Poll: Should there be a black bond?

[stompy]

a black Alladin

Are you talking about Aladdin, from the Disney movie [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(film)] fame? 'Cos he was Arabic, and thus, if we were to follow the original IP's directions, we would have a Middle Eastern actor. Although, an African actor could work as well, since the Islamic empire extended into Northern Africa as well, during the height of its rule, and thus, an African Aladdin could work in canon.

As for a 'black' Bond, as long as he was British, had awesome gadgets, shagged lots'a'women, and had LvL 20 Charisma (in effect, kept true to the characteristics of the character), then I don't see why not. I'm more worried that Daniel Craig doesn't say "Shaken, not stirred" and "Bond, James Bond" in the new films, because that, to me, is worse than having an actor of African descent that does say such things. It's not who that I'm worried about, it's the amount of skill they have as an actor, and whether or not the archetype of Bond is fulfilled by the character.

 

[axia777]

Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

 

[Altorin]

We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

the original Lord of the Rings Cartoon had a native american Aragorn. There's some food for thought.

 

[Jaythulhu]

Are we talking black american or black british? British, I would be fine with, since bond is a codename given to a specific operative, but an american? hell no. Gangsta Bond? good gods. Sean Connery would come out of retirment to cut someone down, Highlander style.

 

[poleboy]

I think a black man would have trouble infiltrating a Russian millitary base... just sayin'. It's the Black Captain America argument all over again.

 

[bad rider]

If the actor was any good, then sure, why not.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

 

[Meangunns]

Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

Please do not add to the poll. I did the poll this way to deal with absolutes. "If done correctly then yes" is subjective. If it was done then the people who are saying yes would lean more towards saying it was done correctly while the ones saying no wouldn't. So an option like that tells us nothing we don't already know.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

Please do not add to the poll. I did the poll this way to deal with absolutes. "If done correctly then yes" is subjective. If it was done then the people who are saying yes would lean more towards saying it was done correctly while the ones saying no wouldn't. So an option like that tells us nothing we don't already know.

I see.

So basically you want people to condense their opinions into a simple binary answer? If you were going to do that, you could at least ask the right question The question you should be asking is "Could there be a black Bond?/ The question of should comes after the possibility has been established.

 

[antipaganda]

I've only read up to page 3 in this thread, so I apologise if this has been said already.

Shaft's blackness is intrinsic to his character. He fights racist bad guys, almost every scene has him beating the shit out of someone for saying something nasty about black people. Luke Cage's blackness is also a deep basis for his entire background, character and motivation.

Bond, however, is not motivated by his ethnicity, but by his tortured origins, and his duty to his country: Britain. His skin colour has absolutely nothing to do with his character or motivation.

His gender certainly does; that can only change if it becomes normal to depict debonair female chauvinists who are nonetheless charming.

Also, I'd like to quote something I couldn't let slide:

"Look at it this way. If we make a black Bond, then why can't we make Bond a Native American spy for the CIA? Hell, why don't we turn James Bond into a promiscuous woman named Jenny Bond? Hell, why don't we turn it on its head and make Bond a Russian spy for the KGB during the Cold War? See what I'm getting at here? If you let one major change like that, then that opens up the possibility of changing the character so much in later iterations that they hardly resemble the original source material."

Essentially, you're talking utter crap. Why on earth would you consider the colour of a man's skin to be anything like as important as his loyalty to his country? I won't accuse you of being a bigot, but I cannot honestly see how it makes the slightest bit of difference.

We are not proposing that James Bond be turned into James Brown, but that, as long as the character's CULTURAL background remains the same, which I agree is essential, his RACIAL background makes no fucking difference.

Finally, stop being so bloody defensive. A black actor will only ever be chosen to play Bond if, like Connery, Brosnan and Craig before him, he is the best man for the job.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

As I recall the opening line from the story in Arabian Nights goes something like...

"There was a little Chinese Boy named Aladdin"

So his race has been wrong from pretty much the get go.

And WERE they to make a black bond, Chitwell Ejioffer would be a stellar choice.
http://www.hbo.com/films/tsunami/img/castandcrew/506x316_chiwetel.jpg

 

[Logan Westbrook]

We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

As I recall the opening line from the story in Arabian Nights goes something like...

"There was a little Chinese Boy named Aladdin"

So his race has been wrong from pretty much the get go.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the story of Aladdin as found in the Arabian Nights. It was a much later addition, stuck in there by the British.

 

[axia777]

Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

No, that is not what I meant at all. Bond was written as a white British man and should stay a white British man, PERIOD.

Just like Superman is a white guy, Blade is a black guy, Bat Man is a white guy, and Rhodes from Iron Man is a black guy. Should we change Rhodes white? And if so why? I mean if we are at it is that ok? How about turning Shaft white? Is that bad? Would black people get offended?

What is this crap of trying to envision every super hero as black some other race than what they were written as? It worked just fine for Nick Fury because MARVEL re-wrote the character for the Ultimates line. That was sanctioned by the people who wrote the character. That and the fact that the old school Fury was from WWII.

Just leave the source material alone.

BTW, it will never happen.

I thought race didn't matter?

It does not. Honoring the source material does. People need to stop trying to re-write perfectly good written characters.

 

[Blind Punk Riot]

Lets make the easter bunny an elephant!

 

[Logan Westbrook]

That and the fact that the old school Fury was from WWII.

Not unlike a certain secret agent I can think of.

 

[Resistance205]

I think, go for it, as long as it worked, and that he was British. (I'm not being racist, surely you know that all Bonds are British?)

Yeah, about that. Pierce Brosnon, the second last Bond was Irish. He was born in Navan which is in Meath. So sorry about that. But not all Bond's are British

Now, to reply to the original topic. No i dont think a black bond will work becasue, Bond is white. Im not racist but i just think Bond should stay the same as he was for years. Thats why i dont really like Daniel Craig as a Bond..he acts like an ass hole and he has blonde hair. He just isint James Bond. No matter how hard he tires, he will never be a Bond to me.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Um... Bond was written as an asshole lest we forget. Casino Royale is fairly true to the book and the original character except there are a bunch of action sequences added in and the movie is updated to fit modern storytelling techniques.