Poll: Should we search for Alien life?
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Assumption isn't evidence.MaxTheReaper said:
There is life on this planet, why does that mean there must be life somewhere else? Why? Give me something that would stand up in a laboratory that can be verifiably tested rather than just "space is big man".
No Way! I've watched Scrapped Princess I know what happens when you travel too far. Last thing the human race needs is to be ruled by robots WE created.
It is a fact of history on this planet that a weaker civilization will be subjugated by the more powerful civilization that finds them. Without experience in the matter in question (extra-terrestrial civilizations), we must assume, for the safety of the planet Earth and its inhabitants, that history on other planets went about the same way, the weak being subjugated by the strong.
If that is truly the case, then why would we, who have no power outside of the planet, want to invite or search for extra-terrestrials that have the technological prowess to journey the stars and could possibly be dangerous or hostile? I propose that we hold off on exploring outer space or searching for aliens until we can defend ourselves accordingly, and when we do attempt to leave this planet to make contact with others, we do so in a Diplomatic fasion first and foremost. "Different" does not always mean "Dangerous".
If that is truly the case, then why would we, who have no power outside of the planet, want to invite or search for extra-terrestrials that have the technological prowess to journey the stars and could possibly be dangerous or hostile? I propose that we hold off on exploring outer space or searching for aliens until we can defend ourselves accordingly, and when we do attempt to leave this planet to make contact with others, we do so in a Diplomatic fasion first and foremost. "Different" does not always mean "Dangerous".
Because creation of life on earth was an accident, a really small chance, million times smaller than the chance of winning lottery.cuddly_tomato said:
But thanks to the size of the universe, it is like playing with billions of lottery tickets.
The only problem is to find em...
Yup, humans are curious creatures, constantly searching for the horizon, and then the next, and then the next, etc etc. I'de like to know if there is alien life, so yea, lets look. At least better then sitting still and doing nothing.sneak_copter said:
This is the problem - you are basing your assumptions on other assumptions. The fact is nobody knows if life started by chance, was deliberate, or even what life actually is. If you want to follow pure scientific reductionism to its conclusion then life is a chemical reaction which has not yet resolved itself. But even then there is no real proof it was an accident, and attempts to actually create life (not organic chemicals, but actual life) have thus far failed.I3uster said:
All you have done there is take a step back from the assumptions earlier onto another assumption. There really isn't a good reason to believe in alien life, and equally there isn't a good reason to disbelieve it either. It is simply a mystery awaiting discovery. I do believe the SETI programs are going to discover jack-shit though. Best plan is to scrap them and accelerate the various space exploration programs. Get a whole bunch of shuttles up into space and build a REALLY REALLY MASSIVE super-telescope that will let us actually view other systems and possibly see planets in them. We might have more of an answer then. Sitting about waiting for possibly radio signals (which we mightn't even recognize even if we get them) will do little except drain resources.
No. I think if there is intelligent life elsewhere, there's a damn good reason it hasn't contacted us yet. Do I believe that somewhere in the billions of planets, stars, and galaxies that there could possibly be some form of life? Yes, but would we want to piss it off with our petty trivialities? Plus there are already too many mysteries on our own little mudball to leave untouched. Perhaps in a few hundred or thousand years when technology and people (hopefully) are advanced enough to take our baby steps into the vast unknown (current space programs are more like a baby's crawl... I'm stretching the metaphor aren't I?), but as of now, we already have too much on our plate.
I don't think we should. It'd be a lot of money just for closure, money that desperately needs to be spent somewhere else.
On the other hand, in Nelson's words "we gotta nuke something."
On the other hand, in Nelson's words "we gotta nuke something."
In these tough times, with billions and even trillions of dollars causing concerns, I understand the 14 million spent on SETI is unbearable (a whopping 0.000545% of the 2.568 trillion in tax receipts from 2007's budget). If the ~5c/year it costs each taxpayer is to much to bear, I'm willing to shoulder the burden for at least 400 people's worth, should they prefer their nickel go to somewhere else.
Still, why do it? An example from SETI's own <a href='http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=558#anchor311094' target=_blank>site: "There are many reasons, including such practical considerations as the technological spinoff. The signal processing techniques used for Project Phoenix have already been applied to the detection of breast cancer." Practicality is great, but remember that it's built upon a foundation of knowledge that must be discovered first. If you never discover a thing, how can you conceive of its uses?
Again, the cost to us is tiny (who here has never wasted a dollar in 20 years?), we still get practical benefits from their research, and the potential for a breakthrough of stunning proportions is non-zero. The potential for it would be higher if we spent more, but, as we've seen already, what we spend on it now is far, far, too much.
Still, why do it? An example from SETI's own <a href='http://www.seti.org/Page.aspx?pid=558#anchor311094' target=_blank>site: "There are many reasons, including such practical considerations as the technological spinoff. The signal processing techniques used for Project Phoenix have already been applied to the detection of breast cancer." Practicality is great, but remember that it's built upon a foundation of knowledge that must be discovered first. If you never discover a thing, how can you conceive of its uses?
Again, the cost to us is tiny (who here has never wasted a dollar in 20 years?), we still get practical benefits from their research, and the potential for a breakthrough of stunning proportions is non-zero. The potential for it would be higher if we spent more, but, as we've seen already, what we spend on it now is far, far, too much.
No, we f*cked up this planet and the least we can do is let aliens live like they want to (on a clean planet)
I definitely believes in life on other planets, but I doubt any of them are close enough for a viable communication transaction. Also, if this other species experiences evolution like us, than I would predict that if we were ever going to come in contact with other life forms it would be: 1. Their primitive animals, something like dinosaurs; 2. They've blown the shit out of themselves through nuclear war; 3. their a highly advance people that have much better intergalactic travel then we have so why look for them when they might find us?
True, but don't forget about deduction. Sure we don't know the answer, but that doesn't equal knowing jack shit ;-) And don't forget (but this is more directed to I3uster), that chemistry is fár from a lottery; if you put certain molecules under certain circumstances toghether, they will make a certain reaction. Repeat everything, and you'll end up with the same reaction.cuddly_tomato said:
FYI, we already have space-telescopes looking at exo-planets [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAWMa_YEuKI], and it's quite an old telescope as well
Heck, even ground telescopes are looking for exo-planets, and not without success. The counter stands on 228 planets [http://exoplanets.org/] actually, even sporting a póssible candidate for harboring alien life [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_d]. There are also space missions planned, and already operating, regarding the search of exo-planets and even life. I'll post a little list (directly from wikipedia ):COROT (launched in 2006, exo-planet project) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COROT]
Kepler Mission (scheduled for this year, exo-planet project) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler_Mission]
PEGASE (scheduled for 2010-2012, Jupiter-like exo-planet project) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEGASE]
Space Interferometry Mission (scheduled for 2015-2016, Earth-like exo-planet project) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Interferometry_Mission]
New Worlds Mission (scheduled for 2013, exo-planet project) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Worlds_Mission
Terrestial Planet Finder (no launch schedule yet, Earth-like exo-planet project): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Planet_Finder
And last but DEFINATLY not least, the Darwin Mission (scheduled for 2013, alien life and Earth-like exo-planets project): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(ESA)
So yup, SETI is hopelessly antiquated, and more like a symbol just like that golden disc we send with that space probe in the 70's. Exo-planet research is indeed our best shot, ESA and NASA fully realised that, hence the little list. You're lagging behind the facts my man, hehe ;-)
Edit: seems that there is a limit on hyperlinks, can't get the last couple one's straight. O well, then this will have to do.
Those of you advocating giving up human advancement out into the universe puzzle me. Is where we are so great, and the world so comfortable, that we should strive to maintain the status quo? For those that speak of the opposite, that we've screwed things up so badly we should never leave: why then continue? If we do not go forward, if we do not strive for anything better, then we face only stagnation or decline, and why should we embrace that?
Are we to sit here and sulk as a collective species? Do we discard all that we hope and dream for every time we stumble? Retreat into our shell at life's cruelties and fade into obscurity? Would it not be far better to pick ourselves up and continue trying to be, if nothing else, an example of determination to those that follow; generations that can build upon what we accomplished in spite of the hardship we faced? What we learn on the way may help us better deal with the problems we face than stopping ever would.
Are we to sit here and sulk as a collective species? Do we discard all that we hope and dream for every time we stumble? Retreat into our shell at life's cruelties and fade into obscurity? Would it not be far better to pick ourselves up and continue trying to be, if nothing else, an example of determination to those that follow; generations that can build upon what we accomplished in spite of the hardship we faced? What we learn on the way may help us better deal with the problems we face than stopping ever would.