Poll: Should prison inmates be used in pharmaceutical trials?

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BreakfastMan

Scandinavian Jawbreaker
Jul 22, 2010
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Seems to be a simple enough question. Should prison inmates be used in pharmaceutical trials? Should we allow pharmaceutical companies to test out potentially dangerous drugs in prisons where the presence "informed consent" can be questionable, or do the benefits outweigh the risks to the prisoners? Should the prisoners even have a choice in the matter? What do you think o' rabid hordes of the Escapist?
 

Zirat

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May 16, 2009
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I think they should, but only if they are willing.

We dont want forced drug trials that result in tumors and the like... well, maybe we do in some cases, but still. Willingly only would probably be for the best, less likelyhood for a media sh!$storm should it be discovered\announced.
 

Neuromaster

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Mar 4, 2009
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Yes, but the presence of additional watchdogs/oversight/ethics/etc would be appropriate. You also don't want them signing up for 5 trials that interact with one another & end up invalidating one another/hurting the inmate. Their lack of freedom and earning power puts them in a different situation than those of us on the outside.
 

unoleian

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Jul 2, 2008
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What? No.

Wait. What? Absolutely not!

That you even posited the question about whether they should "even have a choice in the matter" appalls me. Prisons and the justice system itself are enough of an inherent problem in and of themselves without turning them into lab-rat factories as well. That's just disgusting.

Fuck pharmaceuticals anyway. A terrible multi-billion dollar business comprised solely of convincing us we have a problem, and marketing hope in a bottle to cure our newly imagined afflictions.
 

Seives-Sliver

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Jun 25, 2008
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I think that it all depends on the criminal themselves, of course if the lesser ones, white-collar and whatnot, give their consent, then sure, why not? With the greater criminals, murders, rapists, and all the rest, they should be given the choice to consent, but the chemicals tested should be more dangerous and whatnot. It would be a broken system to start off with, but if it were polished up and whatnot then it could be a great idea, I mean we're already testing on animals, why not hardcore criminals as well?
 

Staskala

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Sep 28, 2010
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Yeah, I too think that the lack of concentration camps these days is rather saddening.
I mean, why stop at criminals?
There's plenty of other nutcases and extremists, with this amazing concept you can both silence them and make a benefit!

Seriously, the fact that over 50% voted "Yes" is very disturbing.
 

DanDeFool

Elite Member
Aug 19, 2009
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Canid117 said:
Not if the informed consent is questionable.
Agreed.

I don't see any reason why inmates shouldn't be able to sign up for a clinical trial, just like any other patient, but if you're going to shoot them up with Experimental Drug That Might Cure Cancer But Also Might Kill You But We Certainly Hope Not #1127A without telling them what it is and getting their informed consent you're well into Nazi Death Camp territory and speeding fast down the slippery slope.

While I do approve of the death penalty for the most irredeemable of violent criminals, I don't approve of performing dubious medical experimentation on Joe Petty Thug just because he got caught stealing some poor sod's TV set.
 

PurplePlatypus

Duel shield wielder
Jul 8, 2010
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Sure yeah, sink below the level of even some of the worst criminals by pulling dehumanising shit like that.

Now actual informed consent, ok sure.
 

Helmutye

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Sep 5, 2009
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I think it is a very bad idea to create a distinction between prisoners and "real people." People in prison are still humans, still citizens of this country, and still entitled to their rights as human beings. Certain rights are restricted only through due process and trial by jury and all that, but being convicted of a crime does not make you a Slave.

Some people on the Escapist seem to have a rather vindictive attitude towards criminals, and I imagine that when this thread gets more posts some of them will show up. But often times these people only think of murderers and rapists when they think of "criminals." There are quite a few ways to end up in prison, many of them extremely unjust and unfortunate, and to apply the right of the government to conduct medical tests on them is way too close to Nazi Germany for my comfort.

To give an example of how perverted this can get, let's consider another instance where criminals are stripped of their rights: in many states, convicted felons lose the right to vote. Permanently. If you are convicted of a felony, you can never vote again. A lot of people would probably be all for this. Until you realize that in some of those states Destruction of Property becomes a felony once you do more than $250 worth of damage. In other states, shoplifting $100 worth of stuff is a felony. This means that you could permanently lose your right to vote for breaking your buddy's laptop or shoplifting an iPod.

Or take the War on Drugs, the single biggest imprisoner of normal, harmless people. Now, everybody knows that Prosecutors use plea bargins a lot--that is, they offer to reduce charges against people, or even grant them complete immunity, in exchange for their cooperation and for "naming names." There are many cases in the War on Drugs where the DEA has busted a few people in a minor pot dealing ring--harmless, nonviolent people--and then plea bargained with them to place the blame entirely on one poor sap. So if there were 20 people in the ring, and each person had a pound of pot, they would plea bargain to place all of the pot in one person's possession--that would put them over a certain threshold, which would allow the DEA to prosecute for a higher crime and therefore be able to go to the news and report that they had caught a drug kingpin and really served some justice. But lost in there is the fact that one poor idiot with no more pot than anyone else is now in hardcore prison, probably for decades (now, I'm unsure about the amounts here and how they correspond to the actual law, but I think the point stands).

The point is, the law is an imperfect institution, and its failures to deliver justice are many. Why would anybody want to INCREASE the stakes by giving one court the power to turn a human being into a Dr. Mangele victim?
 

LordFisheh

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Dec 31, 2008
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We do realize that prisoners aren't some amorphous blob of total scum, right? The only thing that separates this kind of stuff from outright torture is the fact that it yields potentially useful data. It's not even possible to totally guarantee that it's reasonably 'safe'.

There's also the mandatory 'wrongly convicted' argument. And what about political prisoners. Depending on your opinion, would this be right on someone such as Julian Assange? Yes he could be considered a sex offender, but it can be argued that the charges and evidence have been fabricated. Perhaps a better example are the victims of past outbreaks of anti-communist hysteria, in which 'criminal syndicalism' became an offence and people were sent to prison. Could we use these convicts as test subjects? After all, they were spies and traitors as far as the law was concerned - serious offences.

Prisoners are not a clearly defined group of evil scum that can be treated as subhuman, laws are not moral absolutes (anyone ever been caught speeding?), and these easy ways of thinking only lead to atrocities such as Nazi-style testing on prisoners, blaming -group of your choice here- for the world's problems, and so on.
 

Faladorian

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May 3, 2010
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HankMan said:
As long as they're not testing the Super Solder Serum.
What about the FEV? We don't want prisons full of these:


OT: Only if they are willing. If not, that's not okay. (But for some reason animal rights activists are surprisingly silent when humans are in trouble...)
 

USSR

Probably your average communist.
Oct 4, 2008
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Merkavar said:
didnt the nazis do this sort of thing?
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Glenn Beck might hear you...

OT- If they are willing to? Yes.
Signed verification.

They are humans.
They have rights.
They are still people.
 

bobknowsall

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Aug 21, 2009
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Any particular reason why the "informed consent" of a convicted felon would be questionable? I know there are plenty of lying scumbags in the prison system, but their own leghal consent would be harder to lie about.

OT: Only if it was properly regulated, and it was based on the consent of the prisoners. I'd like it if they received an incentive to do it.

People outside of prisons can take part in pharmaceutical tests, so why not allow prisoners to do it too?
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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Can we just make this clear? Prison is the punishment. Anything on top of that is you fucking with people when you shouldn't be.
 

Merkavar

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Aug 21, 2010
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Staskala said:
Yeah, I too think that the lack of concentration camps these days is rather saddening.
I mean, why stop at criminals?
There's plenty of other nutcases and extremists, with this amazing concept you can both silence them and make a benefit!

Seriously, the fact that over 50% voted "Yes" is very disturbing.
yeah why not extend the testing to mentally handicaped and people with genetic diseases or deformities.

Ich bin gegen die Idee der Verwendung von Gefangenen
 

ZombieGenesis

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Apr 15, 2009
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Agree with the majority, if it's conscented, then fine.
Despite not liking criminals (for more than obvious reasons!) I don't think anyone should be forced into testing.