Poll: Should our species be exempt from culling?

[Azure Sky]

While trying to work out how to perform some sort of culling would be amusing (Someone mentioned a lottery? That was quite genius.) I would have to say I am against.

I'm hoping this was just a really bad joke. I agree with you something should be done, however culling deffo isn't the answer, not in any way shape or form, there's no way it is ethical, on this I think we can agree.

However, your dislike for at least the majority of your species staggers me, you must have had a pretty rough time. I mean I cant think of anybody who's okay who hates the majority of people. I think you're the one who should get help and I dont mean that in a nasty or offensive way, or at least I hope it doesn't come across like that. But misanthropic people are almost universally depressed/ have issues.

Think of it this way.
Every day, many many people in many countries are killed at the hands of other humans. Quite often for reasons that stagger the rest of the world, that is of course the rest of the world even hears about it.
Or how a person can rot in prison for manslaughter by driving under the influence while another can walk for maliciously killing another.
Even how a man convicted and served time for staging cruelty and death of animals can still be lauded as a hero amongst his peers.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head at 4 in the morning detailing why I hold such a great deal of my fellow man in contempt.

Welcome to humanity, we as a species are aggressive, destructive, manipulative, power-hungry and will most likely to be the sole reason we go extinct in the future.

 

[Gladion]

As the most destructive species on the planet, why are we not taking more drastic measures to lower our population? We're quick to kill thousands of animals for overpopulating, yet they aren't nearly as dangerous to the planet's wellbeing as we are.
Are we collectively too arrogant to see how disgusting our species really is?

Wonderful point. Let's start with you.

Sucks, right?

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

So, Azure, Humans are bastards because we kill each other, therefore to be less of a bunch of bastards, we should...kill each other?

What?

 

[Taerdin]

Whenever someone brings up the argument of 'decreasing our population for the good of humanity' or something, I tell them that if they truly believed that, they would kill themselves.

I mean you have no right over the life of anyone aside from yourself, if you really want to lower the population then that's your answer.

But of course most of the people that would suggest 'people should die so I can live better' are usually way too full of themselves to ever consider such an option. They don't want to be the one that has to die, they just want to remove a bunch of faceless people they don't know so everyone they know and love will have more.

 

[Valkyrie101]

Not just my fantasy world, mate. It's everyone else's too.

("everyone" here defined as everyone who wants to live, which is nearly everyone)

Hurry up and block me already.

Seriously, I got sick of dealing with this behavior in USWest: Town Square... -.-

Also, get help, you really need it.

Get help for wanting to live? That's a... strange idea. It's actually quite natural.

Guess what else seeks to survive and thrive at the expense of everything else if necessary? Everything single one of your precious non-human lifeforms. They're as bad as me, really.

Incidentally, you can't block users - was mixed up with another forum. I would ignore you, but the thought of you leaving with the notion that suicidal, genocidal tendencies are somehow the way to go grates. Listen to this guy:

Here's a good way to gauge who should be culled. If you believe that humans should be culled then you should volunteer yourself. The rest of us will go on without you.

Such a pity, because this is getting old.
Again, if you pulled your head out of your dream world long enough to stop being a git you should have noticed that I, at several points in this thread, disagreed with culling. But if you really intend on twisting what others say for your own petty ends, go for it. Your bullshit is as clear as day.

So what are you saying then? That you just hate us all?

On a cosmic scale, yes, we're irrelevant. On a cosmic scale, everything is irrelevant.

But from a human perspective, we matter a lot. And since we are humans...

True, but that doesn't negate the rest I've said; we're still a relatively weak bunch o' meatbags. Sure, way more powerful than any of the other bunches of meatbags that have ever walked around on this planet, but still rather small. Hence why I see every reason to treat our home with respect and dignity, because we're dependant on it for generations to come. You call it a temporary home, but really, that's just a silly thing to say. Optimistically we're still a couple of centuries away before we don't need this planet any longer.

I agree, we need to take care of this planet, simply because we need it to sustain us. My point was that humans are the priority: Earth per se isn't important, it's what it can offer us. But without us, then it becomes useless.

 

[wiggler]

While trying to work out how to perform some sort of culling would be amusing (Someone mentioned a lottery? That was quite genius.) I would have to say I am against.

I'm hoping this was just a really bad joke. I agree with you something should be done, however culling deffo isn't the answer, not in any way shape or form, there's no way it is ethical, on this I think we can agree.

However, your dislike for at least the majority of your species staggers me, you must have had a pretty rough time. I mean I cant think of anybody who's okay who hates the majority of people. I think you're the one who should get help and I dont mean that in a nasty or offensive way, or at least I hope it doesn't come across like that. But misanthropic people are almost universally depressed/ have issues.

Think of it this way.
Every day, many many people in many countries are killed at the hands of other humans. Quite often for reasons that stagger the rest of the world, that is of course the rest of the world even hears about it.
Or how a person can rot in prison for manslaughter by driving under the influence while another can walk for maliciously killing another.
Even how a man convicted and served time for staging cruelty and death of animals can still be lauded as a hero amongst his peers.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head at 4 in the morning detailing why I hold such a great deal of my fellow man in contempt.

Welcome to humanity, we as a species are aggressive, destructive, manipulative, power-hungry and will most likely to be the sole reason we go extinct in the future.

Those seem more like examples of corrupt and poor societes than a fudemental issue with humans in general. I can understand why you'd feel grim but you shoudln't give up hope. yes humans are destructive, violent and petty, but no more so than other animals (apart from destruction, we're the pros at that.)

But on the flipside, few other species have qualities like compassion, like ethics, like healthy debate which we're doing here. And in my eyes at least, it is these decent parts which redeem us.

 

[Azure Sky]

So what are you saying then? That you just hate us all?

You not reading what people say is getting old.

 

[Azure Sky]

While trying to work out how to perform some sort of culling would be amusing (Someone mentioned a lottery? That was quite genius.) I would have to say I am against.

I'm hoping this was just a really bad joke. I agree with you something should be done, however culling deffo isn't the answer, not in any way shape or form, there's no way it is ethical, on this I think we can agree.

However, your dislike for at least the majority of your species staggers me, you must have had a pretty rough time. I mean I cant think of anybody who's okay who hates the majority of people. I think you're the one who should get help and I dont mean that in a nasty or offensive way, or at least I hope it doesn't come across like that. But misanthropic people are almost universally depressed/ have issues.

Think of it this way.
Every day, many many people in many countries are killed at the hands of other humans. Quite often for reasons that stagger the rest of the world, that is of course the rest of the world even hears about it.
Or how a person can rot in prison for manslaughter by driving under the influence while another can walk for maliciously killing another.
Even how a man convicted and served time for staging cruelty and death of animals can still be lauded as a hero amongst his peers.

These are just a few examples off the top of my head at 4 in the morning detailing why I hold such a great deal of my fellow man in contempt.

Welcome to humanity, we as a species are aggressive, destructive, manipulative, power-hungry and will most likely to be the sole reason we go extinct in the future.

Those seem more like examples of corrupt and poor societes than a fudemental issue with humans in general. I can understand why you'd feel grim but you shoudln't give up hope. yes humans are destructive, violent and petty, but no more so than other animals (apart from destruction, we're the pros at that.)

But on the flipside, few other species have qualities like compassion, like ethics, like healthy debate which we're doing here. And in my eyes at least, it is these decent parts which redeem us.

You do have a point and I know I have a very jaded outlook.
But at the end of the day, there is still war, murder, greed, oppression, discrimination, racism and even slavery in some countries I believe.

You know, I have actually lost count how many wars are technically in progress at the moment.
(Actually, how many are there... War on Osama, Iraq, North v South Korea, Israel v Philistines? Am I missing any?)

I don't really agree with your animals side, as in their case it is more survival instincts rather than greed or politics.

You are right though, things like compassion, hope, empathy, etc are all human traits that are all worth preserving and expanding on. It is just so unfortunate that everything else just... Floods it out..

 

[Valkyrie101]

So what are you saying then? That you just hate us all?

You not reading what people say is getting old.

Just reread all of your posts on this topic, and all you've said is,

1- You dislike humans.
2- Humans are bastards.
3- We should give back this planet to its vegetative inhabitants.
4- I'm a Nazi because I put my own species first.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Azure Sky]

So what are you saying then? That you just hate us all?

You not reading what people say is getting old.

Just reread all of your posts on this topic, and all you've said is,

1- You dislike humans.
2- Humans are bastards.
3- We should give back this planet to its vegetative inhabitants.
4- I'm a Nazi because I put my own species first.

Did I miss anything?

Depends, how shallow, self absorbed, oblivious, etc you want to portray yourself as.
Actually, screw this, I'll bite.

1- Read my post above this one. That's right, take it in, comprehend its meaning.
2- Read my post above this one. That's right, take it in, comprehend its meaning.
3- We have never owned this planet, we never will and at the rate we are going we are going to consume all natural resources and bugger the planet up for everything else. Yes, at the rate we are going we are going to kill off a large portion of the life on the planet as we go out, it will be far better off without us here.
4- You act like Hitler in the respect of propagating your own race as the expense of everything else. Treading on anything that gets in your way.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I agree, we need to take care of this planet, simply because we need it to sustain us. My point was that humans are the priority: Earth per se isn't important, it's what it can offer us. But without us, then it becomes useless.

Only useless to us, obviously, because there wouldn't be an "us". There's still a ton of other critters that make use of it's systems. Hell, technically they are the system, same counts for us. We all are the planet's ecosystem, we're all part of it.

One could argue that it's useless anyway. Use implies a purpose, something only we (as far as we know of) can think up and apply to something.

 

[wiggler]

You are right though, things like compassion, hope, empathy, etc are all human traits that are all worth preserving and expanding on. It is just so unfortunate that everything else just... Floods it out..

I guess at the end of the day then it's the balance where you decide if the good outweighs the evil. Personally I think it does, though I can see why others might think otherwise. Maybe it's because I'm a bright-eyed teen

 

[Darius Brogan]

The point I'm making is that we humans have unimaginable potential: just look at how far we've come in the last five thousand years. Trees and flowers have zero potential, and literally do not have minds, so should be disregarded.

So... Should we kill off all the plants and trees then? How about insects? or even half the other far inferior species could probably go as well. They are obviously in the way our progression to ascend to out rightful place as gods of this world? [/sarcasm]

No, because they're useful to us. We need them to exist. Note that this only makes them important in conjunction with humanity.

Okay, that was probably quite offensive and distasteful to people, so apologies where needed.

Seriously though I am probably one of the first people to admit that I dislike other people, even put back in context, the superior-species entitlement some people have these days is quite disturbing.

So here we go, you're a people-hating misanthrope, which explains why you get on better with grass than people. But some of us have a vested interest in survival and progress.

And you're a specie-elitist Hitler that doesn't seem to realize all facets of his own race (Not to mention doesn't read whole posts)

Now that I have given you the satisfaction of sinking to your level of namecalling, shall we move on?

I don't know about you, but I'm sure I can name the primary only contributing factor that will lead humanity extinct.

Oh God, tell me you didn't just compare trees to Jews, or civilization to the Holocaust.

I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion, because you're starting to give the impression of being a tiny little bit sociopathic not to mention unhinged species-traitor.

snip

Listen, it's this simple. We are humans. Look around and take in everything that we have achieved and created. Now look at animals and plants. What have they achieved? Nothing. What will they ever achieve? Nothing. They are simply biological processes. So are we. We are, however, far more advanced biological processes.

That is, of course, taking the very broad universal perspective. Since we are humans, we ought to take the human angle, which is this simple: we are human. We are more important, because we are we and they are they (not to mention considerably inferior in any case). Therefore, it is in our interest, yours and mine, to survive, even at their cost. That is instinct. That is our purpose. Anyone who fails to live by this creed, dies. Simple Darwinism.

Anyway, what's your long-term plan if it doesn't involve human survival?

I wonder if you realize that your own argument is working against you. You say humans are superior creatures, MORE advanced biological processes. Riddle me this, Why do insects have chitinous armour plating? Why are Cheetahs the fastest mammal on Earth, the Peregrin Falcon the fastest animal.

They were born with those advantages, they didn't create them. And they may be the fastest, but we are the dominant ones. The most intelligent, and the all-rounders.

Besides, I couldn't care less about humans as a whole.

Discussion over, then.

And it took you that long to notice I didn't give a shit...

 

[Azure Sky]

I guess at the end of the day then it's the balance where you decide if the good outweighs the evil. Personally I think it does, though I can see why others might think otherwise. Maybe it's because I'm a bright-eyed teen

Well, I am a mid-20s jaded fence-sitter who had his birthday 3 days ago. I'll be able to slip one buy without people making a fuss one of these years. =3

I suppose though, there are days that make that glimmer of hope much stronger than normal.
Kinda reminds me of Pandoras Box really.

 

[Darius Brogan]

The point I'm making is that we humans have unimaginable potential: just look at how far we've come in the last five thousand years. Trees and flowers have zero potential, and literally do not have minds, so should be disregarded.

So... Should we kill off all the plants and trees then? How about insects? or even half the other far inferior species could probably go as well. They are obviously in the way our progression to ascend to out rightful place as gods of this world? [/sarcasm]

No, because they're useful to us. We need them to exist. Note that this only makes them important in conjunction with humanity.

Okay, that was probably quite offensive and distasteful to people, so apologies where needed.

Seriously though I am probably one of the first people to admit that I dislike other people, even put back in context, the superior-species entitlement some people have these days is quite disturbing.

So here we go, you're a people-hating misanthrope, which explains why you get on better with grass than people. But some of us have a vested interest in survival and progress.

And you're a specie-elitist Hitler that doesn't seem to realize all facets of his own race (Not to mention doesn't read whole posts)

Now that I have given you the satisfaction of sinking to your level of namecalling, shall we move on?

I don't know about you, but I'm sure I can name the primary only contributing factor that will lead humanity extinct.

Oh God, tell me you didn't just compare trees to Jews, or civilization to the Holocaust.

I'm not going to bother continuing this discussion, because you're starting to give the impression of being a tiny little bit sociopathic not to mention unhinged species-traitor.

snip

Listen, it's this simple. We are humans. Look around and take in everything that we have achieved and created. Now look at animals and plants. What have they achieved? Nothing. What will they ever achieve? Nothing. They are simply biological processes. So are we. We are, however, far more advanced biological processes.

That is, of course, taking the very broad universal perspective. Since we are humans, we ought to take the human angle, which is this simple: we are human. We are more important, because we are we and they are they (not to mention considerably inferior in any case). Therefore, it is in our interest, yours and mine, to survive, even at their cost. That is instinct. That is our purpose. Anyone who fails to live by this creed, dies. Simple Darwinism.

Anyway, what's your long-term plan if it doesn't involve human survival?

I wonder if you realize that your own argument is working against you. You say humans are superior creatures, MORE advanced biological processes. Riddle me this, Why do insects have chitinous armour plating? Why are Cheetahs the fastest mammal on Earth, the Peregrin Falcon the fastest animal.

Each of them and many more all have mechanisms to maintain their own lives, Humanities only advantage is the fact that, sometime in our species history, we caught a disease, a virus, that causes our brains to develop in place of jaw muscles.
We have no claws, no fur, no armour, no fangs, we can't see at night without aid, we're not fast, we're not strong, we cannot fly. We have only the basest of physical senses that tell us what is going on in the world at large, and we rely almost entirely on our sight.
How, even with all of our supposed 'achievements', even though 'achievement' is a human based term, are humans actually BETTER than other animals??

Besides, I couldn't care less about humans as a whole. I will be seeing to my survival and mine alone in the foreseeable future, and in the event that I need oversee another humans well-being, I will only do so if they are first capable of surviving, and providing something of use to me, you know, as human nature dictates.

We don't have that stuff, but hey look we developed technology that more than makes up for the lack of those things. Physical attributes aren't everything. It doesn't matter whether success comes from physical or mental attributes, what matters is that there is success. All those physical attributes of animals? Nothing compared to what we did with our mental ones.

Cheetah runs fast? Car goes faster. No claws? Guns and knives. Not strong? We have machines to move shit. Can't see at night without aid? Why's the 'aid' matter, if you manage to see at night, you manage to see at night. And we have airplanes to fly us places.

Our senses? We managed to see far beyond our planet with what we came up with. Who cares about what capabilities we'reborn with? What matters if what we accomplish regardless of the means.

My point, if you had read and absorbed ANY of the information in my last post, was that valkyrie said we were 'more advanced' or 'superior' genetic processess. the only advancement we have on primitive animals, is a scientifically proven virus that caused our brains to grow in place of our jaw muscles. We're a genetic fuck-up that has a superiority complex. Nothing more, nothing less. The simple fact that we have to MAKE shit to keep ourselves alive is a failing we have yet to overcome, not a point to our superiority.

 

[Azure Sky]

And it took you that long to notice I didn't give a shit...

Eh, I gave up on him ages ago.
It's now more of a task of handing him the spade while he digs his own grave.

 

[Azure Sky]

Apparently you don't get my point. It's pretty clearly more advanced because, well, just look at the results of it. HOW it happened it nothing but a diversion from the point.

And as for superior genetics, well our genetics produce something capable of dominating the planet. So which are superior? Pretty damn obvious. Our brains don't pop out ex nihilo, they're a product of our genetic processes, and one that apparently is worth more than any cheetah that can run fast. We do things that biology can't, making shit is superior to being born with it because of that.

A genetic fuck-up? Since when was success a fuck-up? Nature doesn't give a damn how it happened, just that it happened.

Rofl, making shit isn't something to overcome. You have a skewed view of things. It doesn't matter how it happens, what matters is that it happened. We survive. That we had to make stuff to aid ourselves do so isn't a failing, it just is. And we make stuff that biology can't compete with, so it's stupid to worship it like a god.

Think of it this way, you are driving down the highway, middle of nowhere, covering hundreds of miles crossing the vast expanse. Cars are a wondrous thing are they not? Anyway, picture you getting a flat and then realizing the spare is missing/also flat. No cell signal either. Now what?

What I am getting at is while technology may not be a crutch, it is by no means perfect.
It kills hundreds of people a day in the world. Some of it even fails frequently. Most of it consumes power, which drains resources from the planet.

The difference between a group of people and a group of wild animals is that if/when something happens to our technology, all of a sudden we are left very weak and helpless.

Also, last I checked back during caveman days, the only reason man didn't go extinct is because we got lucky, repeatedly.

 

[Darius Brogan]

snip

Off the top of my head, animals we're 'preserving' in North America alone include, but are not limited to: (A-B) Amargosa Vole, American Bison, Bighorn Sheep, Brown Bear, Cougar, Gray Wolf, Jaguar, Jaguarundi, Margay, Ocelot, Red Wolf, and West Indian Manatee. All of which live on, at, or near North America.

On the one hand, good knowledge.

On the other, way to skip past my other reasons of why we're better then animals. Morals? Reasoning? Art? Kindness to our own and other species? I don't see many foxes caring for the young of hundreds of other foxes like doctors, policemen and firemen do daily... What I have seen is fully grown male lions eating alive the cubs of others so that they don't grow to threaten them. I have seen a pod of killer whales kill a blue whale calf to eat nothing but its jaw.

Yes, the modern way of life isn't sustainable at current levels of consumption, but that doesn't mean you and I are no better then a frog, or indeed, a tapeworm.

I doubt you've ever seen it, but the BBC did a great doc called The Human Planet, showing the various towns/villages/tribes around the world that have their own ways of life, living with nature. From entire communities that live on water to amazonian tribes who, with nothing but team work, build full on treehouses, 50+ feet in the air.

But hey, I'm just airing my views. If you want to go and live off the land and eat whatever animals cross your path and whatever plants you can grow, maybe indulge yourself in the easy kill of a baby, like loads of other animals do. Whats stopping you? Lead by example my friend.

Or is it all those other people that bother you?

I actually apologize for 'skipping' over your other reasons, I had places to be and was semi-rushing my reply.

Reasoning is a simple concept practiced by more animals these days than humans, as any animal would know that touching something and receiving an electric shock is a bad thing, and will endeavor to solve it's problem, many humans do not. Many do, to be sure, but many more still, do not.

Art is a human creation to fit our particular views of beauty, an animal has no need of such things as they are simple creatures, content to live with what they have.

Morals are another completely human perception, and they differ WILDLY from culture to culture, therefore they've no place in this conversation.

Last but certainly not least: Kindness to our own and other species. This one's a good one. Was it kindness to other species that drove the settlers of the American Mid-West to kill every moving Bison they saw until there were fields of rotting, completely unused carcasses? Or to literally hunt the Dodo (admittedly not the best looking bird) until it went extinct? What about the PRODIGIOUS amounts of animal testing that have been going on since... way further back than I care to remember?
Was it kindness to our own species that drove us to creating biological and chemical weapons? What about Torture methods? Or Murder? Rape, maybe? Ect...?

Yes there are cases of humans being kind to animals, and certainly to their own species, but every animal in the world can care for its own, even parasites.

Animals that display seemingly needless violence, always have a reason; Lion kills a potential usurper before he's a threat, humans have been doing that for millenia.
Killer whale pod attacks a Blue whale and eats nothing but the (massive, by the way) jaw, humans have slaughtered entire species for less than that.

Humans don't bother me at all, really. I'm very partial to many, and... dislike others, but as a species, I feel very little. I'm content with my particular way of life.

Humans truly are no better than a Lion, a Frog, or a Tapeworm, because we're ALL animals. That's it, nothing more. That's my ENTIRE opinion right there.

Believing to the contrary, even if it's just your opinion, is a flawed way of thinking. Humans came into being with every other creature on this planet, and that simple fact is what makes us equal, we're just ANIMALS with big brains. That's all.

 

[Darius Brogan]

And it took you that long to notice I didn't give a shit...

Eh, I gave up on him ages ago.
It's now more of a task of handing him the spade while he digs his own grave.

Evidently so... At this point, however, it's his own problem. Let him find his own spade if he thinks he's so superior.