Poll: Should I Grab Baldur's Gate 1 & 2?

[sXeth]

Lesse

Pros
-Your NPCs have personality and so forth, though some of the really side-ones can be pretty one note.
-The story in #1 is excellent, 2 wiffles a bit, but has a strong main villain (albeit one who pulls plot-armor BS constantly). Throne of Bhaal is weirdly a hack and slash fest, with by far the weakest writing, and almost non-existent personality or definition in its villains.
-They're both relatively open world. Oddly, I always found #1 to allow more freedom, although it does lock off the plot areas in basically 4th wall breaking fashion until you open it.

Cons
-The NPCs outside the 'canon' party and definately less detailed, and this gets worse in #2. #2 will also come up and go "This was your party, FEEL FOR THEM" right out the gate. Even if you never even used the canon group, which was likely enough normally, and especially if you went evil.
-The 1st game pads itself a bit in between Nashkel and finally letting you into the titular Baldurs Gate. The second game does it excessively (The whole Underdark chapter has nothing to do with anything), and generally b ya sort of bad tasting means of constantly having the bad guy win or escape situations that make no sense for him to do so.
-You aren't completely screwed, but you're in for some serious aggravation in #2 if you aren't a rogue, or don't make a secondary PC via the MP system, as all the rogues are multiclassed and can miss some deadly stuff as a result.
-2nd ED is uhm, not the easiest system to understand. You're gonna need some mathematical aptitude and/or a guide if you've never played it before.
-The oddball pseudo-3rd Ed epic feat stuff in ToB is OP as heck.

That said, for a reasonable price, I'd still recommend playing both. The characters in general are well done, and the main story (padding efforts aside) is fairly well constructed up until ToB. The side content is generally better the main story, in a bit of a quirk (I've noticed this in Elder Scrolls titles too, I think maybe its the result of a smaller amount of voices contributing to it).

Stabbing in the same general waters, I'd also recommend Planescape : Torment, Icewind Dale 1 (which is vastly undderated IMO), and Arcanum.

 

[Silvianoshei]

Considering the second one was so much better than the first one (Irenicus? YES PLZ) I'd say you can just wiki the plot of the first one to catch up and play the second one.

Be WARNED. This is ADnD. This game does not dick around with difficulty. You will die. That's all I'll say as I could go on for about 5 hours about how much I love SoA. It was my second major RPG after BG1, and I sunk about 300 hours into it.

 

[IFS]

I would buy the second one immediately, and play it first. Its held up really well and is still one of my favorite rpgs, the first hasn't held up quite as well but is still fun, so I say if you decide you enjoy the second enough go back for one. As others have said the game is difficult, and you'd better get used to pausing to select actions quickly or you'll get overwhelmed. I'd just get them off gog, I haven't played the enhanced edition of BG1, but from what I've heard its not really any better, so there's no point in waiting for it for BG2.

 

[Valiance]

So i have frequently heard people saying how great Baldur's Gate is, I am a pretty big Rpg Fan, I loved the NWN games, Most of the Early Bioware games (KOTOR, JADE EMPIRE, Etc). What i would like to know,
is it the story that really sells the game?
The combat?

If you choose whether i should buy it or not, I would like to hear your opinions as to why you like it, so that i have a good idea of what to expect.

And what about the enhanced edition? I've heard it has some issues but i don't really understand to what degree?

And finally, I often hear that it was the second game that "perfected" the genre, so should i take a miss to the original and go straight to the second? would i miss anything if i do?

It's hard to say that it's the story or the plot, but the writing in general and character development is fantastic.

I haven't played the enhanced edition of BG1, but I can highly recommend BGII:TotSC.

The original BG was fantastic, but I played it on Windows 98, so I don't know how it'll run today unless you have native hardware or a virtual machine. The writing still stands up I'm sure though.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well if you like NWN then you are in for a treat, and yes get the originals + expansions + mods because enhanced edition sadly isn't up there with quality.
And do remember that unlike in modern games retreating and rearming is essential to progression in BG.

For anyone new to the genre this game basically demands D&D knowledge and it doesn't mind curb stomping you if you are clueless.

 

[Garriath]

EDIT: Error posting - Moderator, please delete.

 

[Garriath]

Seth,

I liked your post. I actually disagree with a lot of what you had to say, so let's talk it over. For the newbies' sake, this'll all be spoiler-free.

Pros
-Your NPCs have personality and so forth, though some of the really side-ones can be pretty one note.
-The story in #1 is excellent, 2 wiffles a bit, but has a strong main villain (albeit one who pulls plot-armor BS constantly). Throne of Bhaal is weirdly a hack and slash fest, with by far the weakest writing, and almost non-existent personality or definition in its villains.

-Baldur's Gate I certainly had a ton of filler characters with little personality, but did you really feel that way about the sequel? I really felt that all BG2 characters had not only a very strong initial impression, but also a very interesting revelation about their past along with way. I'll agree that some are more interesting than others, but I'm not convinced that many other games offer the depth of BG2's NPCs.
-Hm. The more I think about it, the more I'd agree with you that BG1's story is a bit better overall than BG2's. The thing is, I really feel that BG2's story is *much* better framed, with a much better presentation of the plot twists and main events. With BG1, I feel like, unless you're actively looking for them, it's much easier to miss out on key plot developments and end the game rather confused. I'll agree that ToB's campaign was a bit disappointingly combat-oriented, but as far as conclusions go, I didn't think it was half bad.

-They're both relatively open world. Oddly, I always found #1 to allow more freedom, although it does lock off the plot areas in basically 4th wall breaking fashion until you open it.

There's no question that there's much more freedom in #1; areawise, it's actually a much bigger game. However, the first game also had a huge amount of countryside to explore with fairly little content. It made for a very TES-like experience (which doesn't have to be a bad thing!) but I always found that it got on my nerves after a while. BG2 had fewer areas, but they were each far better developed, with many more (and more interesting) events, better artwork, and typically a more distinct beginning-middle-end to each map.

Cons
-The NPCs outside the 'canon' party and definately less detailed, and this gets worse in #2. #2 will also come up and go "This was your party, FEEL FOR THEM" right out the gate. Even if you never even used the canon group, which was likely enough normally, and especially if you went evil.

I'm surprised to hear you say that the characterization gets worse in #2. Can you really tell me that there are BG2 NPCs shallower than Alora, Branwen, Kagain, or Yeslick? My feeling was always that BG2's 16 NPCs were infinitely deeper and better developed than BG1's 25. They have much more banter, their own quests, and often develop quite a bit as time goes on, unlike BG1's much more silent, static NPCs.

-The 1st game pads itself a bit in between Nashkel and finally letting you into the titular Baldurs Gate. The second game does it excessively (The whole Underdark chapter has nothing to do with anything), and generally b ya sort of bad tasting means of constantly having the bad guy win or escape situations that make no sense for him to do so.

Eh, I think padding's kind of par-for-the-course in any RPG as massive as BG . I'll disagree with you, though, about the Underdark having "nothing to do with anything." You could say the exact same thing about the Mines of Moria in LotR; the main characters are forced underground and need to work their way out. Is it directly related in advancing the main plotline? Not strictly speaking, I guess, no. Does it flesh out the story and make for a hell of a good time? Absolutely. There's actually quite an important tie-in with the main plotline at the end of chapter 5, too.

-You aren't completely screwed, but you're in for some serious aggravation in #2 if you aren't a rogue, or don't make a secondary PC via the MP system, as all the rogues are multiclassed and can miss some deadly stuff as a result.
-2nd ED is uhm, not the easiest system to understand. You're gonna need some mathematical aptitude and/or a guide if you've never played it before.
-The oddball pseudo-3rd Ed epic feat stuff in ToB is OP as heck.

Can't argue with you here, though the ToB feats are fun for shits and giggles.

Also, I absolutely can't argue with your recommendation of Planescape. Every man and his mother needs to experience that game at some point in his life.

 

[ElectroJosh]

The game is very fun and looks good compared to many in it's era because they opted for sprites and "painted" backgrounds at a time when polygons were coming into vogue but often ugly looking. By today's standards it won't blow you away in that department - but it doesn't have to and it retains a consistently high-quality DnD aesthetic.

Where I hesitate recommending it is around one other point: the game-play. At the time it wasn't considered simple to play but compared to today's games where a lot of game-play elements are now well-refined you might find it frustrating at first.

Those are the two areas, imo, where Neverwinter Nights are better games. If those two points above don't put you off the game then I say grab it now - It's better than the Neverwinter Nights games in every other aspect.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Fantastic story, continuity between 1-2, 100+ hours of D&D goodness, an amazing, honest-to-God party based RPG (and RPG it is, with stats and gear aplenty)....get them.

You could skip one I suppose, the first lvls 1-8/9 aren't as interesting as what comes after BUT the story and meeting characters early on who you then meet again later, gives you context.

The story is great, I can't recommend these games enough. There are some cool mods out for these too, adding anything from extra loot or increased challenge, up to hours of extra gameplay in existing and entirely new areas and bug fixes/tweaks. My favourite (mods) are "Happy Party" which, while I'll grant takes something away from role-playing, allows the player to have any characters in their party and they won't leave because of alignment/actions (yes, Korgan and Keldorn in the SAME party!). Another removes the restrictions around the "bases" the player gets depending on their class, instead allowing us to take over ALL of them. This means you can have fun with the Planar Orb, the Playhouse, Nalia's Keep, the Ranger's Cabin, the Thieve's Guild and more.

I don't know/remember if the GoG versions include widescreen support and high resolution too, something to check out. But anyway...

Get them! If I didn't playthru them fairly recently myself I'd have another go, they're better games than anything out this year so far.

PS. Just remembered....get BG TuTu also. Does wonderful things, the most important of which is make BGI play in BGII's engine and with BGII's interface. This means you'll have a consistent time throughout both titles and 1 is quite improved.

PPS. Friendly advice...roll a Wizard. There isn't enough magic in the game otherwise and there's plenty of combat-oriented characters. When you get high level arcane spells you'll thank me. Seriously, Time Stop and 2-3 Abi Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting/Fireballs NEVER gets old. And ToB will be absolutely immense fun with a high level wizard.

PPPS. I'm so jealous that you get to experience these games for the first time. I'd love to be able to rediscover them from fresh again.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Where I hesitate recommending it is around one other point: the game-play. At the time it wasn't considered simple to play but compared to today's games where a lot of game-play elements are now well-refined you might find it frustrating at first.

You say "well-refined". I hear "dumbed down".

It has a learning curve to start, steeper than most current gen games (all made for 4 buttons and a 4-axis D-Pad interface), but it's worth sticking with it. And it becomes intuitive enough fairly early.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I don't know enough about the EE to say whether or not to get it. I want it myself, and will get it the first time it goes on a Steam sale of some sort, hopefully before I next get the itch to play them. I've heard mixed things of it, that it's wonderful, great and does justice to a legendary game but also that it has some issues all its own. I'd get it if it's that or nothing. But seriously, get I and II from GoG, get TuTu and get going. We'll see you in 2 months, mentally exhausted and emotionally spent.

And just wait to see how an ending for a decade old game is so much greater and more satisfying than that of ME3.

 

[ElectroJosh]

You say "well-refined". I hear "dumbed down".

Well it's open to debate; I just don't want to sound like an arrogant old-school gamer "you kids and your fancy controllers where everything is easier to control, the game tells you how to play it and you can't die until you have played for two hours."

To me the Baldur's Gate was very easy to grasp - I learned most of the functions and actions through trial and error (I was never one to read the manuals that came with the game as I considered it "cheating" to not work out how to play for myself).

 

[Terrible Opinions]

Get BG2 and Planescape Torment. There is nothing that BG1 does that BG2 doesn't do better (okay, exploration, but it's debatable whether or not that was really worth it), and Torment is just plain baller.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

Both are fine. I still have my copies. 2nd one is a bit easier.

 

[sXeth]

Seth,

I liked your post. I actually disagree with a lot of what you had to say, so let's talk it over. For the newbies' sake, this'll all be spoiler-free.

I'm surprised to hear you say that the characterization gets worse in #2. Can you really tell me that there are BG2 NPCs shallower than Alora, Branwen, Kagain, or Yeslick? My feeling was always that BG2's 16 NPCs were infinitely deeper and better developed than BG1's 25. They have much more banter, their own quests, and often develop quite a bit as time goes on, unlike BG1's much more silent, static NPCs.

While the BG2 NPCs were more chatty, I found them to rely heavily on gimmicks and comic relief. The ones that weren't literally dripping with angst, that is. The generally canonized "good" party of You, Yoshimo/Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Aerie, and Anomen/Keldorn were probably the solidest set again, and then Aerie and Yoshimo were both tiring gimmick characters to an extreme. Without spoilering, you can't get into too much detail, but I certainly find it to be a precursor to Neverwinter nights NPCs, who were basically all silly gimmicks like elven paladin/blackguards, good guy tieflings and drow, evil dwarf monks, etc.

Eh, I think padding's kind of par-for-the-course in any RPG as massive as BG . I'll disagree with you, though, about the Underdark having "nothing to do with anything." You could say the exact same thing about the Mines of Moria in LotR; the main characters are forced underground and need to work their way out. Is it directly related in advancing the main plotline? Not strictly speaking, I guess, no. Does it flesh out the story and make for a hell of a good time? Absolutely. There's actually quite an important tie-in with the main plotline at the end of chapter 5, too.

I'll admit, I have some bias against the Underdark segments that litter the post-Drizzt era of D&D games. And while it has been awhile since I played it last, I can't remember anything of that chapter other then the silly Drow cliche stuff. The fact that the plot summarys I just looked at to try and refresh go "The party follows and reaches the surface via the Underdark." does tend to indicate that there wasn't much worth saying about it.

This differs from the LotR-Moria example, which is where the party first gels together really, and is dealt their major blow by losing Gandalf, ultimately leading to the dispute in courses, and breaking the Fellowship.

I can also contrast it with Icewind Dale, which while less nuanced (and certainly more linear), outside of your "newbie dungeon" in the Vale of Shadows, kept everything on course towards the ending without a huge side-detour.

 

[Ryan Minns]

I Only played these games shortly into the PS3's life so I don't fall into the nostalgia crowd many like to throw fans of old games into and I consider BG2 to be one of the best RPGs ever made! So please treat yourself to them and get them both if you can handle games that don't have massive arrows pointing to your objective.

 

[5ilver]

They've aged pretty poorly so I'd wait until Enhanced Edition 2 is out. I would only bother playing 2 if I were you because it's honestly just better. A lot of the annoying characters have *died* (heheh), you don't have to start the game literally 1 hit away from death, there's less BS, things are clearer...

So yeah, wait for EE2, if the project fizzles- consider buying 2. If you really, REALLY liked 2, you can always get 1 later.

 

[Doom972]

They're good games, but they're not going anywhere. Wait until BGEE goes on sale and buy it. If you like it enough, wait for BG2EE to come out and buy that.

The old versions work fine, though getting the first to work requires a little bit of work.

 

[Reven]

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD BUY THEM! :3

If you skip the first one, you would miss the best story ever! So yeah, play the first one. About the enhanced edition, it depends really how confident you are with your modding skills, since you can basically get the same experience with the original copy using various mods. Oh and they botched the cut scenes in the Enhanced edition IMO, it's not the same at all, they actually CUT OUT some of Sarevoks (the main antagonist) dialogue, an absolute crime as far as I'm concerned. >:3

My personal preference of the series goes to the first game. In the second one It's kind of like "Where the fuck do I go?". Still, BG2 is a great game and I understand why people like it more but I've been playing the first game since I was a child (it was one of the first games I ever played) so I think that's down to nostalgia a bit.

Play them both and have an absolute blast. :3

Sorry for the late reply I picked up the game, and was wondering if you could suggest some mods that i could use?