Sure, why not? I mean, not a lot would change, but we've never done it before and there could always be more equal standing between men and women in video games.
It's not like the game would have to change to accomidate it, so there's no reason it shouldn't be the case.
I think the role reversal idea of Link and Zelda isn't such a good idea. Link's motivations rarely involve saving Zelda at first, and often are elsewhere, whether saving his sister in Wind Waker, or just outright saving the world in Oot. A more interesting idea would be having Link just refuse to save the world.
After saving the world so many times, it's easy to imagine that link would get tired of saving it. So, this time, when the call to heroism comes for Link, he refuses. Zelda attempts to take up the mantle of the hero who never came.
This leaves room for Zelda to have some characterization, setting her up for both the realization that's she isn't the fated hero and the realization that the hero isn't coming.
But see, it's not Link (Singular) that's saved the world over and over, it's his various reincarnations. So no individual Link or Zelda have ever been characterized by anything but their respective games.
I don't see why the Hero of Time always has to be male.
I think a girl Link would be pretty neat. He's not overly masculine and is fairly gender-neutral. The outfit could even stay the same and would probably look fine. The only question is really about Zelda, whether or not they should gender-swap her as well. But really, she should be left the same since she never really WAS a love interest for most of the games.
In Ocarina of Time, Zelda is only seen a few times (not counting Shiek, more on that later) and barely says anything to Link. Saria was clearly the love interest there (though you could make an argument for Malon, but I'm not going to bother with that.)
Twilight Princess is probably the most blatant example of how non-romantic Link and Zelda are. Ilia is the obvious love-interest here, and Zelda barely has anything to do with Link. She more of an analogy of Hyrule, save her and you save the kingdom. She's really nothing more than a plot device. And no, I am not going to touch Midna's relationship to Link with a 10 foot pole in this context.
Skyward Sword would definitely be an exception, Zelda is pretty well characterized and her relationship with Link is definitely established as being on the verge of romantic, but since this is a Zelda game we're never going to see them actually hook up, so that's about as close as we can expect them to get.
As for Wind Waker, I'm gonna have to spoil it, though I can't imagine many people don't know this already.
Tetra and Zelda are really two different characters, even if they are the same person. As Yahtzee put it "[she] discovers she's a princess and then spends the rest of the game locked away in a cupboard". Tetra would be the love interest here, not so much Zelda. They may be the same person, but Zelda really has no personality and doesn't react to Link in the same way that Tetra does.
And now I have to venture into Ocarina of Time spoilers, for all the difference that makes.
This "same person, different character" idea would also apply to Shiek. She may actually be Zelda but the two of them have completely different characterization and relationship with Link. Obviously, Shiek was not a love interest, (this is Nintendo we're talking about here) but it's worth noting that Zelda and Shiek are two different characters who act and react to situations differently.
Phantom Hourglass... is too related to Wind Waker so I gotta put spoiler tags again:
This game didn't really have a love-interest at all, at least not that I can remember. You could make the argument for Tetra, but that's really no different than the "save the princess" thing that every Zelda game requires. And as I pointed out earlier, Tetra and Zelda are really too different characters. Link and Tetra have a thing going between them, Link and Zelda really don't. Hard to explain why, but I never got a romantic impression from Zelda. Actually, hell, I don't think Zelda is even IN this game, I believe she's Tetra the whole time. I could be wrong, been a long time since I played this game, but if Zelda doesn't appear then that in itself shows that the relationship is with Tetra, NOT Zelda.
Only other game I played was Spirit Tracks, and though I honestly don't remember that much of it, Zelda did double as the support character and was pretty well characterized throughout the game. They did have something going on there I admit.
If nothing else this at least shows that Zelda doesn't have to be Link's love-interest. In most of the games she was usurped by someone else in this role. Even if Link is gender-flipped she can stay the same, just have another character (obviously a guy, let's not expect too much from Nintendo here) who can be girl Link's new love-interest. This guy would be no different in role than Saria or Ilia or Tetra.
Hell, if you wanted to get REALLY out there Nintendo, make a love triangle thing between Link, Zelda, and this new guy. Kind of like in Skyward Sword, where Link and Groose were both into Zelda. In this case make girl Link and Zelda be fighting over this new guy. Admittedly, that brings its own problems, like giving both Link and Zelda a happy ending if only one of them can get the guy. And we're still supposed to like Zelda, even if she isn't our lover. Making her an antagonist over this guy is probably not the best idea. Of course you could always make girl Link like this guy, and the guy like Zelda, and Zelda be indifferent towards everybody. More of a line than a triangle, but it wouldn't paint Zelda as the bad guy at least.
This is getting kind of off topic, but basically girl Link would be cool, keep Zelda a girl and non-romantic (because we can't expect too much from Nintendo), then have a separate guy to fill the lover role, similar to Ilia or Saria. And hey, this is the 21[sup]st[/sup] century, no one said all women need to have a man. Nintendo could always leave that spot blank, and not have a serious love-interest all (side quest romantic awkwardness with someone notwithstanding). I'd bet Nintendo is probably wishing they had taken this approach with Other M.
I'd love to see a Legend of Zelda with Link sporting two X chromosomes. Why? Well, I think it does a lot of good for the overarcing thing about LoZ being a series of tales with recurring characters that have some similarities between them (Link's basic personality (bravery, decent critical thinking skills, sense of justice, etc.) and Zelda being basically the brains to Link's brawn for the most part) and having a few things different about them every time, like Link's motivating factor (following his uncle, rescuing a kidnapped younger sister, etc.), so seeing gender swaps worked into the narrative, to me, doesn't hurt anything.
]I'd actually liked to see a Zelda game with Zelda as the main character. She has proven herself to be a capable fighter in several of the games, at least more so than someone like Princess Peach. Instead of items she could gain different spells to get around dungeons and solve puzzles. Just as Link has to face several trials to prove that he's a true hero, She should also be facing several trials to prove herself as well, or perhaps a more traditional setting where Link's the one in trouble and Zelda has to save him instead. I think this would be more of a breath of fresh air than just simply genderbending Link.
So basically the Legend of Link: Zelda's Time to Shine. =p That'd be an interesting concept and I'd enjoy playing a Zelda game like that. Kinda like Super Princess Peach, except...not.
I can't say I'd want a game where Link is female for the entire game. Maybe a section where Link requires the use of a female form for some infiltration? Like for example: You need something that the Gerudo are guarding. You cannot just sneak in and take this item. You must win the trust of the Gerudo to get so far as the very room it's in. Link could learn a spell that reshapes his body into a female form(it doesn't have to be a genderbent version of his normal male body, it could even be a transformation into the typical Gerudo form) whenever he needs it.
I think that would be a pretty interesting concept to play with, but that's just me. I'd rather Link stay primarily male, personally.
Oddly enough I remember running across a short fan webcomic about almost that exact thing. It was moderately NSFW but really funny and kinda heartwarming at the end.
OP: Considering the amount of genderbent link fanart on the internet the fandom is ready for such a game. It would be interesting if it allowed you to choose Link's gender at the beginning and offer slight changes in playstyle for each.
I can't imagine why you'd do that. If it's going to be a Zelda game then it's going to be about the hero in green solving puzzles and defeating bosses to save the world. The only thing that would change is that a load of people would start shouting about a new mainstream game with a female protagonist and throwing about words like "maturity", "art" and the "growing industry"... despite the fact there are already strong female characters in games.
Then of course the rest of the fans would complain that Link is a girl now and Nintendo would still make billions from it.
Exactly. "Progressive" isnt good if its jammed in just for the sake of it because then you get this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveTokenBand
It has to actually make sense for the player to use a character that happens to be female (the sex of the character shouldnt even matter, I never minded that I played with a female in Hydrophobia), if its a game staring Zelda then fine but if its a game that stars Link and he is female its just asking for attention and aproval (like if there wasnt that obligatory positive feedback from "those" "progressive" "minds" accompanied with the change they wouldnt do it in the first place).
In the end what I am trying to say is that if Link was turned into a girl I would consider it "Executive Meddling" due to the PR outcome that it would get.
I'm all for Zelda being the heroine, or an additional playable character or whatever, but Link himself should stay a guy.
Half of the weird magical mystery behind Link is that it's almost always a completely different guy in every game, but somehow he always ends up with the same gear, same clothes, same weapons, same name, same form, and same destiny.
He, Zelda and Ganondorf are the cosmic glue that bind all the realities together.
They are the incarnations of the Triforce.
The LoZ universe is already essentially female dominated. The world is run by 3 goddesses, Zelda herself is the reincarnation of the goddess of time, and Zelda is basically the only significant ruler Hyrule ever has. Ganon and Link are basically the only two important male characters.
I don't see a point to making Link change genders, It deviates from the set character, and doesn't really add anything then a cheap garner for attention for being "Progressive". Equally, a gender option wouldn't be that bad, but it still lacks a real point from it, then trying to be politically correct. I don't see why a character has to be changed to a different gender to try to add something, because it doesn't, unless you emphasize it... Which makes it look even cheaper.
Not that I'm against having a Female lead in a Zelda game, but I don't want the lead to be Zelda. What exactly would Zelda accomplish?, She comes from a high position and wouldn't really- or Shouldn't have to work her way to power, to prove herself.
What if Link and Zelda failed?, What if there was no one left to take up the mantle of that heroic spirit? Both of them jailed, or imprisoned. What if then, a character set off on their own quest, breaking the standard, and fighting their way to restore peace to the realm.
The gender of this character wouldn't matter, since they wouldn't be set. At the same time it would allow for a deviation and change from the normal narrative of Zelda games, and allow writers of the series, and Nintendo to develop the Zelda Universe further, in an interesting way.
Granted I don't see this happening, but one can hope.
Hmm. I'm on the fence here. On one hand, Link is generally androgynous and can be confused with a girl at first glance. From a design-by-committee standpoint that makes him a prime candidate for a rule 63 gender swap... but the character we know is a well-established male in every work he appears. It would seem lazy just to take a male character and make them female and call it a day: if anything that can offend both ciswomen as well as transwomen: instead of taking the time to write a strong female character from the ground up, they slapped a pair of tits on a character we've known as a dude. Ciswomen wouldn't appreciate the lack of craftsmanship, and us transwomen aren't exactly fond of someone doing that then failing to acknowledge the struggle involved.
Then there's the other questions: what about Zelda and Ganon? Do they get swapped too? I expect that to work as well as a bomb made out of cat piss and a carton of cigarettes: Zelda is a very feminine name: it would be like naming a girl Fredric: it doesn't exactly work, not in our societal system.
A game where you play as Zelda herself on the other hand... She's a capable combatant, generally speaking having been trained in the use of sword and bow, and she's got command of something that Link doesn't: she's something of a sorceress as well. An entire game built around that premise, where she's gotta throw on some adventuring clothes and do something important to save whateverthefuck: I can see that working well with the current engine and tools. Some mechanics can already be repurposed and just given another effect, and some things are already in place: the character model of Zelda from Skyward Sword is unique enough and looks to be at least somewhat properly equipped for adventuring. Hell, there could be all sorts of character growth involved for Zelda, with the Sheikah race providing tutelage for her to learn all sorts of new abilities and such.
So yeah, I don't know. Genderbent Link rings all sorts of wrong bells, but playing as Zelda herself and going and saving his mute ass? If the game was built well around her abilities hell yeah I'd play it. Genderbent Link just feels like a design-by-committee cop-out that rings hollow. A Zelda game starring the titular character herself? Much less so. She's already established, and she's got enough tricks under her sleeve to make the game feel fresh and new. just from looking at her background you can pick all sorts of things that would make for unique and interesting gameplay opportunities (ninjas anyone?), and shake off the same-old same-old feel that has been helping lead the series to stagnation. Fem-Link just wouldn't have such an opportunity. From the sound of it the concept would be that it's just the same-old same-old, but look we've got tits now. That just feels lazy. Establishing Zelda as a capable adventurer and fighter though? That would strengthen not only the notion that she's not some weak-ass little flower that no-one would dare hurt and instead emphasizes that when she's in trouble that she can't handle, something's gone very, very wrong.
So you want to take Link, same pointy ears, same inability to speak, same green tunic, etc. and slap a pair of tits on him? Why? A pair of tits would not make Link a more dynamic character or make for a better story. Nothing of substance would be added to the game.
That said I would have nothing against the game if it were made, it just seems like such an inconsequential change.
Yopaz, I am trying to stay civil here, but you are pushing my buttons pretty hard right now. If your actual interest is in increasing my understanding, then please try explaining yourself without these smug attempts to declare victory while justifying your refusal to answer the questions I've been asking or respond to the points I've been making. I dislike being manipulated so ham-handedly.
Yopaz said:
I am not against female protagonists; I have never once said so; that is what you have decided what I am saying.
I'm too annoyed to go link-hunting, but anyone who wants the full text of your argument can go back up through the thread. What you said was, "The plot is based around the characters." Therefore, there is something wrong with Link being female: Her femininity makes the plot not work. "Dude gets magic sword and beats up evil wizard to save princess" is a plot that you think works, but "Chick gets magic sword and beats up evil wizard to save princess" is a plot that you think doesn't. So: why not? What's the difference? Wherein does that second plot fail? Point it out to me.
I apologize for the irritation in that paragraph, incidentally. Some of it is directed at you, but more of it is just kind of ambient annoyance I'm feeling at everyone who says "No, that's stupid" without explaining why. Sorry you're catching more of that than is your due.
Yopaz said:
I am against plot details that don't lead anywhere.
And I'll ask you again: Why is being female a "plot" detail (and it isn't; it's a character trait, but by all means, let's use your terminology) that requires justification in the form of "leading somewhere," but being male isn't?
Sure why not. Think about it, literally just make it a very basic model change; not changing much at all, other than the face and body a -tiny- bit. That'd be pretty cool.
redmoretrout said:
So you want to take Link, same pointy ears, same inability to speak, same green tunic, etc. and slap a pair of tits on him? Why? A pair of tits would not make Link a more dynamic character or make for a better story. Nothing of substance would be added to the game.
That said I would have nothing against the game if it were made, it just seems like such an inconsequential change.
actually, I wouldn't really care either way. He was pretty feminine in the last game lol. I didn't finish it, so I don't know if he and Zelda fall in love or whatever, but he struck me as gay or asexual or something in the last game.
Actually, why don't we go all out and have a male zelda instead?
Sure why not? The Legend of Zelda series desperately needs new stuff in it to regain my interest. Nintendo, do ANYTHING differently. I don't care what it is, just DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT with your main franchises. Push the boundaries, go crazy, do something wild.
I wouldn't make Link female. I have nothing against female protagonists, but taking an established male character with the history of someone like Link and just turning them female seems a little desperate / faux progressive.
Now, a female protagonist in the Zelda universe? Yeah that I could get behind. Just don't name her Link or whatever. Whether she's Zelda or someone else, I think that could be an interesting change of pace for the series.
Actually there's a pretty famous musical, Once Upon a Mattress, in which the female lead's name is Fred. I agree with your post, just funny that you picked the name Fred.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
