Poll: Should smokers be denied access to Medicare? (Australian Medicare)

[Jack_Uzi]

I'm a bit tired of all the blogs and articles about people who are so against smokers that their thoughts alone may be even more unhealthy than 2nd hand smoking itself.
The thought of kicking us out of healthcare because of it.
If that's really the way to go, consider that people who do non-stop fast food, live in a big city with lot's of smog (you can say: "move to a healthyer environment!") or just pop pills whenever they feel the slightest bit of pain, are also not healthy. It's all about choices and perspective
I'm a smoker and take non-smokers in big consideration where ever I go (I don't even smoke in my own house if needed).
We also pay lots of taxes on tabacco and alcohol to pay the states treasure and in return sometimes we are nearly seen as evil outlaws.
So all in all, leave people be in what they do, if there are plenty of ways to be self destructive that aren't so obviously visible to the public.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Depends, if they're 15 year old douchebags who smoke because they think it's cool then yeah.

As a 16 year old smoker, I even begin to explain how idiotic and backward that statement really is. You should hang your head in shame.

In case you didn't notice, I specified that statement by adding "who smoke because they think it's cool". If you have other reasons for smoking I'm fine with that.

Well, what if I smoke because I want to be cool? Lets say I just want to be popular, is this such a bad thing? So, people strave to be accepted by everyone around them. Its just human. So, I smoke because I want to be cool. It may be a little idiotic, but it is no reason to deny me health care. After all, it doesnt come down to why you smoke. It comes down to you smoking, paying a shitload of taxes on your smokes and having the right to health care no matter what. Perhaps years of being ridiculed by the "cool" people at school made you say that.

Fine pay less taxes then. But if you're smoking just to be cool you should be reconsidering what "cool" means.

 

[UbarElite]

I presume that there is a more basic question here, which is "Should people who do things or take risks that result in poor health receive free medical care?"

To answer that, I will have to go with they probably should. Mainly because it is difficult to accurately define who would get health care and who wouldn't. For example, if we denied health care to the obese, is that fair to the ones who eat right, exercise often, but end up overweight due to chronic underlying conditions? If we instead focus on behavior instead of results, is it fair to deny care to all who do not exercise or do not eat right, even if a faster metabolism leaves them in healthy shape?

Going to the smokers, while results of smoking are difficult to have if you do not smoke, the habit could exist without severe consequences: some people smoke their entire lives and live for a long time, and die of something unrelated to smoking. Do we deny medical care to them? Do we deny smokers medical care for illness or disease unrelated to smoking? Even if a disease is related to smoking, it may not be caused by it (i.e. non smokers getting lung cancer). Do we deny anyone with lung cancer medical care, or only those who smoke (even if the smoking did not cause the cancer)?

TLR Too vague to accurately define who does and does not get medical care if we deny it based on behavior or health level.

 

[radred]

Oh yeah... here's something... that new 25% tax increase that came in on April 30? The Federal Government announce it would generate $5 BILLION in extra revenue over a 4 year period... or $1.25bn pa (because I don't think after 4 years they're gonna remove the tax)...

So yeah, don't be touching smokers healthcare after THAT bullshit.

i cant help but wonder... do you smoke?

personally while i believe that they should still get healthcare (in the same way somebody who has tried to commit suicide is taken to hospital to have their stomach pumped and/or blood transfusions etc.) i still definitely DO NOT condone it. it is disgusting habit that can affect others, if somebody has asthma and you are smoking in the street, or if you smoke around people constantly eg. family.

also, if anyone smokes and complains of financial hardship i luagh on the inside... and sometimes on the outside too.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Depends, if they're 15 year old douchebags who smoke because they think it's cool then yeah.

As a 16 year old smoker, I even begin to explain how idiotic and backward that statement really is. You should hang your head in shame.

In case you didn't notice, I specified that statement by adding "who smoke because they think it's cool". If you have other reasons for smoking I'm fine with that.

Well, what if I smoke because I want to be cool? Lets say I just want to be popular, is this such a bad thing? So, people strave to be accepted by everyone around them. Its just human. So, I smoke because I want to be cool. It may be a little idiotic, but it is no reason to deny me health care. After all, it doesnt come down to why you smoke. It comes down to you smoking, paying a shitload of taxes on your smokes and having the right to health care no matter what. Perhaps years of being ridiculed by the "cool" people at school made you say that.

Fine pay less taxes then. But if you're smoking just to be cool you should be reconsidering what "cool" means.

/facepalm

Again, you are implying you and only you decide what cool is. Which you dont.

I'm going to post a joke answer and a proper one now.

Joke: Your evidence to the contrary?
Actual answer: Your last post there relies on the same logic, really with the "cool" argument, neither of us can be proven right as "cool" is subjective. Shall we agree to disagree?

 

[WolfThomas]

Yeah sure and while we're at it lets deny fat people, alcoholics and drug users as well /sarcasm.

It's a slippery slope and I don't believe we should discriminate in our treatment of anyone for any reason. Medicare is not free, it's for everyone and paid for by everyone through our taxes.

 

[Googooguru]

Lets just take all their tax money and use it to help non smokers life longer, Capital idea.. Screw those smokers who do they think they are paying taxes and all that crap and then lets round them all up and put them in interment camps for their own protection and to prevent second hand smoke...dumb dumb dumb

you cant deny people rights to medical treatment based on their addiction to a drug that governments refuse to ban even though the health risk are astronomical, especially if they are helping to finance the very thing (medicare) your debating

whats next no Medicare for Gays, how about no medicare for people who eat McDonald or who post dumb ass questions on forums

I do not Smoke, Drink or eat McDonald's by the way

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

Guys!

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE PATHETIC WORDING OF THE POLL!

It should read:

"Should smokers be denied access to Australian Medicare."

Not, "Should smokers be given FREE access to Medicare"

I did not purposely use this poor choice of words,

SORRY!

 

[sephiroth1991]

I don't know if they have a problem and know smoking is the problem but they still smoke, i say fuck them, but if they try to stop i say welcome.

 

[Queen Michael]

No, you can't expect people to be completely healthy all of the time.

 

[Vrach]

Hey all, I've seen a lot of debate about smokers lately in the media (and on these forums!) so it got be wondering, should smokers be denied medicare? By Medicare I mean the Australian medicare, which basically means that all Australian citizens get free access to public hospitals and they get (usually all) of their money back when they visit doctors (GP's).

I am undecided, I mean on one hand they are destroying their bodies, but on the other hand if we say smokers shouldn't be able to, then we might as well say that alcoholics can't, overweight people can't etc.

Are you insane? Denying free health care to people because of an unhealthy habit? You actually just reminded me of Equilibrium I watched a few days ago, cause the kind of overreaction we're talking about here.

And on the "they're destroying their bodies", you do realise the state still pockets cash from that fact right? How hypocritical could you be to make money off something and then deny a state privilege to them, if you think smoking is that bad (and sorry, no, it's not), ban the damn thing instead of thinking putting a bunch of "this will kill you" stickers is actually going to achieve something other than you looking like a hypocrite.

Honestly, I'm just gonna stop here before I invoke a ban by stating how stupid I think this question is by insulting someone. And FYI, no - I'm not a smoker, I hate smoking, I've never smoked in my entire life and I tried to get all the smokers in my family to stop/cut down on smoking several times and still do.

 

[HellbirdIV]

Maybe they should get medicare for everything except conditions -caused- by smoking? (lung cancer, respiratory problems etc)

You don't get free healthcare if you shoot yourself in the foot on purpose either, I think, so same thing, yeah?

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

snip

Are you insane? Denying free health care to people because of an unhealthy habit? You actually just reminded me of Equilibrium I watched a few days ago, cause the kind of overreaction we're talking about here.

And on the "they're destroying their bodies", you do realise the state still pockets cash from that fact right? How hypocritical could you be to make money off something and then deny a state privilege to them, if you think smoking is that bad (and sorry, no, it's not), ban the damn thing instead of thinking putting a bunch of "this will kill you" stickers is actually going to achieve something other than you looking like a hypocrite.

Honestly, I'm just gonna stop here before I invoke a ban by stating how stupid I think this question is by insulting someone. And FYI, no - I'm not a smoker, I hate smoking, I've never smoked in my entire life and I tried to get all the smokers in my family to stop/cut down on smoking several times and still do.

Just so you know, I have no opinion on the topic. I was just curious as to how the Escapist views it. I have no opinion!

 

[Vrach]

Just so you know, I have no opinion on the topic. I was just curious as to how the Escapist views it. I have no opinion!

Sorry, don't take my post as aimed at you mate, didn't mean it to be, it's aimed at that train of thought. I mean every one of us is either really, really boring or partakes in some dangerous action, I mean it's like denying (free) medical care to people who got hit by a car/bus if they were jaywalking, it's just... argh, must resist insults

 

[Cherry Cola]

They should totally be denied it.

I mean, it makes perfect sense!

"Doctor, I have been shot!"

"Do you smoke?"

"Yeah, sometimes, but I don't see how that is relev-"

"NO MEDICARE FOR YOU!"

 

[Mr Companion]

Well of coarse they should be kept out! we wouldn't let Tanks, Jockeys or Hunters in so why should we let Smokers in? All zombies should be kept out in my opinion.

 

[samuraiweasel]

as long as the healthcare provided has nothing whatsoever to do with the effects of smoking, then i dont see why not