Poll: Should We Execute Our Own Generals?

[Beowulf DW]

I don't really think I understand the question. Are you asking if we should go so far as to execute officers? If so, then I say yes, why not? If they're found guilty, the fact that they're an officer doesn't mean they didn't do it, and it certainly doesn't mean they can get away with it.

I was just thinking it over last night. We have executed the military and political leaders of countries for some of the same torture techniques that the CIA and special forces use, and that certain military officers and civilian officials have authorized. In light of this, shouldn't our own officers and officials be subject to the same laws and punishments?

 

[meatloaf231]

This isn't going anywhere. Nobody is convincing anyone of anything. Closed-mindedness abounds (myself included), and don't try to say it doesn't.

Man I'm glad I went to sleep when I did.

 

[Break]

I'm not certain what has been concluded over the last four pages, so I'm going to point out the things that irritated me and ask if the people who said them still back them.

For torturing POWs? Why? The opposition is doing it to us and there's no way of stopping it. Geneva convention was shirked off years ago, by about 2003 we were the only ones still playing by the rules.

violence is all that is understood in the middle east so whatever works.

I HATE being the good guys. The bad guys walk all over us and treat us like shit, but if we start responding in kind, WE become the bad guys! WHAT THE FUCK! How is that fair?

I agree that torturing civillian POWs is wrong, but focusing on the guys doing it, is just focusing your attention on the wrogn problem....

I assume there's some other stuff, but that's pretty much it. Are there people still thinking that these are at all rational?

Props go to Khedive and Armitage for talking sense, and Alex_P for doing what he does.

 

[werepossum]

I'd say give them every benefit of the doubt, but if there is strong evidence of illegal action then they have to be tried. Note also that this is almost never combat troops, but is almost always rear echelon troops. I don't have a really big problem with what was proved to have been done at Abu Graib, which roughly equates to a fraternity hazing, but you can't allow troops to break such rules, or generals to condone it.

These people by and large are combatants not covered by the Geneva Convention or by commonly accepted rules of war. But that doesn't mean you can torture them any more than you can torture other people not so covered, such as civilians. You can legally execute them, depending on how they were taken and what they have done, but you can't legally torture them. Whether or not you consider water-boarding to be torture is up to you, as opinions can vary; we do it to our own troops, but we do it to train them to resist torture. As to the other stuff alleged, remember that part of jihadi handbooks is, if captured, to claim you were tortured. When someone claims to have been beaten for months and there is no visible damage, I tend to think he's lying.

And I have no objection to hooking up battery cables to a terrorist's testicles if you have reason to believe there's an imminent threat that can be averted, but there must afterward be a court martial and you'd better be able to prove there was a damn good reason. Torture on the grounds that they have general information or can identify other terrorists should not be allowed. I am of course in favor of standard interrogation techniques such as sleep deprivation, loud music, too hot/too cold rooms, and piping in non-stop episodes of "The View".

On second thought, that last one is too inhumane even for terrorists.

EDIT: To Intellectual.Osmosis, thank you for your service. All too often people say essentially "I'm not condemning you, just everything you do and everything you stand for." In my opinion that's just a politically correct way of saying "I'm condemning you."

 

[Alex_P]

Well modern soldiers are pretty much mentaly broken down then rebuilt to follow orders from thhe generals so there not entirely of the hook there and the fact soldeirs are disillusioned these days also adds to the problem.

Now, I'm generally very negative about war stuff. You saw what I said previously in this thread. (Would it surprise you to learn that I work in the defense industry?)

I don't think that's a fair judgement of the US military. Modern Western militaries' concept of duty is about much more than just blind obedience. Soldiers aren't expected to do just anything that an immediate superior commands; it's not in the military's best interest to have that.

-- Alex

 

[Unknower]

Well, if the generals have supported torturing prisoners or turned a blind eye, they should be judged for it. If they didn't know about it, they shouldn't be judged for it.

Cops shouldn't need to prove a suspects guilt, hell they should be able to gun them down where they stand.

"All suspects are guilty, period. Otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, would they?"

 

[Beowulf DW]

Well modern soldiers are pretty much mentaly broken down then rebuilt to follow orders from thhe generals so there not entirely of the hook there and the fact soldeirs are disillusioned these days also adds to the problem.

Now, I'm generally very negative about war stuff. You saw what I said previously in this thread. (Would it surprise you to learn that I work in the defense industry?)

I don't think that's a fair judgement of the US military. Modern Western militaries' concept of duty is about much more than just blind obedience. Soldiers aren't expected to do just anything that an immediate superior commands; it's not in the military's best interest to have that.

-- Alex

I don't think that soldiers are broken down to be mindless robots, but I think an argument can be made that recruits are mentally broken down so that they can be rebuilt as soldiers. In training, certain instincts are broken down, like the instinct to run from danger, or the instinct not to shoot at an opponent (there was an article abou that a few months ago).

The only reason I'm saying this is that people seem to confuse the breakdown mentioned above with the breakdown of a soldier's ability to think independently. I totally agree with you that this is simply not the case.