident, was fatally shot by two cops in the Bayview after he fired at them, police said. He had been detained for allegedly evading a Muni fare about 4:45 p.m. near Third Street and Oakdale Avenue.
Harding also was a person of interest in a quadruple shooting last week in South Seattle that killed 19-year-old Tanaya Gilbert and her unborn child.
He was released in April from a one-year prison sentence after a conviction for first-degree promotion of prostitution, police said.
Harding?s rap sheet also includes a robbery conviction.
The 14-year-old girl told police she was stranded on a Seattle street after she refused to prostitute for Harding on ?the track? near the Seattle Center, a sports and entertainment venue. He had commanded her to charge $50 for oral sex and $100 for intercourse, and gave her several condoms, according to the girl?s account. She told police she said no, the report said.
Harding told her ?she was either going to make ?Ho? money and get a ride back or he was going to leave her there,? the report said. Harding stranded her there, it said.
The same girl?s earlier accusation regarding oral sex was eventually dismissed, police said.
As you can see, Sean has hideously "summarised" the events.
A convicted pimp and alleged child abuser shot at cops and they shot back, not their judgement, but their duty. Criminals who shoot at cops must be matched with force, that IS to "Serve and Protect" from gun toting gangsters.
Behind all these sensationalist stories of police as some kind of boogie man you'll find a mountain of evidence that the acted within the scope of the law AND up to the duty of a peace officer.
Letting pimps run through the streets shooting at people is NOT peace.
What is there to 'What?' about? I said, "Shouldn't have outlawed guns in the first place." I'll say it in a better fashion then, "Britain should not have outlawed guns in the first place." It's my opinion, and if you wish to debate it I will be more than happy to have a nice friendly debate with you on the subject, but the 'what?' really seems like an odd way to respond considering you added nothing to the conversation.Squarez said:
Unless of course you really didn't understand me. Which in that case I apologize for not being clearer.
We don't like guns in the UK, we hate them in fact. They do not belong in our country or our culture, sure we known to have one of the best if not the best army in the world, however we do not believe in policing are own in such away. Also its not like the police are all unarmed, several patrol cars you see actually have a gun in them, and in some places in London & Manchester only the cars with guns are allowed to patrol that area. However should we have every cop or the majority with a gun accessible to them, short answer no. They don't need them anyway the UK has a incredibly low gun crime as it is, I live in Southampton the only deep seaport where most of the guns and drugs gets brought it and I've only ever seen one illegal gun.
I don't understand why anybody other than those it affects needs an opinion on this? Only us living in the UK who it would effect should care whether our police have guns or not, why do other people need an opinion when they have no position in the matter? This confuses me.
As somebody that does live in England, no, I feel safe as it is without seeing a police officer all day, I'd probably feel less safe if when i did see one they had a gun.
As somebody that does live in England, no, I feel safe as it is without seeing a police officer all day, I'd probably feel less safe if when i did see one they had a gun.
Nope, it's just not needed. Gun crime is really rare and the few instances it happens it is usually connected to the mob or is very well planned. Having police with firearms won't stop that from happening.
I'm all in favour of giving them tasers though.
I'm all in favour of giving them tasers though.
You may, however, be interested to know that the ATF does NOT regulate muzzle-loading weapons, including smoothbore cannon. So as far as Washington is concerned it would be perfectly legal for you to have an artillery piece in your front lawn.the.gill123 said:
No, I do not want to give government workers the right to shoot me.
The police have already demonstrated use of heavy handed tactics in protests (Kettling children, smacking a woman across the face at the G8 protests, dragging a disabled man from a wheelchair, smashing in the skull of a 17 year old e.t.c), and I therefore have to desire to give them more weapons.
I do not trust the police anymore.
The police have already demonstrated use of heavy handed tactics in protests (Kettling children, smacking a woman across the face at the G8 protests, dragging a disabled man from a wheelchair, smashing in the skull of a 17 year old e.t.c), and I therefore have to desire to give them more weapons.
I do not trust the police anymore.