Poll: Should Princess Zelda Still Need Saving?

[Piorn]

Asking for Main character characterizations in a Nintendo game is like asking to characterize the bat, ball and glove in Baseball. They're devices, not people.
Mario doesn't have a character, neither does Peach, Bowser, Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
They are not the content, they are the 3 act structure, they are the book, they are the paper the story is written on.
Sure they could spice it up some more, mix it up a little, but eventually, someone is going to hit that ball with a bat and catch it with a glove.

 

[Danny Dowling]

it's a flagship Nintendo game. Peach almost always needs saving, Zelda always needs saving, Samus always shoots up aliens or something...

Nintendo always keep their stuff simple. i say think about it less and just enjoy the game,

 

[johnnybleu]

Lazy, Lazy writing. Or just sticking to a formula that could really stand some shaking up.

The problem is that Nintendo is kind of stuck in a rut, especially with the whole "reincarnation" crutch. Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask were both fine games, and neither featured Zelda, the Triforce, or Ganon, but I'd be willing to bet that if such a game were released today, the internet would catch fire. At this point fans want the formula --they expect it, and cherish it-- and if you shake it up too much, well... But this is a bigger issue relating to all game franchises.

Asking for Main character characterizations in a Nintendo game is like asking to characterize the bat, ball and glove in Baseball. They're devices, not people.
Mario doesn't have a character, neither does Peach, Bowser, Link, Zelda or Ganondorf.
They are not the content, they are the 3 act structure, they are the book, they are the paper the story is written on.
Sure they could spice it up some more, mix it up a little, but eventually, someone is going to hit that ball with a bat and catch it with a glove.

Very well said. I tip my internet hat to you.

 

[Rayce Archer]

So Zelda has the triforce of wisdom. Link has courage, and Ganon has power.

Why does wisdom have to be good all the time?

Youre confusing Intelligence with wisdom. Intelligence has no conotation to descern if something is right or just. Wisdom does (in fact its one of the definitions of wisdom). Intelligence does not equate to wisdom but being wise tends to assume you are also intelligent

It's also a reoccurring theme in the Zelda franchise that one must wield both courage and wisdom to overcome absolute power. While this isn't a concept that needs to be consistent across every title in the franchise, it does make swapping character roles trickier. I can't really see avatars of Courage or Wisdom being corruptible figures considering how overwhelmingly positive those ideals are.

Right doesn't have to mean morally or ethically right. Lots of people have made useful or productive decisions that have harmed others. And the idea that courage is an incorruptibly positive trait doesn't make much sense. Just google "Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross Recipients" for a long list of brave assholes. I don't think it's much of a stretch to paint Link as an entitled sociopath or Gannon as a champion of the disenfranchised (and moblins!). The idea is that instead of making the characters morally absolute cartoons we emphasize the opposing qualities of their respective personalities- the counterpart to kindly wisdom being heartless, analytic decision making, and the counterpart to heroic bravery being zealotry. The counterpart to power that you abuse for personal gain is power you expend for others. It's not a big narrative stretch.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Honestly, I don't know WHY she can't be the hero. The frickin' series is named after her.

WHAT?! You mean the green guy ISN'T named Zelda? But he's my second favorite videogame protagonist of all time behind Halo!

OT: Doesn't really matter to me, Nintendo can do as they wish with the character and they have no moral imperative to do one thing or the other

 

[Bombiz]

I want to play a turn based strategy Zelda game in which you are Zelda commanding the armies of Hyrule against the forces of Ganon. It fits well with her character theme as wisdom is a strong leadership trait. Zelda has, herself, been a capable fighter many times, but she is rarely on par with the more direct power granted by the triforce of power and courage. It would make far more sense for her to lead an army in a genre switching spinoff than replace Link in an action/adventure game. And it could make a really good spin off franchise.

This is the stuff.

This idea has a great weight to it- the forces Ganon control being thwarted by Zelda's competency in directing forces on the battlefield, collecting resources to reinforce her position, undermining the forces of evil and protecting the people of Hyrule sounds like a really fun game- even having Link act as a resource or elite unit!

"World of Triforce"...

Oh I would so play a fire emblem/final fantasy tactics type game like this. with the range of races and cultures in the Zelda universe (multiverse?) you'd get some really diverse units.
Could even counter-play it with an "evil" campaign where you play Gannondorf conquering the kingdom by force.
With tactics more embodying the triforce of power, where units are expendable tools like in advance wars.
instead of trying to carefully and skillfully undermine the enemy you would be focused more on swiftly overwhelming an established kingdom and crushing their morale.

Or perhaps even something more similar to Civ where kingdom management elements like happiness and administration exist could work. As competent as Zelda seems as a commander I feel she would be in her element in dealing with the problems of maintaining peace, could even have her using her father the current king of Hyrule as a puppet.

why not make it a RTS? in fact I'm pretty sure they have something like in the form of "Hyrule Total War" https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moddb.com%2Fmods%2Fhyrule-total-war&ei=Arc2VJ2QLcfnsATTnoHQCw&usg=AFQjCNFPJVt6aPbwAB1-byFeBbbIoG5ZiA&bvm=bv.77161500,d.cWc.

 

[agent9]

Needs more shiek. I wouldn't mind though, if zelda became the hero and link the prince.

 

[ngl42398]

Good to see the non-extreme options have the most votes. I personally said "no, but she could NOT get kidnapped every game".
As that states, I think that Zelda being kidnapped by Ganon/Ghirahim/baddie is kind of an inherent part of the franchise, but it would be cool to have some games where she doesn't get kidnapped.

 

[Adam Lester]

Needs more shiek. I wouldn't mind though, if zelda became the hero and link the prince.

Dude, I skimmed over this and thought it said "Needs more Shreck"

I almost pissed myself.

 

[Radoh]

My two cents on the subject is as such: It's usually a tag team between Link and Zelda that is required to topple Gannondorf most times, so as a result it would be in his best interest to go after them one at a time to minimise his likelihood of failure, and since Link is never around to find it would stand to reason he'd seek on the Princess, since she's easily found [sub]because you know, she's probably in the castle[/sub].
So I don't think it's strictly necessary for her to be the captured one, but thematically makes more sense.

 

[agent9]

Needs more shiek. I wouldn't mind though, if zelda became the hero and link the prince.

Dude, I skimmed over this and thought it said "Needs more Shreck"

I almost pissed myself.

lol, it is rather funny when you read it that way. I suppose this has to do with our own mental "autocorrect". shiek and shrek both start with S and end with K. I wouldn't be surprised if other people needed to do a double take as well.

 

[implodinggoat]

I don't buy into any argument that its inherently sexist to write a damsel in distress storyline.

That said writing a damsel in distress storyline over and over and over again deserves criticism not on grounds of chauvinism; but on the grounds that its repetitive and uncreative.

By the same token writing every female protagonist as a strong independent woman that SJWs can drool over is equally uncreative. Women (like men) aren't all the same, some are strong some are weak, some are virtuous some are wicked and there is room for all these depictions in a quality piece of fiction.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I think Zelda was playable along with Link in one of the Philips CDI masterpieces.

My stance remains the same I really dont care if I have to rescue Zelda or not but really the structure of the Zelda games are pretty much the same Links almost always the hero Zelda is the captured princess and Ganon(dorf) is usually the evil big bad. I dont care to much either way tbh just make the games good.

For me personally the games have always had a whimsical fairy tale feel and in that context rescuing a princess makes sense.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

I voted "Other" because Zelda is almost never a damsel in distress. The damsel in distress is a trope used to put the main cast into motion, to give a reason for the hero to start acting. Without Zelda being the Link almost never acts to save Zelda, he acts to save the world. In fact, Zelda is often crucial to even make it possible for Link to save the world. Without her, Hyrle would have been doomed even before Skyward Sword took place.

Also I don't want Zelda do be playable in the mainline Zelda games nor do I want her to be a companion that follows you because I have yet to see a game that does that right. Also in Skyward Sword she helps Link all the time to beat the evil, same goes for OoT and WW. Something similar happens in TP.
In Spirit Tracker she plays a really important role in helping Link.

I have feeling that people who say Zelda is a damsel in distress didn't play any Zelda games at all.

Frankly, I'm tired of saving Zelda. Her character is at her most interesting when she's pro-active. Everyone remembers Shiek, but who cares about Twilight Princess Zelda?

Everyone who followed the story because, you know, she was pro-active.

 

[Fox12]

Frankly, I'm tired of saving Zelda. Her character is at her most interesting when she's pro-active. Everyone remembers Shiek, but who cares about Twilight Princess Zelda? Heck, some of the most interesting titles didn't even have her in the game. personally, I think they need to really reinvent aspects of the franchise, as I'm rather tired of the whole formula by now.

I'm not necessarily against a character getting captured, female or otherwise, but the way Zelda does it is somewhat lazy. Maybe I fail to save the princess for once. Maybe Link dies, and Zelda has to carry on without him. Maybe she's sent into exile and learns how to fight. Do whatever you want Nintendo, but do SOMETHING differently, please.

 

[renegade7]

I think the only time that I cared that much about saving her was Skyward Sword when it was actually shown that she was a character I should care about and worry about the safety of. In pretty much all of the other games she's kind of just been...there, doing something, and at some point you need to save her from something.

I would absolutely like to see more of Zelda as a playable character. Maybe a more story-driven Zelda game where we play from the perspectives of multiple characters, or something like that. I really liked in Spirit Tracks where, while the end goal still was to save her, she was actually involved directly in Link's adventure and was a character you regularly interacted with (despite her reservations. I have to admit I laughed out loud when she snapped that the princess simply issuing a command and waiting for the hero to save her was "Something of a family tradition"), and I think given that the last two games have much more greatly emphasized her role in the story that this trend will continue, so maybe we will be seeing a playable Zelda sometime soon.

 

[Grampy_bone]

The flaw in the original argument is the implication that a character that is considered competent or empowered cannot make mistakes, get out-maneuvered, be ambushed, or otherwise be defeated by someone who is more powerful than they are. Indeed, I can't even begin to count the number of games where your strong, empowered, badass main character--male or female--gets bumped on the head in a cutscene, loses their stuff, and then is allowed to escape for some contrived reason. Almost no game pulls this off in a believable way.

So the real question is, why shouldn't Zelda get captured? Who cares? There's no argument you can make that isn't inherently sexist. There's always a bigger fish.

 

[joshuaayt]

I got really excited when it became obvious Zelda was doing her own thing, in Skyward Sword- I thought it'd turn out she was doing her own cool adventure, and fightin' dudes, and being a rad badass. But, no, she was just chilling out with her babysitter, so that wasn't nearly as interesting.

I just want a game where either you play as Zelda (Which clearly isn't going to happen any time soon), or one where Zelda actually helps out significantly on your journey.

When I say help out, I mean "There's 10 orbs of megadeth scattered over the various temples, I'll get these ones, you get those ones, we'll meet up at the end boss".

It'd be cool to have a game where Zelda is on equal- or near equal- footing with Link. She's always either been portrayed as a distant monarch, or a literal goddess. How about a Zelda who thinks you're a huge baby, and is always beating you to objectives?
"Smell ya later!", that sorta thing.

Tetra was probably the closest thing to Gary levels of cool/jerkness, but then she got hit by the princess stick and that all went away, along with her skin tone.

 

[Veylon]

The flaw in the original argument is the implication that a character that is considered competent or empowered cannot make mistakes, get out-maneuvered, be ambushed, or otherwise be defeated by someone who is more powerful than they are. Indeed, I can't even begin to count the number of games where your strong, empowered, badass main character--male or female--gets bumped on the head in a cutscene, loses their stuff, and then is allowed to escape for some contrived reason. Almost no game pulls this off in a believable way.

So the real question is, why shouldn't Zelda get captured? Who cares? There's no argument you can make that isn't inherently sexist. There's always a bigger fish.

It goes back to agency, as mentioned above. Zelda isn't (well, sometimes isn't) an agent in her own right. She isn't there except as a symbol that things aren't right.

The loss of agency is exactly why it's so infuriating when your badass main character performs stupidity via cutscene. You know that you wouldn't do that; why is the game forcing this on you?

There's nothing wrong with her being captured and needing help on it's own. These things happen to the best of us. What goes wrong is that it's presented as a theft. Objects are stolen. Zelda is objectified in the most literal possible sense. She needs to be returned to power in the same way that the Fire Crystal needs to go back to the Fire Temple or the Master Sword needs to be found.

All that really needs fixing is giving Zelda something to do. She may well still need saving, but she doesn't need to literally be locked in a dungeon from beginning to end. Have Link bust her out at the beginning of the third act or have Gannondorf take her down at the end of the first. Have her telepathically advise Link or offer other assistance. Heck, have villagers talk about how much better things were when she was in charge. Anything to breathe some life into her as an active character so she isn't just a female-shaped larceny magnet. Maybe some of the Zelda games are already doing this; she seemed to being doing stuff in the Hyrule Warriors game.

 

[Snotnarok]

That's the issue with Nintendo games in general, they'll alter things slightly to give a fresh take and fans gobble it up. I actually heard "I thought it was clever how they got Zelda this time, it surprised me!"
How about the princess isn't a bloody issue? Or she is the bad guy, or she's helping you, or she's out doing the same thing you are from the other side of the world so you two can meet up, or you play as her!

Then again the fanbase is so against change I've seen threads outraged at the female Link concepts. I enjoyed Hyrule Warriors because Link was hardly the focus. Playing as any of the characters you felt far more strong than Link and like you were able to do more. (Though hardly true since his spin attack is so stupidly over powered)
This kinda is the feeling I've gotten with Twilight Princess as well, Link isn't this mighty hero who has to do all of this alone, Midna is essential to him getting things done. She's also a character that actually has some kind of arc and grows vs the other games. (I haven't finished this game so do not spoil this please.)

Every fan likes to bark at me how great Ocarina of Time is vs any game including other Zelda games. I say bark because they usually freak when I say I don't agree that it's "the best game of all time" so instant fanrage. I think it's fairly subpar in ways, the story is incredibly non-existant, there's not a character in the world to care about except Zelda and maybe the green haired girl. Like you said OP, Zelda was doing some work behind the scenes and was getting things done, then PLOT HAPPENS, come with me. Oh Link just ISN'T worth my time capturing, what could he do ...besides stick a sword that's murdered my face a bunch of times in my face. Yes, the gameplay was fine but weak plot and story means it's not the perfect game, it's just something reviewers are scared to make a note against because they know fan outrage will be high.

Either way, it's a fun series that just could do with some change ...like you said, Zelda not being abducted.