Poll: Should Princess Zelda Still Need Saving?

[go-10]

HUGE Zelda fan that's blindly in love with the series

okay now that that's out of the way. I honestly don't care either way. The problem with Zelda though is that, taking the lore into account, Zelda will always hold the tri-force of wisdom, Ganon of power, and Link of courage. Ganon holding power is actually a good idea to show how he rises to power through brute strength and Zelda is always the one with the wisdom to devise a plan and find a way to aid everyone and sets the plan in motion, Link is the one with the courage to go against all odds and triumph where all others would fail. Which is why I'm not quite on the side of making Zelda the main character, she's more of a tactician of sorts.

now if you were to say have Link be born a girl or for his sister Aryl to inherit the tri force that I'm totally okay with... assuming nobody else in the world gets gender bendt

 

[Scarim Coral]

Well I think they should more of her offensive ability since I do find it abit hard to see her as an fighter in SSBB (well ok the same would apply to Peach). I mean she is capable of fighting like she assist Link against Ganon with her bow in the final battle. Maybe in the next LoZ game they can show her kicking some minions arses before she get capture.

 

[WanderingFool]

What do you guys think? Should Zelda be relegated to this role forever or do you think Nintendo could afford to do something more interesting with her? What kind of future do you see/want for the character?

Want to know what my two favorite Zelda games where (not counting OoT, because obvious is obvious); Majora's mask and Link"s Awakening. You know why? Because theres no Zelda... Okay, that doesnt sound right. Let me explain...

Of almost every game I played, Zelda needs rescued by Link. MM and LA or the only two that Zelda doesn't need to be saved. It also happenes to be because neither game has Zelda in it, but anyways. Both those games dont have typical "Save Zelda, Stop Ganon, Save Hyrule" plot. Major'a Mask is about saving Termina (and depending on if you believe it or not, is actually Link coming to terms with his own death.) Link's Awakening is about Link trying to get back to Hyrule from a previous adventure.

I dont really care about Zelda being taken out of the Damsel role, so much as I would like a story where Link is doing something else.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Why can't she be the hero?

CD-i and tradition are the likely excuses some people will, and at least one person is already using.

Personally, I don't think the Zelda series as a whole has enough depth in its story to justify having 'set roles' like it does, so I see no reason to keep her as some one needing to be saved all the time past that really asinine 'tradition' excuse that makes me want to slap people.

 

[Broderick]

Frankly I am not sure she should have needed saving in the first place. Granted, many of the games in the series followed the hero's journey quite a lot. In this day and age, a character should be motivated beyond "I want to save that girl and the world". Those are mighty good causes mind you, but a good lot of the time, there was little reason for zelda to be captured (aside the whole being a monarch thing). Hell, a lot of the games could tell the same exact story, but still have zelda not be captured.

Just think of this: Link starts out as an ordinary guard for say a town, or maybe even the castle. When doing a patrol, he hears talk of an upcoming revolt. After investigating it, he learned that it was planned by a man named Ganon who wants to seize power for himself. Link goes to report to the princess but it is too late, the plan was set into action, and Ganon starts a revolt. Zelda is nowhere to be found; her last order was to contain the revolt using non-violent methods and to find the man responsible. The castle is overtaken, and Zelda, gone.

From then on, link returns to his home village to check up on it, only to find Zelda Hiding out with the village elder. After explaining what Link heard, Zelda suggests that the both of them team up to try and find the man responsible. She knows this man is not any ordinary person, and that he brings darkness with him. The forests and even the plains of Hyrule are now stricken with a sickness, turning the ground black and the trees bare, and now monsters roam the once peaceful landscape. Zelda figures this is no coincidence, and sets you on the path to explore old ruins to find the power capable of pushing back the darkness and the man responsible for it.

I have a few ideas on what Zelda's purpose would be. She could end up as a mentor of sorts, guiding link to his next objective while trying to find out stuff on her own. She could also serve as a coop partner, with the "guidance" character being regulated to that of the village elder.

A lot of this was just off the top of my head though. A citizen revolt might be a bit weird for a Zelda game, so perhaps just the sickly ground stuff, monsters and whatnot should be used.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

It doesn't irk me that Zelda usually needs saving, but they should shake things up. They could do a game where Zelda is the hero out to rescue Link and save Hyrule and call it The Legend of Link. Obvious suggestion I know, but I'd play that. Well if I had a WiiU I'd play that.

 

[SD-Fiend]

Playing a Zelda game and not rescue Zelda?
What would be the point of that?

To save Koholint Island from being consumed by Nightmare? or maybe keep the moon from destroying all of Termina? We've got at least a couple of games where Zelda isn't even present and Link just saves everyone as usual.

They could always do something in the vein of Midna a la Twilight Princess and have her serve a consistent supporting role, actively helping Link along his journey. The story was just as much about Midna as it was Link, despite the fact that the player only controlled Link.

I haven't actually played the game but isn't that what Phantom Hourglass had? I remember something about a disembodied Zelda being able to posses Phantoms and help solve puzzles.

 

[Reasonable Atheist]

Zelda is already more important then link, her removal from the world they live in is usually essential to the negative effect Ganon is having on the people who live there. She is the physical embodiment of wisdom, ignorance and chaos reign in her absence, and link must use his outstanding courage to return her to her position of POWER in the kingdom. Often it seems to me that once her shackles are broken, or her crystal prison is removed, Ganon stands no chance against both link and Zelda working in tandem against him, often this can be seen by zelda knocking him flat on his ass over and over while you muddle threw trying to stab him in the face like a grunt. Maybe Zelda is just patronizing you for all the effort you put in to free her. Ganon captures Zelda, because Zelda is the greater threat, only threw tremendous courage and checkpoints is link successful in the narritive.

The games are called the Legend of Zelda for a reason, I feel like Zelda is already a super cool female character. Its not like I would not be open to a game where you must play as the all powerful princess Zelda, but I do not consider it at all negative that she is "damzeled" because if ganon did not capture her.... how could he accomplish his evil plans? She would stop him maybe just by virtue of existing.

Captcha: "woof woof".... haha

 

[johnnybleu]

Honestly, I don't know WHY she can't be the hero. The frickin' series is named after her.

For the same reason I can't play as a Metroid in Metroid! Who's this "Samus" person? I call shenanigans!

Seriously, having a character that needs rescuing in a game isn't new, and it's not exclusive to Zelda (or women, or games). It's not even uncommon to have a character kick all kinds of ass and suddenly get kidnapped as a plot convenience. It's an easy (some might say cheap and lazy) way to get the protagonist to do something. It's just a plot device, and that's it.

Honestly, I don't really care when games do that. I don't have much of a problem with tropes, archetypes, and stereotypes. They get the point across quickly and efficiently. Zelda captured, needs saving-- got it. You don't need to establish new characters, motives, explain why this event might be bad. Of course, there's no reason why there couldn't be a game where Zelda DIDN'T need saving, but that's up to Nintendo.

And of course, running the risk of fan outcry over changing things too much.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I haven't actually played the game but isn't that what Phantom Hourglass had? I remember something about a disembodied Zelda being able to posses Phantoms and help solve puzzles.

That would be Spirit Tracks, but yes she was Link's partner for the game. I really liked that concept, but it would be hard to have Zelda in her physical form as Link's partner since most of his helpers are fairies, spirits, boats, hats etc. They never physically help him in battle, they are usually there to give him direction or advice. Unless they were to incorporate co-op into a Zelda game, but that is a bit hard to imagine.

As for the main question, she certainly does not need to be the damsel in every game. I would like to see games explore different roles for Zelda going forward. I'm still waiting on the game where she teams up with the villain forcing Link to go against the holders of the Triforce of Power and Wisdom for once. Of course I can't see that happening unless we find out that she was possessed all along, or was tricked in some way.

All that being said, in future games she will still need to be saved in some way, and I don't mind too much. Link saving Zelda and all of Hyrule is like his bread and butter after all.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

They could always do something in the vein of Midna a la Twilight Princess and have her serve a consistent supporting role, actively helping Link along his journey. The story was just as much about Midna as it was Link, despite the fact that the player only controlled Link.

I haven't actually played the game but isn't that what Phantom Hourglass had? I remember something about a disembodied Zelda being able to posses Phantoms and help solve puzzles.

That was Spirit Tracks. And that game had Zelda a) as a semi playable character and b) still captured.

OT: I'm kinda... leaning towards the captured side. because the nature of Zelda being captured DOES change game to game. Skyward Sword being the biggest difference in how that plays out but, OoT she gets snatched as soon as she gives the Light Arrows away so maybe those were shielding her (idk, that last bit was a cool reveal but not super well thought out). TP its because she chooses to save Midna instead which, I dunno about you, that's pretty f*cking heroic. LttP it's because she's one of a bunch of maidens Aganihm/Ganon need to achieve their goals.

It's tricky because Zelda is more than just a princess. The story's about how she's important not as a trophy for Link to win but as a symbol of Hyrule. You save Zelda, you slay Ganon, Link is you regardless of your (the player's) own identity. Link's the avatar you play as, he's the 'link' between player and game. It's why he never speaks, Link's meant to be a cipher for how you deal with things, yes/no and the talking sidekick to advance the plot. You could even say it's why he looks kinda androgynous.

Zelda can be badass, she can be awesome and hell you can even have her playable. But at the core of the game, Zelda isn't just some princess. She's Hyrule, she's what you're trying to save personified. If she's never captured or at risk then... why are you here, Hero?

God I'm just SO aware that this could be taken as sexist if people didn't want to engage with the argument

tl;dr, Legend of Zelda is about Zelda, the symbol of Hyrule, good and light, being saved by the Hero of X from Ganon. There are other stories you can tell here, but it'd be against the point. Avoiding Zelda being captured is like making Ganon not evil.

Or if I were to put it more passionately, THIS IS HOW WE WOUND UP WITH METROID OTHER M! "Samus needs to be a more rounded character. let's get Team Ninja to have a go at fleshing out her personality and gameplay", She was AWESOME as a cipher! I f*cking loved how Zelda and Metroid made a perfect pairing, but everyone else just wants to keep fucking with their respective formulas...

 

[MetalShadowChaos]

I'm all well and good with Zelda being 'damseled' as is rather unfairly termed, because that is 'The Legend of Zelda', I.E the repeated cycle that HAS to repeat itself with each re-incarnation of Demise.

Short version for those that don't know:

Essentially, there was a big bad called Demise, who is so god damn evil that every time a 'Princess Zelda' is re-incarnated(Zelda's bloodline holds the spirit of The Goddess, which big bad needs to become biggerbadder), he is also re-incarnated in order to get his evil little hands on her, and in response, the Legendary Hero is re-incarnated as well in order to save her.

Bonus fact: This theme of 'cycles' is a popular Japanese theme, not so much a western one. See: Dark Souls for another great example.


So while I do of course like the formula being changed up in various ways, (spirit tracks having the disembodied spirit of Zelda follow you while her body is kidnapped in stead, twilight princess having her contribute to the story even while captured), in the end, it wouldn't be Zelda if it didn't end with the Hero saving Zelda. As in, the lore states that unless something earth-shattering happens like someone wishing on the triforce that Demise should be re-incarnated with tastebuds in his ass so he'll never want to come back again, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anything else to happen in the end.

TL;DR: Formula stays, but have some fun with it.

 

[Nanondorf]

Hey, a damsel in distress is a classic trope, older than mud, and nintendo does love tradition. Of course, many Zelda games give her a more active role, as the OP mentioned. I believe that they shouldn't ditch that entirely, but play with it instead, adding some variation.

OoT may actually be the worst offender of this as we're made to understand that Sheik (Zelda) is a super badass, but as soon as she reveals herself a magic, bullshit crystal of plot contrivance appears out of thin air and gobbles her up. You know, if Ganondorf is so powerful at this point why didn't he do the same to Link? Not only does Link not have any magic of his own to counter Ganon's efforts, but he was like five feet away from Zelda when this happened. Why not kill two birds with one stone?

As far as this event is concerned, Remember that Ganondorf, wicked as he may be, does have a sense of honor (Which is shown to exist even from the very beginning of the official timeline, back when he was just Demise). He wants to test his adversary's tenacity, he wants a final showdown, and the game needs some kind of climax. No, my greatest gripe with that event is that they write Zelda into being dumb enough to reveal herself dead center in enemy territory.

I do wish the titular character will become more active in future games, no matter the role. I would actually like them to shake things up and make her an antagonist.

 

[Therumancer]

While this discussion does have the "damsel in distress" trope at its core, I am not here to debate the concept as it pertains to video games as medium. This is solely about the character Princess Zelda and the franchise named after her. That said, let's keep things civil. The first person to throw out the acronym "SJW" un-ironically will get three swift floggings on the rump, especially because this discussion is only tangentially related to female representation, etc.,etc.

Now that that's out of the way I pose this question to you all: why are we still rescuing Zelda from Ganon? Over the course of the franchise's long history Zelda has become more and more capable. She began as a powerless damsel in the franchise's early days and eventually graduated to a magic ninja, a pirate captain and so on. This was made possible because, like Link, she's just a reincarnation of the same soul, tied to the same destiny every era she is reborn into. What separates them greatly, however, is that Zelda is often times reborn with wildly different personalities, outlooks, skills and even professions. Conversely, Link is basically the same character every time (and we need not mention Ganon since he's actually the same guy presumably with intact memories of all his incarnations within a given timeline). So across the different titles Zelda has had the most variance in her character, so much so that in some instances we only really know she's Zelda because someone calls her that (Wind Waker is a good example of this).

Beyond their namesake, what trait do all these Zeldas share then? They all get captured before the story's over and Link always saves them. You'd think that being reincarnated with so much variance would allow her to evade such a fate every now and then, but sadly it does not. A character requiring salvation from another is not inherently a bad thing at all, however. In fact, it can be used to further develop said character. But you know, when you're captured over and over and over again, it kind of makes you wonder... how incompetent is this character? I personally don't think she's incompetent at all; rather, I think the writers of the series feel obligated to damsel her out of tradition more than anything else. This is incredibly dumb as it contradicts everything they've been trying to do with the character since Ocarina of Time: make her an empowered, competent badass.

OoT may actually be the worst offender of this as we're made to understand that Sheik (Zelda) is a super badass, but as soon as she reveals herself a magic, bullshit crystal of plot contrivance appears out of thin air and gobbles her up. You know, if Ganondorf is so powerful at this point why didn't he do the same to Link? Not only does Link not have any magic of his own to counter Ganon's efforts, but he was like five feet away from Zelda when this happened. Why not kill two birds with one stone?

Weirdly Hyrule Warriors (a non-canon Zelda spin-off) avoids this entirely! Not only is Zelda a capable, empowered badass, but she never once gets captured and the latter half of the game has her leading Hyrule's armies against Ganondorf with Link playing more of a supporting role by the end. In fact, you can play the final mission as any character and doing so as Zelda feels very... fitting. Now I am not saying that we need to play as Zelda or that she should take the spotlight away from Link (he is the series protagonist after all), but it would be nice to see the plot of future games compliment her character more often than it does.

I have to wonder: why is this even still a thing at this point? Most of the games she appears in since OoT seem to kind of shoehorn her capture in near the very end of the game; often times only marginally raising the stakes. In most of these games Link's already been questing to save Hyrule for 90% of the game and that won't change whether Zelda is captured or not. As I mentioned above, it just strikes me as sticking to tradition for tradition's sake and it's just comes off as... uninspired.

What do you guys think? Should Zelda be relegated to this role forever or do you think Nintendo could afford to do something more interesting with her? What kind of future do you see/want for the character?

Discuss!

The way I see it is this, not everyone is some kind of kick-arse super warrior. Women in particular tend to gravitate towards more passive roles and positions of power as well. Part of what makes Zelda who she is, is that she's supposed to be a kind hearted ruler and administrator, not a warrior-queen, typically before things go bad she's ruling over a sort of golden age, or at least a peaceful one, that ends with a sequence of events that leads to her being captured as a hostage/figurehead/power battery/sacrifice. In storylines where Zelda has power that has been allowing her to keep the peace, half the point is that by the time she's brought down there has already been a kingdom shattering war, and usually it's done by the usual big bad who himself is brimming with cosmic power and had been building strength specifically towards that end. Part of the idea of the hero having to sort of grow in power through collecting tools, learning combat tecniques, etc... is to become strong enough to stop someone who might have already taken down what was as far as most people knew in that incarnation the most powerful being the good guys had.... of course in some versions Zelda is just a girl, literally ruling, albeit wisely and well, because she has royal blood, and it's her duty.

See, if you start turning Zelda into some kind of warrior-queen who can defend the kingdom herself, not only do you no longer need Link anymore (which is the point to some people I guess) but the character ceases to be Zelda, and as much as she reincarnates it's still important to note that she's supposed to be the same basic person, which she wouldn't be if she developed along radically different lines. Basically Zelda is not "She-Ra" (Princess Of Power... a Princess who defended her kingdom in the He-Man universe rather directly). There are plenty of empowered female characters out there to the point where I don't think Zelda being herself is any big deal, ditto for other "damsels in distress" who are important enough to be hostages for one reason or another, but not powerful enough to deal with the situation on their own.


I'll also say that in a roundabout way we already DID see a more "aggressive, assertive, and self-empowering" Zelda. Arguably Zelda and Midna share a sort of dimensional kinship. Zelda is the princess of light, and of course she's like she is because she's from a warm world full of love and happiness when everything is working properly. Midna's world is a lot less Utopian even at the best of times, coming from a rougher world "The Twilight Princess" didn't exactly stay down when she was taken out, indeed she was imprisoned in a fairly powerless form but she was quite assertive in finding the hero of light and going after the bad guys to restore her original form and power, where she DOES indeed thrown down with the major bad guy again (and helps set things up so Link can end the fight). She's sort of Zelda, but not Zelda, and sort of shows how a chance of character traits makes someone entirely different even if their basic role is the same.

That's my thoughts at any rate, to me having someone like Zelda or Princess Peach coming out and doing the action hero thing doesn't really do the character justice. Especially seeing as it raises the question of why they would be that aggressive or know how to fight/use their powers combatively if they are literally supposed to be from a utopian world before the bad guys messed things up. In some respects it could be seen as the eventual end of those who engage in pacifism. One thing with Zelda, Mario, and most Nintendo titles is that they generally stand alone, using the same basic concepts, you don't have a true ongoing storyline despite the numeric sequels where it could be argued the characters would seriously change. Basically Mario doesn't start importing guns from his portal to the real world, Princess Peach doesn't start practicing kung-fu and throwing fireballs. Link and Zelda are the same characters but they are new versions of the same characters who in most cases aren't exactly sharing the history and backstory from previous games despite some attempts by fans to create a chronology, which is why Link always starts out as a complete wuss and has to re-build power and collect the same exact bloody weapons (or variants of them) and Zelda always gets abducted by Gannondorf as opposed learning how to use her magic more aggressively (if she has it) or you know... taking more logical security precautions than maybe a couple of knights (which conceptually is probably all she'd need in a peaceful and borderline utopian kingdom).

 

[the December King]

I want to play a turn based strategy Zelda game in which you are Zelda commanding the armies of Hyrule against the forces of Ganon. It fits well with her character theme as wisdom is a strong leadership trait. Zelda has, herself, been a capable fighter many times, but she is rarely on par with the more direct power granted by the triforce of power and courage. It would make far more sense for her to lead an army in a genre switching spinoff than replace Link in an action/adventure game. And it could make a really good spin off franchise.

This is the stuff.

This idea has a great weight to it- the forces Ganon control being thwarted by Zelda's competency in directing forces on the battlefield, collecting resources to reinforce her position, undermining the forces of evil and protecting the people of Hyrule sounds like a really fun game- even having Link act as a resource or elite unit!

"World of Triforce"...

 

[Kotaro]

I have a problem with it not because it's a damsel in distress thing. I have a problem with it because it happens every. Single. Game.
Tropes are fine as long as you don't overuse them.

 

[spartan231490]

Reality has all possibilities. If you want to empower them, you can just transfer them from one small box to another. There's nothing wrong with having weak females in games, the goal should be to ALSO have strong females. Particularly in the case of Zelda games, I think rescue the princess is a core element of the game, you can't take it out without destroying the feel of the game, imo.