Poll: So About Killzone...

[The Raw Shark]

I've been going over some things and while I think quite a few of the posts out of my very small amount being based off of how much I hate BioWare for Inquisition and Shadow of Revan, I've been playing Killzone 3 again and after realizing what happens in Shadow Fall....I really don't want Guerrilla Games to EVER make another game out of this franchise.

While I think I've just unleashed a floodgate by simply saying Killzone because a majority of places I go it's almost immediately shat on(I really don't care about any of that "Halo Killer" bullcrap) hear me out.

I'm playing through the game and while I do feel a BIT for the main characters in that all of them are essentially complete jerk-offs who I have no obligation to really care about, I can at least see that they are struggling with what they're doing and can partly appreciate their presence.

On the other hand while looking at the Helghast I'm feeling downright infuriated by how much they still get the shaft up till Shadow Fall.

Okay so first the galactic trading corporations act like dickwads and force countless people to be damned on a planet with a terrible atmosphere that will most definitely kill them all, essentially the ISA being the Nazis here, and then by the end of Killzone 3 they NUKE THEIR FREAKING PLANET.

I mean yes the leaders of the Helghast were awful people but that doesn't mean every soldier and civilian was as well.

Keeping that in mind I suspected that in Shadow Fall they wouldn't jam us in to ANOTHER jackass for the ISA AGAIN, but there it is for the fourth freaking time. AND YET AGAIN THE HELGHAST ARE VILLAINS.

I don't care if you made them some sort of "Special Evil Extremists" of the whole bunch. Their PLANET was NUKED, a planet NONE OF THEM wanted to be on in the first place and now they are left stuck with the very people that did it and complained just because they existed.

They had a golden opportunity to have us play as a Helghast instead and have them personally work to stop said extremists. Something I've pretty much NEVER seen portrayed for anything involving former villains. The insult to injury for me was when they pretty much made the Helghan sidekick for the main-character a half-breed instead.

And no I do not count this criticism for Mercenaries but still apply that it was a mostly ISA centered game if anything.

I don't know if anyone else liked it by I certainly didn't.

What does everyone here think? Don't make a new Killzone again? Do one but more playing as a Helghast? I can't decide myself honestly

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Okay, this is something I don't understand. The Helghast are JUST as much to blame as the ISA, if not more so, and yet everyone seems to think that they are victims. They're not.

The first war started because Helghan Industries got greedy. They had some of the richest planets in the galaxy, and when the UNC and Earth said, "Hey, you need to pay your share," they said, "Nope!" and threatened to leave Earth rule. The UNC wasn't having that, and thus the first war started. Helghan Industries got stomped, yes, but what did they think was going to happen? It'd be like if an oil-rich state threatened to leave the U.S. and take its oil with it. Of course they're going to get stomped, and of course the people who where in charge of the rebellion are going to be punished. You don't get to start a war and then just think you'll be okay once it's over.
After the war, Vekta was given over to the ISA because Helghan Industries was toast. It's like how the conquering army sends in troops to keep the country stable. However, Helghast rebels were having none of that and started committing terrorist attacks on Earth citizens on Vekta, resulting in the Earth-backed Vekta government coming down hard on the Helghast population. It was an escalating situation that BOTH sides were to blame for.

Finally, the Helghast CHOSE to leave Vekta. They felt they were being treated unfairly, and they were in a lot of cases, but they forget to mention that they were murdering innocent people too. They basically said, "We're leaving. You're treating us like crap!"
"Fine, beat it. At least our people will be safe." Could the ISA have helped them relocate better? Yes, but again, feelings weren't exactly warm on either side.

This happened nearly 100 years before the first Killzone. The Helghast have been carrying this grudge for that long.


So when the Helghast invade Vekta a century later, all the people living there have done NOTHING wrong. Saying the Helghast are victims at this point is like saying the Nazis were victims of the unfair deal Germany got at the end of World War I. Yes, Helghan was treated poorly, but the second you launch an invasion with the sole intent of KILLING everyone on a planet--because we saw that's what they were doing, just gunning down anyone they could find--you're claims of being a victim go out the window. It would be like the British launching an invasion of the U.S. today, gunning down anyone they could find, all while saying, "We're taking back our land!"
So of course the ISA is going to respond and invade Helghan, just like the rest of the world invaded Germany. And as for the nuke, it wasn't like the ISA did it on purpose. The Helghast were all set to launch an attack on Earth--not Vekta, Earth!--and use that weapon. The ISA forces went in to stop that from happening. They blew up the ship carrying the weapon, and the resulting chain reaction carried over to the next ship and the next and then down to the planet. It wasn't like Sev stood over the button and smiled as he pushed it, like so many people seem to think happened. He had to stop that ship because it was too dangerous, and if Stahl was allowed to land, he'd get right back up and launch the attack. I highly doubt Sev knew what was going to happen when he blew that ship up. It was tragic for sure, but if the Helghast hadn't built a weapon designed--and with every intention to USE--to destroy an entire planet, then it could have been avoided.

What would you have the ISA do? Allow the Helghast to go Earth? Try to talk them down? We saw that when the executed prisoners on live TV that they, or at least the people in charge and calling all the shots, don't care about anyone who isn't Helghast. That bomb was them putting a knife against Earth's throat, with every intent of slitting it, but in the resulting struggle, the knife ended up lodged in them instead.
Did the Helghast get dealt a bad card? Yes, but it's partly their fault. Could the ISA have been a bit nicer in retribution? Again, yes, but it wasn't like the Helghast were making a good case for going easy on them.

Both sides are messed up, and the hate between them has been going so long that it's hard to just step away from it, but we see in Shadowfall that people are trying. The problem is that there are people on both sides who still want to see the fight continue.

As for another game, I'm not sure. My problem with the franchise is that it's never the game that the trailers make it out to be. The trailers make it look like you're going to be in the middle of a huge firefight, one soldier among many, but the games themselves give you about two or three missions like that and then, surprise! You're by yourself for the rest of the game, or with a small number of unkillable--and therefore useless--allies. I think there could be enough story left for another game, especially one set from the Helghast side like at the end of Shadow Fall, but it would need to be about stopping extremist, both on the ISA and Helghan sides, and not about the Helghast trying to invade again.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

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I think it's a sign of a good story if there is able to be a discussion about who the REAL bad guys are and the answer isn't the guy who look like Space Nazi's.
Still, from what I've gathered, the true "Villains" of the series is the United Colonial Nations, the Government of earth who's shitty treatment of all parties involved lead to this mess.

From the Wiki [http://killzone.wikia.com/wiki/United_Colonial_Nations]

The UCN relies on all of its colonial resource support by taxing them a fraction of their resources such as food and minerals. Any attempts to resist are met with overwhelming force as resource-depleted Earth cannot afford to have its flow of vital commodities halted for any prolonged period of time, otherwise Earth's population would starve. To this effect the UCN can be considered a tyrant, its force of use is overwhelming and final.

On top of that, back in what was called the Platinum Age, The Helghan Corperation [http://killzone.wikia.com/wiki/Helghan_Corporation] actually purchased the entire planet the UCN sent them out to mine in their name:

The Helghan Administration's taxes on commercial activities and profit from mining operations are poured more and more into the lives of their people, but a large portion of their money is stockpiled for emergency purposes. In 2155, this stockpile reached a level to where the Helghan Administration made a bold offer to the UCN to buy Alpha Centauri and the rights to level taxes and construct a fleet. Due to the UCN's financial situation, this offer was accepted and Alpha Centauri was completely under the control of the Helghan Administration.

Until 2190, Alpha Centauri went through an economic boom under the control of the Helghan Administration. Alpha Centauri's importance as a hub-system gave the Helghan Administration the opportunity to tax all ships going through the system, on top of the considerable income from trade and re-fueling. A clause allowing Alpha Centauri based companies to be exempt from this tax ends up causing many Sol-based corporations to move to Alpha Centauri, increasing the Helghan Administration's prestige. The shipyards orbiting Helghan also became the largest of its kind outside of Sol.

Problem was, they were a victim of their own success:

The UCN notices this and begins to worry about the Helghan Administration's stranglehold on the economy and any autonomy demands other colonies might demand. They also become frustrated that the Helghan Administration is profiting off colonial endeavors that the UCN itself has underwritten. The UCN orders a massive increase of the UCA's capabilities, creating large troop transports and new UCA Navy ships able to blast through any local ISA fleets and control dissent in the colonies. The UCN also creates new taxes and regulations on space travel and shipping, which ends up revoking the Helghan Administration's right to a fleet and right to levy their own taxes.

The Helghan Administration refuses this, but agrees to enter into talks with the UCN to resolve the issue. However, on the urging of powerful individuals and corporations, they decide not to budge on the critical issues of tariffs and self-defense, and the talks soon fail.

In 2199, the Helghan Administration declares Alpha Centauri an independent entity, beginning the First Extrasolar War.

Which then lead to the centuries of abuse the Helghan suffered though.
So basically, while both sides have been shitty people, in the end, it was the UCN that fired the first shot and brewed the first batch of Bad Blood that lead to the events of the series.

Gotta admit, it's a neat bit of lore, ain't it?

Edit: Forgot an important part.

 

[The Raw Shark]

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Gotta admit, it's a neat bit of lore, ain't it?

A neat bit of lore indeed

Thank you for the added information!

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Well that's certainly something I'd consider but as Diablo1099 stated it was the UCN that started it. And I will add that Helghan was NOT a good planet at all to get stuck on.

 

[Mutant1988]

If they make another game like Killzone Mercenary with co-op, I'd be all over that.

Story wise, I could go for them dropping the interstellar conflict thing and focusing on smaller conflicts, with the ultimate villains being the actual villain of the series - The authorities of Earth. They're the ones to blame for all the misfortune suffered by the ISA and the Helghast.

But here's the problem with having someone other than the Helghast as villains - It's completely impossible to make a villain that's cooler and more menacing looking than the Helghast.

 

[Hawki]

I've only played KZ1, Liberation, and KZ2, but didn't Shadow Fall actually demonstrate that the helghast aren't all bad, and that the ISA/UCN can generate its own dickery as well? Because if anything, Shadow Fall feels like a natural slide into making the helghast protagonists, given that you control Echo at the very end.

But yes, I'd like to see more Killzone games.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

A neat bit of lore indeed

Thank you for the added information!

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Well that's certainly something I'd consider but as Diablo1099 stated it was the UCN that started it. And I will add that Helghan was NOT a good planet at all to get stuck on.

Aye, the ISA are only as much to blame as the US Military is for the actions of their government but in the end, like a lot of the conflict in the Middle East: Bad Blood leads to Bad Blood and the only cure is for people to move past holding grudges to try and come to a peaceful solution, as hard as it might be.
And that's how the Helghast went from a rich corporation to the violent masked hoard we know them as today.

*Closes story book*

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I would like them too, because I have never played any of them. Except Shadowfall, for all of 5 minutes. It was just so hard to control, it felt like there was a third of second delay between your actions and your characters actions.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

The most generic shallow console shooter? no thanks

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

I fucking hate having to play first-person shooters with a controller, so no, please, no more Killzone. I want them to make games that work better with a controller. Now, if Sony finally decided to make a good controller, then maybe. But they won't. They'll keep using the same eighteen year old design forever.

FPS can be best played with keyboard and mouse. i agree however thier Horrizon zero down doesnot looks very good at all.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

I fucking hate having to play first-person shooters with a controller, so no, please, no more Killzone. I want them to make games that work better with a controller. Now, if Sony finally decided to make a good controller, then maybe. But they won't. They'll keep using the same eighteen year old design forever.

You know, a lot of their fans (like myself) can't even use an Xbone controller. I love the PS4 controller, and do just fine with it in FPS games.

 

[Dragonlayer]

How the hell could you have Killzone without the glorious Helghast? That's like making a Mass Effect game with just humans, or any Fantasy RPG with the only enemy being irrelevant bandits. They are the face, body and soul of that series and taking them out would simply be madness, particularly when Shadow Fall has FINALLY hinted at a playable Helghast campaign for the next game. One hopes the developers will allow us to don our Black Hand hoods and exterminate the Vektan filth for their unforgivable crimes, but I'll be content with *merely* a campaign set entirely behind those glowing orange goggles. Given the enormous sequel bait of Shadow Fall's ending, I imagine the particulars of said campaign would work best being divided in half: one from the perspective of a regular Helghast soldier caught up in the action as the cold war finally goes hot, and the other playing as Echo trying to take down extremists as the OP said and bring the war to a non-genocidal end (boo!).

Ooooh, just remembered what they could do for a radical yet not-so-radical change to the franchise: make the next game entirely about that unbelievably awesome WW1 comic you collect in Shadow Fall!